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#597639 - 10/22/04 05:32 PM Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
starms Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/22/04
Posts: 29
Loc: Leicester, UK
Hi,

I was just wondering...

Can anybody on these forums play Franz Liszt's Hungarian Rhapsody No 2?

I've always thought that this is one of the most brilliant and complicated works of art ever invented and has been someting that I have been striving to learn for about 4 months (although not as much as I would like) and can only play parts of it.

I consider this to be one of the hardest pieces to play across the board, it this the general concensus? If not what do you consider to be the most difficult piece to play from the classical/romantic eara (that sounds rhythmically intact)?

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#597640 - 10/22/04 05:40 PM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
valarking Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/17/02
Posts: 2331
Loc: Dallas
 Quote:
Originally posted by starms:
I consider this to be one of the hardest pieces to play across the board, it this the general concensus? If not what do you consider to be the most difficult piece to play from the classical/romantic eara (that sounds rhythmically intact)? [/b]
Most everything by Alkan makes this seem like Hanon.

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#597641 - 10/22/04 05:41 PM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
F. Chopin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/26/03
Posts: 386
Loc: England
The most difficult significant work from the Classical period would generally be acknowledged as Beethoven's "Hammerklavier" sonata, Opus 106. From the Romantic era I'm not so sure; Alkan's "Grande Sonate" is extremely difficult but comparitively unknown. There are many very difficult works from the Romantic era.

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#597642 - 10/22/04 05:50 PM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
starms Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/22/04
Posts: 29
Loc: Leicester, UK
I'll definately have to take a look at Alkan's work...

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#597643 - 10/22/04 05:53 PM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
valarking Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/17/02
Posts: 2331
Loc: Dallas
Knock yourself out.
http://piano.francais.free.fr/alkan/04_partitions_en.html

Op. 39 No. 12 is particularly frightening.

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#597644 - 10/22/04 05:58 PM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
Šanor Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/02
Posts: 1232
Loc: Santiago, Chile
hm... Alkan.... I can't find the "music" in his scores... just a personal opinion...
_________________________
ss ao lr ue dt on si .u dq ar no on ra qd u. is no td eu rl oa ss

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#597645 - 10/22/04 06:00 PM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
F. Chopin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/26/03
Posts: 386
Loc: England
Šanor: supposedly a lot of people would agree with you, hence why he is (was?) so unknown compared to other great pianist/composers of his time.

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#597646 - 10/22/04 06:05 PM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
starms Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/22/04
Posts: 29
Loc: Leicester, UK
I'm listening to Op 33 'Quasi Faust' at the minute, I'm about 5 1/2 minuts through, some parts of the track seem to be very good, others seem to sound a little 'unstructured' to me. But I think its the sort of thing you need to listen to a few times to appreciate.

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#597647 - 10/22/04 06:10 PM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
Šanor Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/02
Posts: 1232
Loc: Santiago, Chile
 Quote:
Originally posted by F. Chopin:
Šanor: supposedly a lot of people would agree with you, hence why he is (was?) so unknown compared to other great pianist/composers of his time. [/b]
self answered
_________________________
ss ao lr ue dt on si .u dq ar no on ra qd u. is no td eu rl oa ss

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#597648 - 10/22/04 06:23 PM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
valarking Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/17/02
Posts: 2331
Loc: Dallas
 Quote:
Originally posted by Šanor:
 Quote:
Originally posted by F. Chopin:
Šanor: supposedly a lot of people would agree with you, hence why he is (was?) so unknown compared to other great pianist/composers of his time. [/b]
self answered [/b]
His comment was a statement, not a question.

As for Alkan, I think he's ok in short doses. His pieces start out great, but tend to ramble.

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#597649 - 10/22/04 06:27 PM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
starms Offline
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Registered: 10/22/04
Posts: 29
Loc: Leicester, UK
From the piece I heard earler, I agree. Although I need to listen to a couple more to form a more accurate oppinion.

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#597650 - 10/22/04 06:34 PM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
F. Chopin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/26/03
Posts: 386
Loc: England
Listen to the track here: (called "Alkan.ogg")

www.streamload.com/uploaded

It's the second movement of the Grande Sonate (11m 43s long) and I think it displays both his extreme virtuosity and his compositional skill.

I didn't want to upload the whole thing right now as it takes ages.

EDIT: doh, it may take a few mins to come up.

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#597651 - 10/22/04 06:34 PM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
rach3 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 111
op.39 #12 is so insane sounding its hilarious

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#597652 - 10/22/04 06:37 PM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
valarking Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/17/02
Posts: 2331
Loc: Dallas
 Quote:
Originally posted by starms:
From the piece I heard earler, I agree. Although I need to listen to a couple more to form a more accurate oppinion. [/b]
They're all veeeery similar.

