I read this statement from an amazon.com reviewer:

"It is often said, and generally true, that Chopin players don't make good Liszt players, and vice versa ... For my money, the best Liszt players are often outstanding not so much at Chopin as at Beethoven, and if you look at the above list of other outstanding performers of the Sonata, you'll see that's generally true ... The B minor sonata is the most Beethovenian of Liszt's works, I believe, largely because the tight construction and enormous emotional range are reminiscent of the master from Bonn."

Agree? or disagree?

That's a load of male cow excrement. Unless one grows up playing only one composer's pieces, and then suddenly makes a switch, there are sure to be some stylistic differences, and some difficulties, but you can't generalize the statement that much. It would mean that all my years spent studying Chopin was sucking away from my hidden ability to play Liszt. And, considering I just started studying the sonata, HOGWASH! POPPYCOCK! BALDERDASH!

...is what I have to say about that.

Bleh, don't mind that statement Mikester.
Take it from where it was posted.
Interpretation is more rich and complex than that generalization.

sounds like he found a really awkward way to conncect the dots there.....

Liszt was an excellent Liszt player and accounts say he played Chopin's music very well.

Once he asked Chopin to play in complete darkness, then after turning off lights he took a seat at the piano. When he relit the candles many were suprised the audience was suprised it was Liszt.

Actually, Liszt was a terrible player of Chopin. On record, Chopin called Liszt's playing (especially of Chopin's music) "vulgar". Once, Liszt sat down at the piano in front of Chopin and others and began to improvise on a Chopin piece. Chopin was ****ed, got up, told Liszt to get out of the seat, and proceded to play the piece himself, without ornamentation. Liszt was humbled and after that performance promised never again to improvise on Chopin pieces.

Liszt never felt any connection to Chopin until after Chopin's death in 1849. In that year, Liszt and Caroline (his wife at the time), began to work on a book about Chopin. Liszt wrote several Chopin-influenced pieces such as the Consolations, Ballades, Polonaises. Later in his life, Liszt would include several Chopin pieces in his concert performances. But, while Chopin was alive, his opinion of Liszt was that his playing was flashy, meaningless, and vile.

On the other hand, Liszt's idol as he was growing up was Beethoven. As a child, his father Adam had a portrait of Beethoven up on the family wall. Liszt reportedly pointed at the portrait and told his dad he wanted to be "just like him". Liszt was a terrific player of Beethoven, in 1832 he debuted the Hammerklavier at a performance. However, Beethoven was only marginally impressed by Liszt. This is probably because Beethoven passed away before Liszt was far into his career. There is an account of Liszt having played for Beethoven at the age of 11, and Beethoven kissing the boy's forehead. That kiss stayed with Liszt the rest of his life. He acquired Beethoven's death mask and his Broadwood piano. Later in his life, he also owned Beethoven's will for a period of time. The bronze statue of Beethoven in Bonn, Germany, owes its thanks to the Liszt family.

ok I rambled a little bit there, but, that's the background information with which I made my first comment. I should've mentioned the above in the first post.

Well although Chopin never liked Liszt's playing of his pieces, he still played them fairly well and often. Liszt also took exception of the criticism by Chopin and his fans which is what led to the stunt of playing in Chopin's place that I told earlier. Liszt also did publish some of his variations of Chopin's works.

At the end of the story above, Liszt asks "What do you say?" Chopin replied "I say what everyone says, I too believed it was Chopin!" Then Liszt joked: "You see that Liszt can be Chopin when he likes, but could Chopin be Liszt?" (The story is from "Frederick Chopin as Man and Musician" by Niecks)

By the time Liszt and Beethoven supposedly met at the event of the kiss, Beethoven's hearing was already mostly lost unfortunately. What he couldn't hear, I'm sure he could see in Liszt's piano technique however.

hmm I see. I'm not going to refute your story or anything like that, but Liszt's composing style was fundamentally different from Chopin's. I'm not saying it's close to Beethoven either, cuz it's not, but to play Chopin and to play Liszt are two wholly different things. So, people could hypothesize that someone who plays Liszt well (with boldness, a sense for improvisation, and harmonics) could be not a Chopin player (who is someone more rhythmic, poetic, and all-about-the-music). I could see how that might be the case. But Beethoven, that to me is the X-factor in the whole thing, how does Beethoven figure into it.

