How many of you sometimes like to make your own additional ending up, after learning a piece well? I don't know why, but I always like to ad my own personal ending to some music that I have learned. Is this so terible to do?

I guess it depends upon the piece. For a lot of the popular type pieces, yes I add my own ending. Sometimes for some of the liturgical stuff, I'll do the same, but sometimes you kind of have to improvise depending upon what's going on and at what point of the service you're in (if that makes sense at all ...)

For other pieces, such as the classical pieces, no I don't add my own ending, I try to stay as faithful to what's written as possible.

I find "Shave and a Haircut" works really well as a tag to most Liszt compositions.

???

(In truth, I can't play any Liszt. I can barely play Shave and a Haircut.)

[ November 14, 2001: Message edited by: wghornsby ]

OMG HOW CAN U SAY THAT MEET ME ON PAGE 6 OF THE EVGENY THREAD AFTER RECESS OR U'LL REGRET IT

hahah, you guys are wacky.
No, i never add anyhting on. when i was in 8th grade, i tried to put an arpeggio at the end of a beethoven peice. My teacher went NUTS and started yelling at me to NEVER do it again. after that i have been really afraid. ( i kind of expect her to jump out of the piano at me if ever attempted to do it again!)

lol

This is the thread that never dies ...
It just goes on and on and on ...

You're just too funny!

On a more serious note I personally would never add anything to Liszt's compositions. Despite the fact this maestro is not my favorite composer per se I do respect his writings. I won't add anything to 'improve' on the original music. I know, I know. You guys are kidding, right?

Allen,

Creative endings are just fine for jazz & pop, but they are a bit of a sacrelige (sp???) at the end of a piece of music written by one of the great masters--Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Chopin etc, etc...thus the humorous answers above.

If you really can't stand it, you might want to channel some of that creativity and do some composing, then you can be reponsible for the whole piece, that is until some 'smart alec' comes along & puts his own ending on it!

Good luck!

[ November 14, 2001: Message edited by: Mat D. ]

I totally agree with you Mat D.

While I wouldn't add any new music to the end of a Bach prelude or fugue, I think it is acceptable to embellish the last chord somewhat if you desire. Wanda Landowska does this alot in her harpsichord recording of the Preludes & Fugues and my teacher encouraged me to do it.

Yes, I agree, I have been taught it is acceptable to embellish the last few notes of a Bach piece. When I was learning the F minor Prelude and Fugue from the Well-Tempered Clavier Book II my teacher in fact encouraged turning the penultimate G in the fugue into a trill. Frederic Gulda adds trills in other places as well.

But embellishing anything in Beethoven and Mozart is definitely not a good idea. I have been taught that Beethoven would have wanted pianists to pay close attention to his rhythms, tempo markings, dynamics, etc. I don't know about composers like Chopin and Liszt. But I think, in some of Debussy's calmer music, it may be acceptable to play the last chord as a slow arpeggio (His Ballade is an example of this. My score has it written as a rolled chord, but the recording I have of it has it as a slow arpeggio.)

While I do not think one should ever add anything to a piece in actual performance, in my opinion its perfectly fine to modify a piece on your own. What do you think a personal transcription essentially is? The thing is, usually modifying will ruin the piece in incapable hands. Improvising and transcribing pieces were fairly standard practices--for many high caliber pianist of old. Most of us, however, would not want to modify a piece because it will not in anyway enhance it. And of of course you should always know the real thing. I understand it when people view this as an insult against the original work. And I agree. Which is hy this is not some little thing to be attempted by a foolish amateur. Liszts Hungarian Rhapsodies are examples. The famous Rhapsody numer two is an example. Of course the oriinal should be respected. But you will be surprised at what few altercations (that is a more appropraite word)) can do. A few rapid passages, perhaps. This will not make the piece greater. But this is your own touch and interpretation (as an addition to the original).

[ November 14, 2001: Message edited by: SethW ]

I think it depends on the style of the composer.

Certainly, I would not change the ending of, say, a Beethoven Sonata (although, if given the opportunity to play his or Mozart's Concertos, I would probably play my own Cadenzas). However, Liszt seems to me more flexible. Earl Wild has performed the Mephisto Waltz with his own coda. And I certainly would not want to be without my recordings of Horowitz' arrangements of Liszt's Rhapsodies.

So, I think it's a question of appropriateness within the compositional style, and knowledge of that particular composers performance style.

Actually, I think Chopin might be pretty flexible also in some cases. I've read somewhere that Chopin refused to write down a lot of his music on paper, thinking it was too tedious and time-consuming, and usually relied on his own memory and improvisation. Just so long as the music isn't radically altered, I think it might be okay to somewhat modify endings to Chopin pieces as well.

And cadenzas for Beethoven and Mozart concertos (well, definitely except for Beethoven's Emperor) you can definitely insert your own. The cadenza was usually to serve as a brief rest period for the orchestra and to allow the soloist to show off his skills. And many times, the soloist improvised the cadenza. That's why many editions of Beethoven and Mozart piano concertos publish the cadenza separately as an appendix in the back of the book.

by the way, just curious... how many of you would really play Chopin pieces exactly as they were written? I usually change some little things every time I play... especially the ornaments... I love playing around with those and listening to the different effects they produce... very interesting...

Yes, I experiment with ornaments also. For example, the turns in the first movement of Beethoven's Pathetique Sonata--I like to try out different ways of playing them.

In Chopin, the only changes I make are occasionally moving bass notes down another octave (e.g. in the Polonaise Op. 53, those three b-flats in the main theme, I extend them to the lowest one).