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#59748 - 01/12/09 01:15 PM SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
cklavier Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/07/09
Posts: 1
Loc: Philadelphia, PA
Hello everyone.

I'm new here and am very grateful for this forum.
After a couple months of research (Larry Fine's Piano Book, Piano World, talking with friends/family) I have narrowed down to a few brands and wanted to get your input on how to proceed.

I first saw the Yamaha T-118 and was decently impressed by its clarity and touch.

The second piano I saw was an Essex 123, which was about the same price as the Yamaha. It was also decent and, the salesperson told me it is quickly becoming their best-selling piano.

I finally played a Charles Walter and was more impressed by the cabinet than I was the feel and sound, but it was OK, too. It had a decent amount of depth.

Any thoughts on which piano to gravitate to and why? I've budgeted around $5,000 and not too much more. Thanks for your help!

I'd appreciate it if you would not suggest other pianos to try out as these are the 3 brands I would like to focus on.
_________________________
Cklavier

Yamaha Clavinova CVP-94

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#59749 - 01/12/09 02:47 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
paulmarcus Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/24/08
Posts: 57
Loc: USA
I have not played the Charles Walter, but hear they're nice pianos. I have played the Essex 123.. in fact, just today between tuning appts I stopped in to see the Bechstein dealer and right next to the Bechstein 190 sat an Essex 123. Naturally I played both. I was very impressed with the Essex. For a $5,000 piano I thought it played as well as any Yamaha U series.

I am fond of the Steinway products as I studied for 10 years on Steinway. The Essex uprights are 100% Steinway's design and uses Steinway's patents, but is manufactured by Pearl River. You still get Steinway's full warranty though.

I personally like the Essex, but you'd probably be happy with either.
_________________________
Marcus

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#59750 - 01/12/09 05:18 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
Diaphragmatic Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 422
 Quote:
Originally posted by cklavier:
Hello everyone.

I'm new here and am very grateful for this forum.
After a couple months of research (Larry Fine's Piano Book, Piano World, talking with friends/family) I have narrowed down to a few brands and wanted to get your input on how to proceed.

I first saw the Yamaha T-118 and was decently impressed by its clarity and touch.

The second piano I saw was an Essex 123, which was about the same price as the Yamaha. It was also decent and, the salesperson told me it is quickly becoming their best-selling piano.

I finally played a Charles Walter and was more impressed by the cabinet than I was the feel and sound, but it was OK, too. It had a decent amount of depth.

Any thoughts on which piano to gravitate to and why? I've budgeted around $5,000 and not too much more. Thanks for your help!

I'd appreciate it if you would not suggest other pianos to try out as these are the 3 brands I would like to focus on. [/b]
The Essex 123 has a full, clear tone and even scale, especially when considering its an 48" upright.

It's my favorite vertical in the Essex line.

and BTW, ~5,000 is an excellent price for that piano.

I have had many families choose Essex over the U series Yamaha's and K series Kawai's even though they do not compete in the same price point.

A Steinway designed product is a solid choice.
_________________________
Musically Yours,
Jonathan Hunt

Sales Professional:
Steinway, Boston, Essex, Kohler & Campbell

The Music Gallery
Clearwater, Fl.

Top
#59751 - 01/12/09 05:39 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
mahermusic Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/08/08
Posts: 331
Loc: U.S.A.
I believe the Charles Walter is in a different tier than both the Yamaha and Essex in Larry Fine's Piano Book, being in the higher Tier 2.

Also, the Walter will have no particle board in its construction, as you saw when you referenced the cabinet quality, as well as individually weighted keys, and exceptional tuning stability.

Also, unlike the other two models you mentioned, the Walter family handcrafts each piano in their factory in Elkhart, Indiana, and places a 12-year FULL warranty on it. Only a few piano manufacturers give a full warranty with their piano... and Walter is one of them.

Now.... can you get a Walter for $5,000? That may be tough. Are you being offered the chance to purchase a brand new Walter at $5,000? I would say grab it without hesitation.

Disclaimer - I own a Walter... and LOVE it! Good luck!
_________________________
Charles R. Walter 1520 QA Mahogany #531739 w/ High Polish, Renner and Quiet Pedal

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#59752 - 01/12/09 05:43 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7089
Loc: torrance, CA
 Quote:
Originally posted by cklavier:
Hello everyone.

