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#569547 - 01/07/06 06:30 PM Un Sospiro Fingering
Linkxero Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/07/06
Posts: 3
Loc: Regina Saskatchewan Canada
Hi, ok, just started un sospiro and im wondering what you do for the fingering in measure 9, im sure people do it differently, so that would be awsome if you could post how you do it.

Oh and just to verify that I wont run into any proplems, for the first part I play the first three notes going up with the left hand and the next four with the right and the top not with the left, is that good?

Thanks for your help, and it's good to be a part of this forum.

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#569548 - 01/07/06 07:24 PM Re: Un Sospiro Fingering
BruceD Online   content
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Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 18822
Loc: Victoria, BC
Linkxero :

Welcome to the forum!

I don't agree with your fingering for the opening bars, although you may have small hands, which might justify your fingering.

I take the first four notes (Db Ab Db F) with the LH, and the remaining notes with the RH. I see no need to do cross-hand fingering in the opening accompaniment figure, and I think there's less of a chance of the top Ab standing out from the arpeggiated figure if it's played with the RH.

Similarly, in bar 9 :

LH = 5,3,2,1; RH = 1, 2, 3, 5, with the melody notes : Gb with LH, F with RH and C with LH.
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#569549 - 01/07/06 08:24 PM Re: Un Sospiro Fingering
8ude Offline
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Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 2050
I agree with Bruce - for the beginning try to hit 4 notes with the LH and then the other 4 notes in the upward arpeggio with the RH. Though the way you have it is not too bad, just make sure not to emphasize the top Ab until the real melody starts.

Re/ bar 9, Bruce's suggestion is the fingering I use and it works fine.
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#569550 - 01/08/06 07:31 PM Re: Un Sospiro Fingering
Linkxero Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/07/06
Posts: 3
Loc: Regina Saskatchewan Canada
Ok, thanks, so for the first part do you have to sort of 'roll' your left hand to reach the first 4 notes? because I can't reach the first 4 notes(at the same time), oh and does anyone here play it like I do and what do you do for measure 9?

Thanks again

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#569551 - 01/08/06 07:37 PM Re: Un Sospiro Fingering
8ude Offline
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Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 2050
Unless you've got really big hands, you'll need to move your hand to be able to hit those notes in the LH. Use 5-3-2-1.
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#569552 - 01/09/06 09:24 AM Re: Un Sospiro Fingering
BruceD Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 18822
Loc: Victoria, BC
 Quote:
Originally posted by Linkxero:
Ok, thanks, so for the first part do you have to sort of 'roll' your left hand to reach the first 4 notes? because I can't reach the first 4 notes(at the same time), oh and does anyone here play it like I do and what do you do for measure 9?

Thanks again [/b]
Your question makes me wonder if you are trying to hold down the notes in the LH. Since the arpeggio is composed of 16th notes, it is not necessary to hold them down. Furthermore, the sustain of the arpeggio's individual notes is done by the damper pedal.

Regards,
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#569553 - 01/09/06 09:55 AM Re: Un Sospiro Fingering
sevenfootgrand Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/07/05
Posts: 35
I've done LH: 5,3,2,1 as well but ended up (somewhat unconsciously) playing it 5,2,1,2. It's kind of a rolling/rotational motion - combination arm/wrist/fingers. Anyway, I have large hands but ended up finding this technique to more inherently more relaxed. Just another idea to try.

The section I had to think about comes a few pages later - don't have the score in front of me, but it's the fast series of repeated arpeggios w/ both hands - tried several techniques to get the right sort of light/transparent sound at a high speed. Spent most of my practice time on that piece sorting out that one page!

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#569554 - 01/09/06 02:48 PM Re: Un Sospiro Fingering
Contrapunctus Offline
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Registered: 04/08/05
Posts: 808
Loc: Whittier, California
Oh no, I'm afraid that neither of you are correct. Have you gone over this piece with your teachers?
You play the first four notes in the LH, the next three notes in the RH and that very last note that forms the melody in the LH. You will need to cross over for that. the notes of the nelody that come in between the arpeggios you play with your RH, though. On the second page when the melody notes are eighth -note octaves, you play them all with RH and the arpeggios entirely with LH.
Also, you do not keep your fingers down on the arpeggios. Use the pedal and let your hand follow the contour of notes for the smoothest possible performance.
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#569555 - 01/10/06 12:46 AM Re: Un Sospiro Fingering
BruceD Online   content
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Loc: Victoria, BC
Contrapunctus :

I don't know who the "both" of us are who are wrong in your opinion, but if you will go back and read my first post on this thread, I was talking about the opening two measures before the melody begins when I said : "I take the first four notes (Db Ab Db F) with the LH, and the remaining notes with the RH. I see no need to do cross-hand fingering in the opening accompaniment figure , and I think there's less of a chance of the top Ab standing out from the arpeggiated figure if it's played with the RH.

It's an entirely different matter beginning at bar three where, starting on beat 2, the melody alternates between LH and RH for each note. It's even so clearly marked in the scores that I have(upper stave = LH, RH, LH, RH, etc.) that I thought it was clear we weren't talking about bars 3 and onward.

