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#592886 - 12/18/06 12:14 AM Re: Advanced piano on Clavinova CLP?
Mark Purney Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/22/06
Posts: 373
Loc: Mesa, AZ
This is going in circles, and I think a lot of this arguing is just unnecessary. Nobody is claiming that digitals are better than acoustic grands. Nobody is even arguing that digitals are even anywhere near as good as good acoustic grands (I'm certainly not making that claim). So why such the heated debate? We should narrow this discussion to addressing the poster's original question and helping him make a REALISTIC decision for his circumstances. I interpret his question as:

"If you don't have the money or the space for an acoustic grand, and silent practice is required, will a CLP be sufficient for studying advanced material?"

An acoustic grand isn't even an option here! As I see it, the person asking the question has two options: A digital, or an upright that has a silent practice mechanism. And if his budget is limited to the cost of a CLP-270, this severely limits the range of upright choices to used or low quality uprights.

I simply could not recommend a low quality upright to someone over a CLP-270, because I think the digital, IN THIS SITUATION, is superior for studying advanced material.

The acoustic pianos I had growing up were not good. In fact, they were far inferior to today's CLP digitals in quality of sound and action. Despite that, I got as far as competing in concerto competitions by age 12, and even performed a concerto with an orchestra at that age. Since buying a CLP-175 a few months ago I feel I've been able to advance beyond the level I was when I quit studying at age 14 at the Cleveland Institute.

I do hope to get an acoustic grand myself, but I'm not ready to make that purchase at this time for various reasons. Even after that happens, I will continue to use the digital for silent practice - lots of it.
_________________________
www.Pianogoods.com
RPT @ Mesa Piano Service

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#592887 - 12/18/06 03:50 PM Re: Advanced piano on Clavinova CLP?
mwf Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/11/06
Posts: 419
Loc: Peterborough, England
Hi

The main question I have is do I really need an acoustic upright not grand, in order to develop musically and technically, thus managing pieces of a more advanced nature such as complex, dissonant music like you find in Islamey or Gaspard.

On the other hand, would a Clavinova be ok for more arguably simpler music such as Mozart, where obviously phrasing amongst other aspects are crucial.

Michael gives me the impression that I need an acoustic upright to practice music like this, and he writes Clavinova models off as nothing more than a tool to sight-read or for making first steps towards a piece. This has thrown be a tad because he has the clp280, in my opinion a great instrument for all round piano performance.

Using an upright to me may be an unwise choice because playing with the silent pedal all the time will ruin my musical experience. And its still loud in my books anyway compared to the volume turned down on a digital piano.

I also dont think clp models or any digital piano can compete with an acoustic grand, I never said that. I just wanted to reasure myself that practicing soley on a Clavinova piano for hours a day will be ok, and not make me less of a pianist compared to someone who plays uprights, not grands, all the time.

Basically is owning an acoustic upright of paramount importance when considering to venture into advanced piano literature? Is practice soley on a digital piano such as a Clp model an unwise move to make? Considering of course I currently have no access to a grand piano. I know uprights have wooden keys, real strings and apparently tone colour control as compared to digital pianos which consist of none of the above criteria, well apart from perhaps wooden keys on some models.

Finally the clp-280 is out of my price range, so I have opted for the clp-270, I dont think the wooden white keys matter enough for the significant price difference. They both have the same features anyway.

Yamaha to me have got it right as far as digital pianos are concerned, and I cant see anything close to the Clavinova clp range in the other companies models such as Roland.

You see the above post by Mark Purney is reassuring, however the post by hakki is not, there is no mention of a case for suitable advanced piano on a Clavinova piano. I dont think I can get a good quality full size upright, as the post mentions is crucial.

Anyway many thanks for the replies I have received from the members of this excellent forum, I have learnt quite a bit already, any more replies to this post would be greatly appreciated.

MWF.
_________________________
www.youtube.com/ukpiano

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#592888 - 12/19/06 12:43 PM Re: Advanced piano on Clavinova CLP?
Hakki Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 2969
I just noticed that the link I gave is not working anymore. So here's the new link.


http://www.savefile.com/files/350610
_________________________
Put in one of IMO, I think, to me, for me... or similar to all sentences I post

http://www.youtube.com/user/hakkithepianist

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#592889 - 12/19/06 02:49 PM Re: Advanced piano on Clavinova CLP?
Jan-Erik Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/18/05
Posts: 1302
Loc: Finland
I think you can go very far technically on a Clavinova. Read scores, learn to hit the correct keys in the correct time with correct force.
perhaps the greatest differnce lays in hte sustain pedal and the absence of natural resonance.

I regularly train on a Yamaha P80 and Kawai ES3, and during week and enjoy the sound of a real piano. The action, however, of the best digitals are superior to the actions of many uprights, and more consistent.

A big problem indeed that piano actions are so various!

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#592890 - 12/20/06 12:45 AM Re: Advanced piano on Clavinova CLP?
ScrpPian Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/06/06
Posts: 28
 Quote:
Originally posted by mwf:
Hi,

This is my first post on this rather good forum,

I am currently in the progress of saving some money up for a new Yamaha Clavinova CLP-270 and I was just concerned that after reading up alot on digital pianos, concerning the advantages and more importantly disadvantages of owning a piano such as this, is it a wise choice to make considering I am a fairly advanced player and tend to focus on technically difficult and musically challenging pieces?