I'm new here and am very grateful for this forum.
After a couple months of research (Larry Fine's Piano Book, Piano World, talking with friends/family) I have narrowed down to a few brands and wanted to get your input on how to proceed.

I first saw the Yamaha T-118 and was decently impressed by its clarity and touch.

The second piano I saw was an Essex 123, which was about the same price as the Yamaha. It was also decent and, the salesperson told me it is quickly becoming their best-selling piano.

I finally played a Charles Walter and was more impressed by the cabinet than I was the feel and sound, but it was OK, too. It had a decent amount of depth.

Any thoughts on which piano to gravitate to and why? I've budgeted around $5,000 and not too much more. Thanks for your help!

I'd appreciate it if you would not suggest other pianos to try out as these are the 3 brands I would like to focus on. [/b]
I won't suggest other pianos, but I would question your process of paring your list to three. From the way you describe it, it seems that you arrived at these three after reading Fine, reading this forum, and talking to other people.......no mention of auditioning a bunch of pianos with your own fingers and ears.

If that is true, I think you have probably ruled out pianos that you might like better.

One comment on design. In this price range, who designed the thing is not of overriding importance. Think designer perfumes. The designer's name is all over the packaging, but the fragrance inside tells the tale.
_________________________
Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier

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#59753 - 01/12/09 08:22 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
paulmarcus Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/24/08
Posts: 57
Loc: USA
Bad analogy.
_________________________
Marcus

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#59754 - 01/12/09 08:49 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7089
Loc: torrance, CA
 Quote:
Bad analogy.
You're probably right, Marcus.
Stinky actually \:D , but I try to stay away from the car analogies.

Let me phrase it without an analogy. A low-priced piano is not likely to be a technical tour de force. Design is the result of compromises to deliver a product that can compete well at the desired pricepoint with the desired margin. I'm not referring at all to Charles Walter pianos since their intended price is far higher than 5k, and if they are really selling at 5k, it's not by design.

In that connection, let me ask you a question about your statement......

 Quote:
The Essex uprights are 100% Steinway's design and uses Steinway's patents, but is manufactured by Pearl River.
What application of exclusive Steinway patents to the Essex verticals makes them unique from their humble Pearl River cousins?
_________________________
Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier

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#59755 - 01/12/09 08:54 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
CW
_________________________
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)

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#59756 - 01/12/09 08:56 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 13965
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
If you ever come across this one, try this 49" beaut.

http://www.pianoworld.com/Uploads/files/IMG_2289.jpg

http://www.pianoworld.com/Uploads/files/IMG_2292.jpg

In your particular price range and coming with adustable real leather bench, I have played no better piano,now,20 or 40 years ago.

"Norbert"

http://www.brodmann-pianos.com/upright_piano_123m.html?&L=1%20%5BBOE%3A%20Vir

Available only in high gloss mahagony. \:o

The only reluctance I have to post this here is that now all the other Brodmann dealers are running off like crazy starting to order this particular 49" somewhat hidden gem among all the Brodmann uprights

It's one piano at a price that could help explain the current economic trouble we're in.

Raise its price to at least $ 10,000 - and all will be o.k. again.

Hopefully.....

Norbert ;\)
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#59757 - 01/12/09 10:19 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
Pianomadam Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/18/07
Posts: 416
Loc: Southern United States
You are considering good pianos, cklavier. What prices are you getting on each piano? Which seems best built to you? What do you feel most comfortable with?
_________________________
PianoMadam

Family of Steinway-Designed Pianos (Steinway & Sons, Boston, Essex) Dealer

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#59758 - 01/12/09 10:29 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
Beacon Chris Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/06/06
Posts: 441
Loc: Greenwich, CT
Hey Pianomadam,

did you forget to go over to the other IP address and post as cklavier? Oops!!! I wonder if the moderator is catching this!
_________________________
Musician, Singer, Teacher, Humorist, Dad...

Member of the Faust Harrison Pianos sales team.

Top
#59759 - 01/12/09 10:32 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
Beacon Chris Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/06/06
Posts: 441
Loc: Greenwich, CT
Ah!

