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#593397 - 04/28/02 09:50 PM Lifting weights
Trimen1000 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/28/02
Posts: 2
Do you have any suggestions on stuff to use while lifting weights as in wraps and stuff. Or the way to lift weights to put less stres on te wrists and fingers I suppose.

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#593398 - 04/28/02 10:03 PM Re: Lifting weights
Mr. Gould Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/01
Posts: 1111
Yeah I was going to ask that question my self..
I was wondering if lifting weights itself is bad on the fingers.

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#593399 - 04/28/02 10:39 PM Re: Lifting weights
ChemicalGrl Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/03/01
Posts: 643
Loc: Durham, North Carolina
I assume you're asking about free weights, right? I've done a free-weight regimen, and I've had no problems with my fingers. (Actually, my karate/jiu-jitsu/kobudo activity had the potential to jam up fingers more than the weight lifting ... but then that would be the case if I didn't position my fingers correctly in the first place ...)

I've not really used any sort of wraps for the fingers and I've only used light (no more than 5 lb) weights whenever I did my weight regimens. Is it blisters/calluses that you're concerned about, because admittedly I can't see how you can mess up a finger from working with free weights.
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#593400 - 04/28/02 10:53 PM Re: Lifting weights
Rodion Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/06/01
Posts: 296
Loc: Salt Lake City
i don't think there would be any problems, it's not much different than the kind of wear and tear you get from mountain biking, rowing, sawing all day etc, none of which have harmed my playing.
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#593401 - 04/28/02 11:05 PM Re: Lifting weights
Ted Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 1503
Loc: Auckland, New Zealand
At one stage I used a lot of bullworker but stopped it because I became convinced it wasn't good for my piano playing. I had started to get sensations in my hands and wrists I didn't like. They ceased when I didn't use the bullworker so there was definitely a connection.
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#593402 - 04/28/02 11:50 PM Re: Lifting weights
Mr. Gould Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/01
Posts: 1111
I am talking about 10 - 20 pound free weights, and around 40 to 60 pound bench press.
(light stuff)
I am young and growing fast, I wouldn't want my hands to grow more slowly. But I doubt they will because I only tone my body.

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#593403 - 04/29/02 12:13 AM Re: Lifting weights
JBryan Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/19/02
Posts: 9798
Loc: Oklahoma City
I used to be heavy into a particularly punishing style of Okinawan karate and I never experienced any sort of permanent damage although, at times, I might have been simply too beat up to play up to par. There was certainly the potential for permanent injury to my fingers but I was careful and managed not to incur any. I don't know that I feel lucky enough to roll the dice like that today but, maybe. I just spent the entire weekend behind a rototiller in my garden (actually, lawn to start with) and what I feel now is somewhat reminiscent.
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#593404 - 04/29/02 12:42 AM Re: Lifting weights
Mr. Gould Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/01
Posts: 1111
Hmmmmmmm you know ----- golfing is a bitch on the fingers too!!

I had golfed for about 4 -5 hours today and My fingers are so stiff and tired now!!!!!!
is this just me or do any other golfer's fingers and wrist hurt after?????

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#593405 - 04/29/02 12:47 AM Re: Lifting weights
T2 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/18/01
Posts: 341
 Quote:
Originally posted by Trimen1000:
Do you have any suggestions on stuff to use while lifting weights as in wraps and stuff. Or the way to lift weights to put less stres on te wrists and fingers I suppose.[/b]
You have a piano teacher to learn piano, right? So, get a knowledgeable person to teach you to work out. Do you have a wrist or finger injury or a family history of the same? If so, see a doctor specializing in hand injuries and/or a sports medicine doc. If you are basically healthy and are doing the exercises correctly you shouldn't have to worry about it affecting your piano playing. Pulling exercises, however, produce a small callus on your palms. I bench in the high 300s and deadlift in the high 500s and never use gloves, and I'm fine. My wife has a 180 lb bench and a 280 deadlift, and she doesn't use gloves either. The only thing I use wrist wraps for is hand-fatigue producing exercises like pull-ups, i.e., 10 sets of 10 w/ weight suspended on belt. And you probably don't do that.

The biggest risk you face in a gym is in not knowing how to do the exercises correctly and safely. Most beginners look like the blind leading the blind. Do yourself a favor and get a good trainer who can show you how to avoid injury. And get expert medical advice if you even think there is a possibility you have a wrist or hand injury.

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#593406 - 04/29/02 02:10 AM Re: Lifting weights
Rodion Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/06/01
Posts: 296
Loc: Salt Lake City
 Quote:
Originally posted by Classical Player:
I am young and growing fast, I wouldn't want my hands to grow more slowly. But I doubt they will because I only tone my body.[/b]
excercise stops you from growing? that's a new one on me, unless it's just too late and i'm reading it wrong.
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#593407 - 04/29/02 09:55 AM Re: Lifting weights
Trimen1000 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/28/02
Posts: 2
Thanks for your guy's help. I'll see what I can do with it.

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#593408 - 04/29/02 12:50 PM Re: Lifting weights
Mr. Gould Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/01
Posts: 1111
"""""""""""excercise stops you from growing? that's a new one on me, unless it's just too late and i'm reading it wrong.""""""""

You read it partially wrong ;\)
But yes I heard if you lift really heavy weights and you are under 18 you will be shorter.

I think its because all of the hormones are given to the arms instead of other places in the body.

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#593409 - 04/29/02 12:58 PM Re: Lifting weights
Jolly Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/20/01
Posts: 14048
Loc: Louisiana
My daughter ordered her state championship powerlifting ring last week. She is primarily a flutist, but also plays piano and saxophone.