You have your anecdotes incorrect. Yes, Liszt heavily ornamented Chopin's music, and yes, Chopin was irked. However, Chopin did NOT simply sit down and play without ornamentation. He played with his OWN improvisations, for hours. The audience was in tears, and Liszt was moved. Big difference.

I'm not so sure about that. Can you provide a source?

Chopin thought that Liszt was a "mere striver of effects". He wrote to Hiller, "I would like to rob him [Liszt] of the way he plays my studies." (Franz Liszt: The Virtuoso Years by Alan Walker, pp. 184).

When you talk about ornamentation, be careful because the terms meant different things to Liszt and to Chopin. If Chopin improvised in public at all, which I find hard to believe since he wasn't fond of performing in public in the first place (FZ, pp. 183) let alone go wild with improvisation, he must not have done it for the sake of effect. Liszt was different.

When he said he wanted to rob liszt, he meant that he wished he could play the Etudes the way (as in technique) Liszt played them. He dedicated Op 10 to Liszt. writing:

"'I am writing without knowing what my pen is scribbling, as Liszt is at this moment playing my Etudes and banishing all suitable thoughts from my head. I should like to rob him of the way he plays my studies.'

It depends how you like each composer to be played!

Chopin was an extremely introverted (quite sickly) person, but his music doesn't have to be played like that to be played well - look at Rubinstein. I'd probably agree that Chopin's music is more distant stylistically from Liszt's and Beethoven's than Beethoven's is from Liszt's (in general terms).

But there are several pianists who I think are just generally excellent in whatever they do.

As I said at first, it depends what you consider "good playind".

I really believe that story is apocryphal.

koji (STSD)

Chopin was impressed that Liszt was able to play his etudes. Kalkbrenner couldn't, nobody else could. It was a passing interest that Liszt's technique was superb, Chopin was never envious of Liszt's musical ability.

Also, remember that Liszt introduced George Sand to Chopin. And Chopin was a friend of Marie D'Agoult. He liked Marie. Chopin didn't like Liszt personally. Liszt tried to be friendly but it wasn't reciprocated.

Liszt was friendly to a lot of composers, Mendelssohn, Berlioz, Alkan, Schubert, they come to mind. Many of them ended up turning their backs on him. Story of his life.

Taken from "The Book of Musical Anecdotes" by Norman Lebrecht:

"One evening, when they were all assembled in the salon, Liszt played one of Chopin's nocturnes, to which he took the liberty of adding some embellishments. Chopin's delicate intellectual face, which still bore the traces of recent illness, looked disturbed; at last he could not control himself any longer, and in that tone of sang froid which he sometimes assumed he said, 'I beg you, my dear friend, when you do me the honour of playing my compositions, to play them as they are written or else not at all.' 'Play it yourself then,' said Liszt, rising from the piano, rather piqued. 'With pleasure,' answered Chopin. At that moment a moth fell into the lamp and extinguished it. They were going to light it again when Chopin cried, 'No, put out all the lamps, the moonlight is quite enough.' Then he began to improvise and played for nearly an hour. And what an improvisation it was! Description would be impossible, for the feelings awakened by Chopin's magic fingers are not transferable into words.

When he left the piano his audience were in tears; Liszt was deeply affected, and said to Chopin, as he embraced him, 'Yes, my friend, you were right; works like yours ought not to be meddled with; other people's alterations only spoil them. You are a true poet.' 'Oh, it is nothing,' returned Chopin, gaily, 'We each have our own style.'

What a great story! Yes they had very different styles. Chopin music should not be messed with, it's too poetic. So, we have reached an agreement? Yay *shakes hands*

WOW! I'm getting that book!

I've got to say that Liszt and Chopin are kind of similar, in the sense that Chopin was the poet, and Liszt was the orator.