Regards,
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#569556 - 01/10/06 10:06 AM Re: Un Sospiro Fingering
sevenfootgrand Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/07/05
Posts: 35
Since I might be the other incorrect person, let me clarify my earlier post. I was just throwing out an alternative LH fingering for measure 9 (Linkxero's original question).

For the sake of Linkxero - who is by now probably totally confused by all this: I wouldn't call it incorrect but Contrapunctus' description of playing the octave eighth notes with the right hand (only) on page two is not conventional. I have one score (Hinson) with specific notation to continue alternating hands through the octaves passage.

On the other hand, whatever works, works.

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#569557 - 01/10/06 11:45 AM Re: Un Sospiro Fingering
BruceD Online   content
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Registered: 05/26/01
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Loc: Victoria, BC
I have to agree with sevenfootgrand's last comment, too. I would agree that it's quite unconventional to play the broken octave melody with RH only. In my scores it's clearly marked to alternate LH / RH for this section, which is totally consistent with the first manifestation of the melody. I have also seen this played several times by pianists of various levels of competence, and they have all - to my recollection - alternated hands when playing the broken octaves.

My only question at that point in the score, when the LH plays the broken octaves is: do you use 3,2 as the LH fingering consistently throughout this section?

This is one of those times when it would be so satisfying to be all grouped around the same piano discussing and demonstrating, wouldn't it?

Regards,
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#569558 - 01/10/06 12:28 PM Re: Un Sospiro Fingering
Hakki Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 3277
My edition (Universal-Edition Nr.5849.5981.5940, Herausgegeben von Ignaz Friedman, my German is not good so someone might translate this) also shows the eighth octaves as alternating between hands and suggests two different fingerings for the left hand broken octaves as 3-2 or 5-2 respectively. Though it is not stated here if I remember correctly, 3-2 was actually Liszt's fingering.
So, I concur with what BrudeD and sevenfootgrand has said and I have to disagree with Contrapunctus.

Regards,
Hakki.
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#569559 - 01/10/06 04:12 PM Re: Un Sospiro Fingering
Contrapunctus Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/08/05
Posts: 808
Loc: Whittier, California
Yes, I know the fingering in the book states to continue altering RH and LH in the octave section. However, I have found it easier to play it the other way. Yes, I continue to use 2,3 fingering throughout.
Sorry, I did not know that you were speaking about the first line only and not the entir first page.
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#569560 - 01/10/06 04:38 PM Re: Un Sospiro Fingering
Linkxero Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/07/06
Posts: 3
Loc: Regina Saskatchewan Canada
Haha,im not entirely confused :p But thanks for all your input I'v started playing the base notes 5321 and its working fine so thanks.

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#2378524 - 01/27/15 12:56 AM Re: Un Sospiro Fingering [Re: Linkxero]
Tony Romo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/14/09
Posts: 81
Try 5121 to start the measure. That eliminates the akward stretching.

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#2378533 - 01/27/15 01:55 AM Re: Un Sospiro Fingering [Re: Linkxero]
Michael Sayers Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/13
Posts: 2212
Loc: Stockholms län, Sverige
Easy solution here!

measure 8 has the D-flat major chord arpeggiation - 5 3 2 1 l.h., 1 2 4(or 3) 5 r.h. - the left hand finishes with a 3 finger on the A-flat.

The right hand comes OVER the l.h. and plays with finger 3 the C that begins measure nine.

Then the A-natural E-flat F A-natural are: l.h. 5 3 2 1 (never mind that the second A-natural is on the next staff up)

Then the E-flat F A-natural are: r.h. 2 3 5

The left hand comes over to play the high G-flat with a 3 finger

Then the descending A-flat F E-flat A natural are: r.h. 5 3 2 1

Then the F E-flat A natural are: l.h. 1 2 5

Then the low A-natural is a 5 with the l.h. The simultaneous high F is a 5 with the r.h.

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#2378534 - 01/27/15 02:00 AM Re: Un Sospiro Fingering [Re: Linkxero]
BruceD Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 18822
Loc: Victoria, BC
Is it not possible, in the nine years since this thread was initiated and discussed, that the OP may have found the solution to the fingering? S/he can't be that slow in learning! Moreover, the OP hasn't even posted here since the three posts s/he made on this thread in 2006.

Sheesh!


Edited by BruceD (01/27/15 02:11 AM)
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#2378539 - 01/27/15 02:23 AM Re: Un Sospiro Fingering [Re: BruceD]
Michael Sayers Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/13
Posts: 2212
Loc: Stockholms län, Sverige
Originally Posted By: BruceD
Is it not possible, in the nine years since this thread was initiated and discussed, that the OP may have found the solution to the fingering? S/he can't be that slow in learning! Moreover, the OP hasn't even posted here since the three posts s/he made on this thread in 2006.

Sheesh!