She has experienced no problems.
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#593410 - 04/29/02 01:11 PM Re: Lifting weights
T2 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/18/01
Posts: 341
I've heard more than one trainer say that it is not recommended to have anybody under the age of 14 lift weights. I don't know the physiology involved, but if my memory serves the concern was more skeletal than muscular.

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#593411 - 04/29/02 01:21 PM Re: Lifting weights
Grotius Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/11/02
Posts: 100
Classical Player: I play golf, and I also find it tough on the fingers and wrists. Like piano, golf can also be tough on the back.

In his book "Piano Pieces", Russell Sherman draws a number parallels between golf and piano. He focuses on similarities in the physical and mental challenges of the two endeavors. But he might well have added that the two generate similar injuries!

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#593412 - 04/29/02 01:44 PM Re: Lifting weights
piqué Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/15/01
Posts: 5483
classical player,
if you are still growing, i would be very cautious about weight lifting. when bones are still growing, they are susceptible to injury/damage as a result of weight lifting. it's better to let yourself fill out naturally and slowly. you'll get there!

i used to do very serious weight training three times a week, and i was taught how to do it properly by a physical therapist. even so, using free weights and even cybex machines can result in the compression of your vertibrae and misalignments throughout the skeleton, which can negatively impact your piano playing (not to mention your life) by causing nerve compression and damage. i have given it up altogether.
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#593413 - 04/29/02 03:45 PM Re: Lifting weights
mkesfahani Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/26/02
Posts: 836
Loc: Irvine, CA
Use gardening gloves. They prevent blisters, especially when the handle is rough. I wouldn't touch a free weight without them (not that I ever exercise anymore).

Mike

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#593414 - 04/30/02 12:45 PM Re: Lifting weights
T2 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/18/01
Posts: 341
 Quote:
Originally posted by pique:
i used to do very serious weight training three times a week, and i was taught how to do it properly by a physical therapist. even so, using free weights and even cybex machines can result in the compression of your vertibrae and misalignments throughout the skeleton, which can negatively impact your piano playing (not to mention your life) by causing nerve compression and damage. i have given it up altogether.[/b]
Pique, I respect that your mileage may vary, but your experience does not match up with mine. I was a passenger in a 50 mph head-on collision about 15 years ago. It shut me down for quite a while. What got me going again was physical therapy and weight training with light weights. I had intermittent back pain for about the next 10 years until my wife, who is quite an athelete, encouraged me to do serious weight training with her. I've been doing that about five years now, and my back discomfort has disappeared. True, I have had occasional muscle soreness after hard workouts, but that is a completely different sensation than chronic back pain.

I was thinking about your post when I went to a power lifting meet this weekend and talked to some people about this issue, including two MD's and several competitors in their 80s. I noted that all the guys in their 80s walked upright with very straight backs. So, I asked a couple of them, "How's your back?"

One said, "Oh, fine, but I played football in my younger days and my knees are shot." A conversation about early 20th century football ensued.

Another man who was 83 said that he had a car accident about 15 year ago and injured his back so badly that after 5 years he could barely walk. What helped him out was working with weights. He now does squats, good mornings and deadlifts every week, and then takes a long walk. He looks great. No, he looks more than great. He looks awesome.

One of the MD's I talked to about children lifting weights indicated that kids under 14 or 15 should not lift heavy weights. But doing speed work with weights up to their body weight is fine. The issue is that their bones are still relatively soft and there is a possibility for compression of the back. So, I followed up, asking whether this is an issue for adults. He said, "No", by then the bones are harder and that the pressure on the back only lasts a few seconds and the disks, if they're healthy, are elastic and will bounce back. He said that weight lifting and calcium supplements will help to increase bone density, improve posture and help prevent osteoperosis.

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#593415 - 04/30/02 11:57 PM Re: Lifting weights
Mr. Gould Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/01
Posts: 1111
 Quote:
i used to do very serious weight training three times a week, and i was taught how to do it properly by a physical therapist. even so, using free weights and even cybex machines can result in the compression of your vertibrae and misalignments throughout the skeleton, which can negatively impact your piano playing (not to mention your life) by causing nerve compression and damage. i have given it up altogether.
thanks for the info!
From now on I am only doing push ups and sit ups...... And I am going to buy a golfing glove so I dont get those blisters! I heard lying on flat hard ground is great for the back, any comments?

BTW This topic has nothing to do with the piano but oh well ;\)

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#593416 - 05/01/02 12:03 AM Re: Lifting weights
Mr. Gould Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/01
Posts: 1111
And I really hope your back feels better Ted!!!
When my back's muscle inflated from playing the piano way to much I felt like crap, But yours was probably alot worse. Oh and that 83 year old man you mentioned is really amazing, at that age its incredible he managed to recover at all!!

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#593417 - 05/01/02 05:14 AM Re: Lifting weights
.rvaga* Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/14/02
Posts: 2046
Loc: Portland, Oregon
Weight training is OK. . . bodybuilding is not, at least in my experience.

I found that as my forearms and bicepts/tricepts grew, my piano technique suffered. Sure, more power, but forearms especially would tire more easily in passages. I became stronger, but the endurance decreased, muscles became fatigued. Somewhat the opposite of what one might expect!
Seems that "thin and wiry" is much better for piano technique. Again, just my observations of what was happening to me. Looked good - but played like Aaaaarnolddd.

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#593418 - 05/01/02 06:47 PM Re: Lifting weights
Ted Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 1503
Loc: Auckland, New Zealand
rvaga:

Yes, I can confirm the effects you describe.
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