I was wondering if a model such as the CLP270 could handle, as it were, musically and technically pieces that I want to start playing, like Rachmaninov preludes, gaspard, islamey etc.. I am not sure if an acoustic piano is a must to have and practice pieces like this on, as I have heard time and time again.

Can Clavinovas be effectively played on to a concert standard for the more richer harmonic pieces for example?

Could the above pieces I have mentioned be effectively performed on a digital piano such as a CLP270? I personally feel I could after playing the clp270 for some time in a piano showroom, however people say there is no control over tone colour amongst other things, I dont want to buy it and regret the choice after a few years or so. Its alot of money and I dont want to regret my decision.

The reason why I have opted for a clavinova digital piano as apposed to an acoustic upright is because I need to practice silently most of the time and the actual tone of the clp270 I have fell in love with, and I find it more pleasing to the ear than alot of other real uprights I have tryed out, including a Yamaha upright worth originally five thousand pounds!!!

Please, please could people share their views and opinions on this matter, I am currently set on purchasing the CLP270 you see.

I have also heard top music schools have clavinova pianos as practice instruments for the students, so they must be suitable for performing the more advanced repertoire, the route I wish to take.

Thanks.
MWF

MWF [/b]
NO!!!!!!!!

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#592891 - 12/23/06 03:46 PM Re: Advanced piano on Clavinova CLP?
Hakki Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 2969
 Quote:
Originally posted by mwf:


........

Yamaha to me have got it right as far as digital pianos are concerned, and I cant see anything close to the Clavinova clp range in the other companies models such as Roland.

You see the above post by Mark Purney is reassuring, however the post by hakki is not, there is no mention of a case for suitable advanced piano on a Clavinova piano. I dont think I can get a good quality full size upright, as the post mentions is crucial.

Anyway many thanks for the replies I have received from the members of this excellent forum, I have learnt quite a bit already, any more replies to this post would be greatly appreciated.

MWF. [/b]
Since I haven't tried the Yamaha 270, I can't comment on that. My assessments are based on the Roland HP107 I own. I find it difficult at times to play advanced pieces on my Roland because the sounds are sampled at 4 levels of velocity only. Sometimes, notes that would sound normal on an acoustic piano come out louder than I intend due to this factor. Yet, if you find the 10-1 I play on my Roland acceptable, then why not go with a digital.

Regards,
_________________________
Put in one of IMO, I think, to me, for me... or similar to all sentences I post

http://www.youtube.com/user/hakkithepianist

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#592892 - 12/23/06 04:05 PM Re: Advanced piano on Clavinova CLP?
The Emperor Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/22/06
Posts: 133
Loc: Lagos, Portugal
I think the best way to go is to connect the clavinova to a pc and play with a good sample library like synthogy's ivory, much better sound than the clavinova.

I have a clp 230 and i'm quite happy with it, next month finally i will upgrade my pc and get ivory and it will sound a lot lot better with the speakers of the clavinova + 4 from pc/stereo system all around me. It's going to be cool.

Of course i whish i had a acoustic but i live in an apartment so it's not recommended.

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#592893 - 12/24/06 08:00 AM Re: Advanced piano on Clavinova CLP?
Requiem Aeternam Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 1395
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
ROFL hey mwf you might want to learn a little bit of something called humility you're a dumb noob that crawled out of the woodwork with zero posts and by your 5th one you're already waging personal attacks on a respected member here that was offering you his mere opinion and advice. Sounds to me like the only "arrogant" chap here is you. Better learn some manners boy or your tenure here at pianoworld will be quite a short one.
_________________________
"He who turns himself into a beast, gets rid of the pain of being a man."

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#592894 - 12/24/06 10:52 AM Re: Advanced piano on Clavinova CLP?
BB Player Offline


Registered: 11/17/06
Posts: 2750
Loc: Not in Texas
 Quote:
Originally posted by Requiem Aeternam:
ROFL hey mwf you might want to learn a little bit of something called humility you're a dumb noob that crawled out of the woodwork with zero posts and by your 5th one you're already waging personal attacks on a respected member here that was offering you his mere opinion and advice. Sounds to me like the only "arrogant" chap here is you. Better learn some manners boy or your tenure here at pianoworld will be quite a short one. [/b]
I completely agree. I thought Michael's responses were polite, on point and sincere attempts to answer the question asked while MWF quickly descended to personal attacks apparently because Michael had the temerity to disagree with him. In re-reading the thread I was impressed by Michael's continued polite responses and willingness to keep trying to explain his position in the face of increasingly hostile responses from MWF.

Take your anger elsewhere MWF. If you ask for an opinion at least be prepared for the possibility that it might differ from your own.
_________________________
Greg

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#592895 - 12/24/06 11:56 AM Re: Advanced piano on Clavinova CLP?
Requiem Aeternam Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 1395
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
hallelujah and amen brotha, merry christmas to all \:\)
_________________________
"He who turns himself into a beast, gets rid of the pain of being a man."

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#592896 - 12/25/06 06:46 PM Re: Advanced piano on Clavinova CLP?
mwf Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/11/06
Posts: 419
Loc: Peterborough, England
Sorry folks... I like this forum, so I will become polite from now on and respect the members properly as I should. Merry Christmas.
_________________________
www.youtube.com/ukpiano

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