You just edited the post! Rascal.

BC
_________________________
Musician, Singer, Teacher, Humorist, Dad...

Member of the Faust Harrison Pianos sales team.

Top
#59760 - 01/12/09 11:01 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
DanLaura Larson Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/01/08
Posts: 695
Loc: Pocatello, Idaho
Oh my gosh, that is too funny Beacon. \:D
_________________________
Dan and Laura Larson
Fazioli and Ibach grands
Larson Piano Studio
http://www.stoneformsart.com/

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#59761 - 01/12/09 11:06 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
Beacon Chris Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/06/06
Posts: 441
Loc: Greenwich, CT
DanLaura,

Did you see that too? I tried to use the quote button and save the whole thing but it was already edited. I'm not good with the quotes.

I did manage the copy & paste function on my own computer and this is what she wrote:


"Thank you everybody! The Walter is the one piano I have not tried yet and, if they are not available for less than $5,000 I guess I'll scratch that! I'm leaning a little more to the Essex given the Steinway pedigree. I know there is a lot of debate around here about the Steinway-designed thing, but I think it's overblown a little! Can anybody tell me a little more about their impressions of the t-116?

--------------------
PianoMadam

Family of Steinway-Designed Pianos (Steinway & Sons, Boston, Essex) Dealer"


BC \:D \:D \:D
_________________________
Musician, Singer, Teacher, Humorist, Dad...

Member of the Faust Harrison Pianos sales team.

Top
#59762 - 01/12/09 11:08 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
Catlady Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 03/27/03
Posts: 442
Loc: Arlington,VA
Hey Chris!
Isn't it past your bedtime???
_________________________
Cathy Harl - former piano dealer and tech.
Currently making and designing jewelry.

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#59763 - 01/12/09 11:13 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
Beacon Chris Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/06/06
Posts: 441
Loc: Greenwich, CT
I'm just catching up with some of those "liars & Cheats" !!!!!

BC ;\)
_________________________
Musician, Singer, Teacher, Humorist, Dad...

Member of the Faust Harrison Pianos sales team.

Top
#59764 - 01/12/09 11:14 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7089
Loc: torrance, CA
Chris,

I don't understand (and I desperately want to \:D ).

Did a post appear addressed to cklavier that was from cklavier?
_________________________
Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier

Top
#59765 - 01/12/09 11:21 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
Beacon Chris Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/06/06
Posts: 441
Loc: Greenwich, CT
T,

Pianomadam's most recent post contained this text when I came to the the thread:

Thank you everybody! The Walter is the one piano I have not tried yet and, if they are not available for less than $5,000 I guess I'll scratch that! I'm leaning a little more to the Essex given the Steinway pedigree. I know there is a lot of debate around here about the Steinway-designed thing, but I think it's overblown a little! Can anybody tell me a little more about their impressions of the t-116?

--------------------
PianoMadam

Family of Steinway-Designed Pianos (Steinway & Sons, Boston, Essex) Dealer

I copied the thread because I realized that she obviously posts as this thread starter and her intentions were to post the above post as cklavier - however, she was signed in as Pianomadam so she saw her error and quickly edited before I could use and figure out the quote function (I still don't know how). I had, however, saved her original post!

Understand?

BC
_________________________
Musician, Singer, Teacher, Humorist, Dad...

Member of the Faust Harrison Pianos sales team.

Top
#59766 - 01/12/09 11:24 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7089
Loc: torrance, CA
Oh man! I'm reminded of those Southwest Airline commericals...."wanna get away?" Too funny!!!!!
_________________________
Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier

Top
#59767 - 01/12/09 11:25 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
Beacon Chris Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/06/06
Posts: 441
Loc: Greenwich, CT
I can't believe I was on here just as it was happening. Frankly, I've been suspect of all these Essex threads lately!

BC
_________________________
Musician, Singer, Teacher, Humorist, Dad...

Member of the Faust Harrison Pianos sales team.

Top
#59768 - 01/12/09 11:26 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
Catlady Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 03/27/03
Posts: 442
Loc: Arlington,VA
OMG!!! \:D
I was thinking the exact same thing!
_________________________
Cathy Harl - former piano dealer and tech.
Currently making and designing jewelry.