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#597653 - 10/22/04 06:46 PM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
starms Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/22/04
Posts: 29
Loc: Leicester, UK
Op. 39 starts off okay, but after about a minute... \:\/

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#597654 - 10/22/04 06:50 PM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
starms Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/22/04
Posts: 29
Loc: Leicester, UK
Thought I should post a link to HR 2, considering its in the title. I love this piece...

http://www.classicalarchives.com/m/023/lis_hr2.mid

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#597655 - 10/22/04 10:08 PM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
valarking Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/17/02
Posts: 2331
Loc: Dallas
Out of curiosity, have you seen the sheetmusic to HR 2?

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#597656 - 10/22/04 10:50 PM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
Deus ex Pianoforte Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/28/04
Posts: 346
Loc: California
I started this piece about two months ago and I'm almost done with it now. The main difficulty I had with this piece is the rapid jumps you need to make with the left hand. Some of the chords require awkward fingering to execute properly as well. The good thing about learning this piece is that most of the technical obstacles can be hurdled with just lots and lots of practice. Once your hands get used to the fingering and know exactly what to do, it isn't very difficult to play. What other advanced pieces have you learned so far?

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#597657 - 10/23/04 03:46 AM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
starms Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/22/04
Posts: 29
Loc: Leicester, UK
 Quote:
Originally posted by valarking:
Out of curiosity, have you seen the sheetmusic to HR 2? [/b]
I have a copy in PDF format, its so complicated that parts of it are hand-written because there are too many notes to fit on the stave LOL

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#597658 - 10/23/04 04:13 AM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
starms Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/22/04
Posts: 29
Loc: Leicester, UK
Deus,

HR2 is by far the most difficult piece I have learnt, and I still can't play all the way through (I also had to reinvent some of it because I dont have space for a Paino and only have 6 octaves to play arouond with).

Next down the scale are Mozarts K. 331c (Turkish Rhondo) And Griegs March of the Trolls. I think these are way easier to play than HR2 (Although the third part of 331c is a little difficult).

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#597659 - 10/23/04 04:38 AM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
Max W Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/02
Posts: 2846
Loc: RHUL
#2 is pretty tame, I think...compared to the rest of Liszt's works at least, in fact it's one of the more accessible pieces I think.

And...don't diss Alkan! People who say that he lacks structure are pretty vain, as he was in fact a master of counterpoint.

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#597660 - 10/23/04 09:59 AM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
valarking Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/17/02
Posts: 2331
Loc: Dallas
 Quote:
Originally posted by Max W:
And...don't diss Alkan! People who say that he lacks structure are pretty vain, as he was in fact a master of counterpoint. [/b]
Overall I like Alkan. His structure, on a micro level like counterpoint is very good. But if you look at the larger picture, that's where he suffers. I'm tired of hearing a piece start really well and then digress into several unrelated, often boring melodies before going back to the A section for the coda. It seems like ALL of his stuff is like that.

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#597661 - 10/23/04 10:06 AM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
snap_apple Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/21/03
Posts: 710
When you first are getting into the piano literature the rhapsody does seem to be the great and brilliant piece of art. However as you start getting aquatinted with more composers and their styles and as you become acquainted with more music you start to really realize what the greatest pieces of music are and why they are great. The rhapsody is a fun piece written to dazzle and excite while incorporating fun and popular gypsy tunes. And where as it's true that it is brilliant in terms of pianistic writing and rock and roll like quality it would hardly be considered the greatest nor the hardest work of all time.

If I were you I would start listening to more liszt, chopin, Shumann and Rachmaninoff. They are all great examples of the romantic era and they are all pretty easy to grasp musically (save maybe Shumann). Mainly because they all write nice lyrical melodies, beautiful harmonies and full of virtuosic piano playing. I don't consider these guys the best but they seem to be the easiest composers to enjoy when first getting into the classical repertoire. From their you'll come to realize why Bach, Beethoven and Mozart truly kick a**

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#597662 - 10/23/04 10:45 AM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
Max W Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/02
Posts: 2846
Loc: RHUL
 Quote:
Originally posted by valarking:
 Quote:
Originally posted by Max W:
And...don't diss Alkan! People who say that he lacks structure are pretty vain, as he was in fact a master of counterpoint. [/b]
Overall I like Alkan. His structure, on a micro level like counterpoint is very good. But if you look at the larger picture, that's where he suffers. I'm tired of hearing a piece start really well and then digress into several unrelated, often boring melodies before going back to the A section for the coda. It seems like ALL of his stuff is like that. [/b]
I suppose it depends on what your definition of boring is. ;\)

For example "Le Preux" does that, but I think it's a great piece.