This is the second time recently I've been caught out by a thread that is back from its eternal repose! grin

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#2378683 - 01/27/15 12:05 PM Re: Un Sospiro Fingering [Re: Michael Sayers]
BruceD Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 18822
Loc: Victoria, BC
Originally Posted By: Michael Sayers
Originally Posted By: BruceD
Is it not possible, in the nine years since this thread was initiated and discussed, that the OP may have found the solution to the fingering? S/he can't be that slow in learning! Moreover, the OP hasn't even posted here since the three posts s/he made on this thread in 2006.

Sheesh!

This is the second time recently I've been caught out by a thread that is back from its eternal repose! grin


Proof, perhaps, that some repose may not be eternal! smile

Cheers!
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BruceD
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Estonia 190

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#2378809 - 01/27/15 05:45 PM Re: Un Sospiro Fingering [Re: Linkxero]
Tony Romo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/14/09
Posts: 81
There may be other people besides the OP that have problems with this measure and google this thread,..

and I think my solution might be easiest.

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#2378811 - 01/27/15 05:52 PM Re: Un Sospiro Fingering [Re: Tony Romo]
Michael Sayers Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/13
Posts: 2212
Loc: Stockholms län, Sverige
Originally Posted By: Tony Romo
There may be other people besides the OP that have problems with this measure and google this thread,..

and I think my solution might be easiest.

It isn't.

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#2378834 - 01/27/15 06:34 PM Re: Un Sospiro Fingering [Re: BruceD]
Damon Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6413
Loc: St. Louis area
Originally Posted By: BruceD
Moreover, the OP hasn't even posted here since the three posts s/he made on this thread in 2006.


He probably got frustrated and quit playing. I use 5-2-1-2 for lh in bar 9 myself but I like Mike's idea of taking the C with the right hand. 5-3-2-1 is just to error prone for some of us.
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#2378841 - 01/27/15 06:48 PM Re: Un Sospiro Fingering [Re: Linkxero]
Polyphonist Online   content
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 8401
Loc: New York City
You can also just cheat and jump with 5-5. wink
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Polyphonist

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#2378843 - 01/27/15 06:58 PM Re: Un Sospiro Fingering [Re: Polyphonist]
Damon Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6413
Loc: St. Louis area
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
You can also just cheat and jump with 5-5. wink


I've done that before but it made me feel dirty.
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Horowitz was awesome!

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#2378849 - 01/27/15 07:06 PM Re: Un Sospiro Fingering [Re: Linkxero]
Polyphonist Online   content
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 8401
Loc: New York City
I just tried playing it and found that I do 5-2-1-2 as well.
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Polyphonist

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#2378878 - 01/27/15 08:35 PM Re: Un Sospiro Fingering [Re: Linkxero]
Tony Romo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/14/09
Posts: 81
Taking the C with the RH is an interesting idea, I wonder if that works in tempo.

5-5 might be a good idea too.

I think 5-2-1-2 is difficult and akward, as is 5-3-2-1, because of how much the hand has to stretch.

Hope 5-1-2-1 works for some people, as it involves the most natural configuration for the hand.







Edited by Tony Romo (01/27/15 08:36 PM)

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#2378880 - 01/27/15 08:40 PM Re: Un Sospiro Fingering [Re: Tony Romo]
Polyphonist Online   content
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 8401
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Tony Romo
I think 5-2-1-2 is difficult and akward, as is 5-3-2-1, because of how much the hand has to stretch.

Hope 5-1-2-1 works for some people, as it involves the most natural configuration for the hand.

You are incorrect. 5-3-2-1 may pose some stretching issues, but not 5-2-1-2.

5-1-2-1 is awkward and choppy.
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2378966 - 01/28/15 12:56 AM Re: Un Sospiro Fingering [Re: Tony Romo]
Michael Sayers Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/13
Posts: 2212
Loc: Stockholms län, Sverige
Hi Tony,

It isn't only about if it works in tempo, but also about bringing out the initial C in the bass line with sufficient arm weight/momentum abruptly after the A-flat which precedes it. The measure can be made to sound as though three hands are playing it, one for the bass line, one for the soprano line, and one for the arpeggios in the middle, and the fingering with the r.h. taking the initial C is, in my opinion, by far the easiest and most natural way to begin.

Sorry about the very brief post before this. It was quite late here and I was running on fumes, but there was the temptation to respond nonetheless!

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#2379319 - 01/28/15 07:00 PM Re: Un Sospiro Fingering [Re: Linkxero]
Damon Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6413
Loc: St. Louis area
Ok, does anyone besides me continue to alternate hands on the melody in bars 22 and 23?
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#2379399 - 01/28/15 11:35 PM Re: Un Sospiro Fingering [Re: Polyphonist]
Tony Romo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/14/09
Posts: 81
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: Tony Romo
I think 5-2-1-2 is difficult and akward, as is 5-3-2-1, because of how much the hand has to stretch.

Hope 5-1-2-1 works for some people, as it involves the most natural configuration for the hand.

You are incorrect. 5-3-2-1 may pose some stretching issues, but not 5-2-1-2.

5-1-2-1 is awkward and choppy.


Different fingerings work for different hands I suppose.

I just want to give ideas, and emphasize that stretchy fingerings are not desirable.

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