Top
#59769 - 01/12/09 11:30 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
Beacon Chris Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/06/06
Posts: 441
Loc: Greenwich, CT
I think we scared her away for the night.

COME BACK TO US, PIANOMADAM!!

BC ;\)
_________________________
Musician, Singer, Teacher, Humorist, Dad...

Member of the Faust Harrison Pianos sales team.

Top
#59770 - 01/12/09 11:31 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
DarkGreenChocolate Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/31/08
Posts: 307
Loc: Michigan
IMHO, two silly things have been said so far.

1) Why ask for advice and then say you're not interested in a full range of suggestions? More to the point, why on earth would you limit a search to three brands? Particularly if you live in Philly, you have an embarrassment of riches, potentially, to choose from, and the biggest mistake you can make, it seems to me, would be over-selectivity/prejudice.

2) The Essex has about as much in common with the Steinway as a Pontiac Vibe (Toyota Matrix) does with a Chevy Tahoe--maybe less. Did Steinway "design" it? I don't know what that means. What I do know is that it plays suspiciously like a Pearl River, and nothing at all like a Steinway. Does that make it a bad choice? Not necessarily. But keep it real, please. Maybe the warranty, "trade-up" policy, dealer network, etc. make the Essex worthwhile for some people, but don't kid yourself--it is NOT, in any meaningful way, a Steinway.

I've never seen or played a Charles Walter, but I've found, empirically, that hand-built pianos tend to be superior to mass-produced ones, and I feel, non-empirically, that it's awfully nice to support a small, independent, and/or American company whenever possible. That's not in any way a statement against Asian businesses, but simply a recognition that American piano companies are a seriously endangered species.

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#59771 - 01/13/09 12:15 AM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
Rod Verhnjak Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/09/06
Posts: 3636
Loc: Vancouver B.C. Canada
Wow
_________________________
Verhnjak Pianos
Specializing in the Restoration, Refinishing & Maintenance
of Fine Heirloom Pianos

Exclusive Dealer For Charles R. Walter Pianos
www.pianoman.ca
Verhnjak Pianos Facebook


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#59772 - 01/13/09 12:26 AM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7089
Loc: torrance, CA
Chocolate,

Don't get hung up on the props...... be they Walter, Essex or Yamaha. This was simply great theater, to be savored like a last row seat at the Wiener Volksoper. \:D

Just think of the effort, emotion, and desperation that goes into this kind of dialogue with one's inner being.
_________________________
Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier

Top
#59773 - 01/13/09 12:37 AM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
Diaphragmatic Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 422
not a good time to shpeeel
_________________________
Musically Yours,
Jonathan Hunt

Sales Professional:
Steinway, Boston, Essex, Kohler & Campbell

The Music Gallery
Clearwater, Fl.

Top
#59774 - 01/13/09 12:44 AM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
Diaphragmatic Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 422
not a good time to shpeeel..
_________________________
Musically Yours,
Jonathan Hunt

Sales Professional:
Steinway, Boston, Essex, Kohler & Campbell

The Music Gallery
Clearwater, Fl.

Top
#59775 - 01/13/09 01:07 AM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7089
Loc: torrance, CA
Good call Jonathan. I read the "shpeeel" and pushed the post button to respond. When the reply box came up, poof....the spiel was gone. \:D

Props to you for posting in your own name with complete affiliation. Keep your cool and you can offset any collateral damage and embarrassment caused by others who claim to represent the same company that you do. Oh....and about those talking points... :
_________________________
Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier

Top
#59776 - 01/13/09 01:10 AM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
Furtwangler Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 1474
Loc: Danville, California
This is really hilarious.

So not only is she an idiot, but she is dishonest to boot. Gee, who woulda thought?

Another nail in the coffin.

Good catch, Chris.

Top
#59777 - 01/13/09 01:22 AM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
Bear 1 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/28/06
Posts: 1348
Loc: Hillsboro Beach South Florida
Chris,

You da man! \:\)

Bear
_________________________
Barry J "Bear" Arnaut ♫
46 Years in the Piano Industry
Retired Kawai/Shigeru Kawai Regional Manager
(My posts and threads are my opinions only)

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