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#587855 - 12/21/06 11:21 PM its in chopin too
tomt6113 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/13/05
Posts: 85
Loc: new york
i know im beating this math in music thing to death, but i figured that this was definitely worth a new post. i posted this in the bartok /golden ratio thing too, but figured since this is chopin id make a new post about it for organizational purposes. but anyway i read that the golden ratio is in music even when the composer was not trying to include it. i also read that some of chopins music contains it. so just for fun i took the amoutn of measures in etude 10/1 (78) divided it by 1.618 and got roughly 48 (48.2....) went to measure 48. and sure enough in this measure the "theme" returns in its original key.
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#587856 - 12/22/06 12:08 AM Re: its in chopin too
Arjen Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/24/05
Posts: 173
Loc: Groningen, Netherlands
Anyone who knows anything about statistics can tell you any number will show up in Chopin's work if you look for it.

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#587857 - 12/22/06 12:34 AM Re: its in chopin too
Kreisler Offline



Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13825
Loc: Iowa City, IA
(-1)^.5

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"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

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www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed

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#587858 - 12/22/06 12:54 AM Re: its in chopin too
pianojerome Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 9868
Freder(-1).5c Chop(-1).5n?
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#587859 - 12/22/06 09:59 AM Re: its in chopin too
JohnEB Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/20/06
Posts: 754
Loc: Belgium
I read that if you convert the notes in Nocturne 9 nr 2 to letters, bar 15 spells out 'George Sand a des pieds qui puent' (George Sands has stinky feet).

Don't tell Dan Brown or he'll write a book about it.
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#587860 - 12/22/06 11:16 AM Re: its in chopin too
playliszt Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/01/06
Posts: 450
Loc: Oh/Fla
To tomt6113 :

Now Tom... if you want to convince yourself and others that this isn't a fluke, you need to do it for at least all of Opus 10 & maybe Opus 25. If the results beat a random occurrence of this event you may have something scientifically verifiable. (I'm not sure exactly what yet but a quantum physicist should be able to do something with it)

Who knows, maybe this G.Ratio is coded somehow into our DNA.

Have fun!

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#587861 - 12/22/06 11:58 AM Re: its in chopin too
Ben Johnson Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/11/06
Posts: 39
Loc: Chicago
 Quote:
Originally posted by JohnEB:
I read that if you convert the notes in Nocturne 9 nr 2 to letters, bar 15 spells out 'George Sand a des pieds qui puent' (George Sands has stinky feet).

Don't tell Dan Brown or he'll write a book about it. [/b]
How is it converted to letters? I don't recall a "Q" or "T" note on my keyboard.

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#587862 - 12/22/06 12:27 PM Re: its in chopin too
ted.stanion Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/15/06
Posts: 278
Loc: Portland, OR
 Quote:
Originally posted by playliszt:
To tomt6113 :

Who knows, maybe this G.Ratio is coded somehow into our DNA.

Have fun! [/b]
I remember reading that if many people are asked to draw a rectangle, the ratio of the average rectangle's sides approaches the Golden Ratio. That is pretty neat considering that the G.R. is in some sense the most irrational number possible.

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#587863 - 12/22/06 12:48 PM Re: its in chopin too
tomt6113 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/13/05
Posts: 85
Loc: new york
i dont think chopin consciously did it. the point is the golden sprial/ratio/section shows up a lot in nature and the rectangle mentioned is considered to be "the most pleasing rectangle to look at". the movie "pi" that was mentioned has a lot to do the the golden spiral being at the root of everything and intrinsic to humans. and i was just showing one instance in music where the glden ratio exists and it doesnt seem to be contrived as it fits almost perfectly. but i do plan on looking at some of chopins other works to see what appens. who knows where the quest will lead me.
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#587864 - 12/22/06 01:05 PM Re: its in chopin too
Ben Johnson Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/11/06
Posts: 39
Loc: Chicago
 Quote:
who knows where the quest will lead me. [/QB]
An electric drill to the temple, maybe? ;\)

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#587865 - 12/22/06 01:42 PM Re: its in chopin too
tomt6113 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/13/05
Posts: 85
Loc: new york
An electric drill to the temple, maybe?

hahaha. pi is one of my favorite movies of all time. when i first read about the golden ratio in music i thought "oh man, this is just like that movie." unfortunately im not a mathematical genius.
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#587866 - 12/22/06 01:58 PM Re: its in chopin too
Xav Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/18/05
Posts: 67
there are some times in which id love to be a mathematical genious
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#587867 - 12/23/06 07:06 PM Re: its in chopin too
tomt6113 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/13/05
Posts: 85
Loc: new york
there are 48 measures in the 2nd etude. haha. i know that this is probably a fluke. but its a big coincidence.
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#587868 - 12/25/06 01:52 PM Re: its in chopin too
pianojerome Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 9868
 Quote:
Originally posted by tomt6113:
there are 48 measures in the 2nd etude. haha. i know that this is probably a fluke. but its a big coincidence. [/b]
There are 49 measures in Op. 10 No. 2. (and 48 isn't a fibonnaci number anyway: 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55...)

On first thought, I thought maybe there were just three 16-measure phrases (or six 8-measure phrases).

Checking the score, I see it as divided into three sections: 18 measures, 17 measures, and 14 measures. Total: 49.
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Sam

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#587869 - 12/25/06 08:22 PM Re: its in chopin too
Bernard Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/06/01
Posts: 3857
Loc: North Groton, NH
 Quote:
i dont think chopin consciously did it. the point is the golden sprial/ratio/section shows up a lot in nature and the rectangle mentioned is considered to be "the most pleasing rectangle to look at".
I heard that the distance from the top of a person's head to the bottom of their feet divided by the distance from their belly button to the bottom of their feet is the golden ratio! ??
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#587870 - 12/25/06 11:39 PM Re: its in chopin too
tomt6113 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/13/05
Posts: 85
Loc: new york
whoops i miscounted. and point taken...dead topic.
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