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#597663 - 10/23/04 01:41 PM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
The 89th Key Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 2400
Loc: Northern Virginia
The symphonic version of HR2 is one of my favorites...I started learning HR2 on piano but got sidetracked with Beethoven's Pathetique sonata, I'd like to eventually go back to it though. HR2 is quite challenging, but not impossible.
_________________________
-The 89th Key

www.thecollegecritic.com
--- Integrity | Loyalty | Simplicity ---[/b]

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#597664 - 10/23/04 05:32 PM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
NAK Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/20/04
Posts: 2561
Loc: Canada
 Quote:
Originally posted by valarking:
Op. 39 No. 12 is particularly frightening. [/b]
No kidding, eh? I just listened to it. The first bit of the main theme sounds like variations on "The Itsy Bitsy Spider". \:D

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#597665 - 10/23/04 06:06 PM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
starms Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/22/04
Posts: 29
Loc: Leicester, UK
I really did laugh at that one..

i thought of the same myself yesterday...

One thing similar that illudes myself, but I'm sure is common knowledge (and on the same subject) is K. 300e...

Did Mozart invent 'twinkle twinkle', or was 300e based around it?

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#597666 - 10/23/04 07:41 PM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
valarking Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/17/02
Posts: 2331
Loc: Dallas
He just wrote variations on it.

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#597667 - 10/25/04 09:27 PM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
paulie567 Offline
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Registered: 05/04/02
Posts: 160
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Check out this recording of Rachmaninoff playing Liszt's HR2 -- if you can mentally tune out all the hiss and scratching it quickly becomes clear what an amazing pianist Rachmaninoff was.

http://classic.manual.ru/Rachmaninov-performer/Liszt_VengRhap_2.html

I've never heard such an incredible performance, in Bugs Bunny cartoons or anywhere else... :-)

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#597668 - 10/25/04 10:00 PM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
Vladtepes Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/25/04
Posts: 2
Loc: New York City
I think that "les études transcendantes de Liszt" are much harder than the HR2 and the Prélude 16th of Chopin is also pretty hard.
But you should try to play Un Sospiro it's much nicer than the HR2

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#597669 - 10/25/04 10:04 PM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
NAK Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/20/04
Posts: 2561
Loc: Canada
Welcome to the forums, Vladtepes!

paulie567, I'm listening to the rhapsody right now. So far, I think it's okay, but it's a bit too -- how do you say -- empty. He could use the damper pedal a bit more. :p

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#597670 - 10/26/04 01:28 AM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
Deus ex Pianoforte Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/28/04
Posts: 346
Loc: California
 Quote:
Originally posted by paulie567:
Check out this recording of Rachmaninoff playing Liszt's HR2 -- if you can mentally tune out all the hiss and scratching it quickly becomes clear what an amazing pianist Rachmaninoff was.

http://classic.manual.ru/Rachmaninov-performer/Liszt_VengRhap_2.html

I've never heard such an incredible performance, in Bugs Bunny cartoons or anywhere else... :-) [/b]
Really? I found that recording fairly dull and uninteresting...especially his cadenza. But that's just me. Have you heard Horowitz playing his transcription of the piece? It's pretty amazing in my opinion.

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#597671 - 10/26/04 04:53 AM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
AndrewG Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 2506
Loc: Denver, Colorado
 Quote:
Originally posted by Šanor:
hm... Alkan.... I can't find the "music" in his scores... just a personal opinion... [/b]
I'm with Danor all the way. I'm teaching my daughter Alkan's Barcarolle. This little piece is beautiful and technically easy. His music to me is some sort of side dish. Not a main course thing. I don't get much out of it besides the pyrotechnics.

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#597672 - 10/26/04 09:10 AM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
Max W Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/02
Posts: 2846
Loc: RHUL
 Quote:
Originally posted by NAK:
Welcome to the forums, Vladtepes!

paulie567, I'm listening to the rhapsody right now. So far, I think it's okay, but it's a bit too -- how do you say -- empty. He could use the damper pedal a bit more. :p [/b]
Perhaps it's a Russian thing.

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#597673 - 10/27/04 08:59 AM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
starms Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/22/04
Posts: 29
Loc: Leicester, UK
 Quote:
Originally posted by paulie567:
Check out this recording of Rachmaninoff playing Liszt's HR2 -- if you can mentally tune out all the hiss and scratching it quickly becomes clear what an amazing pianist Rachmaninoff was.

http://classic.manual.ru/Rachmaninov-performer/Liszt_VengRhap_2.html

I've never heard such an incredible performance, in Bugs Bunny cartoons or anywhere else... :-) [/b]
I quite like this piece, was the part from 8:30 onwards in Liszt's original score or did Rachmaninoff add that bit himself?

