Hi, I would like to buy a Bohemia but there is a big price gap between 45" 113 and 48" 123A. I guess that's because the 123A has Renner action but 113 not. could anyone help me on what is the merit of renner action? how does it compare with Kawai's MILLENNIUM III action? Is that really worth the price gap? (around $2000 more)

ps: this is for the uprights. I know there are many grands use renner. Is that really works on uprights?

Most people on PW recommend using the List Prices in Larry Fine's "The Annual Supplement To The Piano Book" as the basis for beginning negotiations. (The supplement also includes recent industry trends and a rating system.)

In the most recent supplement, there is approximately a $1,300 difference between the base prices of a 113 and a 123A. Fine lists two Renner action options: Bohemia/Renner for +$1,100 and Full Renner for +$2,100.

There have been several threads re Renner actions. If someone doesn't post the differences, just use the search function.

You can get a downloadable PDF copy of the 2007-2208 supplement by clicking on this link.

IMO 48" is an ideal sized vertical, because you get a "direct blow" action and a good compromise between performance - especially in the bass - and price.

Buy the piano, not the deal.

Patience and persistence.

Thanks FogVilleLad,
I have bought the book and know the price difference. But I would like to know what is the real difference. While I played it, the 45" actually response well and I can't sense too much difference.
So I would like to know the expericer's opinion

Renner supplies action parts and completed actions to piano manufacturers according to the specifications of the manufacturer. The functional quality of the action depends mostly on its design, but also on its use of quality parts and its careful assembly and regulation by a qualified craftsman. It is the job of the piano manufacturer to see that the actions in its instruments are adequate to the task. A new Bohemia should have a very good action regardless on the name on the action or action parts, but the proof is in the playing.

Ok, if the actions don't feel very different under your fingers, then both were probably assembled carefully.

How about the tone?

AndrewF,

If you have the models right in your description, neither one of these would have a Renner. Bohemia pianos with complete Renner actions have a BR suffix after the model number. As far as I know, they were limited to the 125 Professional series and the 132 Concerto. In the case of those two series, the complete Renner option added about $800 to $1000 to the retail price.

I think the difference in the models you are referring to is really based on the overall quality level of the pianos.

On the specific Renner question. I've played a 132BR and a 132 stock model side by side. I could detect a difference, but I did not have a preference for one over the other. Whatever you buy, just make sure that the action is consistent and completely to your liking before you pay.

Sorry I should mention it's 123BR that have renner action but not 123A.
Turandot. Could you please tell me what is exact the difference? Renner is faster and light punch then Bohemia or vice versa?

Another question, I have heard if the serial number is 8... that is newer howabout 78... ? is that still new 2007 or might from 2006 model?

Okay, but remember we are talking about two individual pianos, and that both of them were 132 Concertos, not the models you are considering.

Both actions were completely acceptable to me, the Renner was not heavy, not light, exactly in the middle. The Bohemia action was a bit on the light side. I don't know which was faster because both are faster than me.

I would not be one to spend a lot for the full Renner upgrade on a 48" vertical. It would probably increase the total price by 15 to 20%. If I were you (and admittedly I'm not) I would keep that money in my pocket or use it to consider the next level up in the Bohemia line., the 125 professional.

Thanks Turandot, that's really help.
I also notice the sound board of Bohemia is kind of small (1701 for 123 and 1635 for 118) compare to Yamaha and Kawai (around 2000 for U1 and K3) and maybe because the size of dealer show room (much small for Bohemia), I cannot really tell the difference of the loudness of the sound. Basically, the Bohemia sound is warm and full. Is the sound board size really matter a lot?

I think you answered your own question. Basically, the proof is in the pudding. What you heard ["the Bohemia sound is warm and full."] is the pudding. How the ingredients in the pudding work together is more important than any one ingredient. IMHO scale design trumps the soundboard size.

If you play the 125 or 132 side by side with the 123, I think you will conclude that they sound even fuller than the 123, but I'm not sure about warmer because the 123 is pretty sweet.

Thanks turandot and all other posters,
I just got a great deal from 123 and hopefully I could enjoy it a lot. Thanks for all your help.

Congratulations AndrewF,

A nice piano, a great deal, a great day for you and your retailer!