The only disappointment to the piece was probably the beginning, which didn't seem to be played with enough emotion (perhaps too 'staccato' for my liking)

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#597674 - 10/27/04 09:13 AM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
NAK Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/20/04
Posts: 2561
Loc: Canada
^^ That is what I was thinking.

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#597675 - 10/27/04 09:20 AM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
Mikester Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 1254
Loc: Minneesooota
I'm not about to get into a "whose piece is more difficult" thing, but don't forget La Campanella. I just can't imagine taking so many risky jumps in the middle of a recital or competition. I'm already nervous enough playing pieces that don't require much leaping around.

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#597676 - 10/27/04 10:06 AM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
starms Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/22/04
Posts: 29
Loc: Leicester, UK
I have just had a listen to the La Campanella piece, It's definately one of Liszt's better compositions. I may try and learn it if I'm ever done with HR2.

I have also found out that Rachmaninoff did write a cadenza for HR2, so I'm presuming that that was 8:30 on that 1919 recording was.

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#597677 - 10/27/04 10:15 AM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
Deus ex Pianoforte Offline
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Registered: 04/28/04
Posts: 346
Loc: California
Liszt wants you to use your own cadenza for the Rhapsody, as he has it marked "cadenza ad libitum" at measure 420. He wrote a full series of cadenzas for this piece, but I think Rachmaninoff invented his own. Either way, I'm still maintaining that Horowitz's performance blows this recording completely out of the water. :p

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#597678 - 10/27/04 10:19 AM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
Pathbreaker Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 1036
Loc: Massachusetts
 Quote:
Originally posted by Vladtepes:

But you should try to play Un Sospiro it's much nicer than the HR2 [/b]
i completely agree.

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#597679 - 10/27/04 10:20 AM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
BruceD Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 17836
Loc: Victoria, BC
... if "nice" is what you want, yes.
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Estonia 190

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#597680 - 10/27/04 10:23 AM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
Pathbreaker Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 1036
Loc: Massachusetts
maybe i shouldn't have quoted him. i just prefer the piece in general. and it also happens to be "nice" too :p

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#597681 - 10/27/04 10:26 AM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
starms Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/22/04
Posts: 29
Loc: Leicester, UK
 Quote:
Originally posted by Deus ex Pianoforte:
Liszt wants you to use your own cadenza for the Rhapsody, as he has it marked "cadenza ad libitum" at measure 420.[/b]
Cool, If I ever get that far I'm definately going to write my own then ;\)

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#597682 - 10/27/04 11:15 AM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
Mikester Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 1254
Loc: Minneesooota
Have you ever heard Cziffra's recording? It's ... orgasmic.

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#597683 - 10/27/04 12:28 PM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
Max W Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/02
Posts: 2846
Loc: RHUL
Yup. I've heard 2, the studio and a live one, couldnt tell you where the live one was from.

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#597684 - 10/28/04 11:52 PM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
paulie567 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/04/02
Posts: 160
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
> paulie567, I'm listening to the rhapsody right now. So far, I think it's okay, but it's a bit too -- how do you say -- empty. He could use the damper pedal a bit more

I think it might just be the lousy recording quality, you're right it does seem a bit staccato. Re. Horowitz's version, I haven't heard it so I'll have to check that out.

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#597685 - 10/29/04 07:57 AM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
Max W Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/02
Posts: 2846
Loc: RHUL
Hough has a great HR 2.

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#597686 - 10/30/04 03:29 PM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
JOE SCHMOE Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/30/04
Posts: 102
Loc: Ohio, US
I'm 14 - I was just recently learning HR2, I got through the lassan, but then I had to put it on hold to learn Chopin's 1st Concerto in E minor for a music festival. My favorite piece (although I can't play it yet) is Chopin's 2nd Scherzo in Bb minor - it is definately much harder than HR2. However above all, one of the most chalenging pieces of all time is also by Liszt - it's La Campanella (which I can most certainly not play). It is definatelly one of the hardest pieces not only from the romantic era, but in all of piano music. If you have any doubts, just get a recording of it and the music and watch the notes go by on the page. In one measure it even has 64th notes!
_________________________
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#597687 - 10/30/04 03:32 PM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
valarking Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/17/02
Posts: 2331
Loc: Dallas
 Quote:
Originally posted by Bando Commando:
However above all, one of the most chalenging pieces of all time is also by Liszt - it's La Campanella (which I can most certainly not play). It is definatelly one of the hardest pieces not only from the romantic era, but in all of piano music.[/b]
Hahahaha... haha.. ha... hahaha...

If I set to it, I could do La Campanella right now. However, just about everything else I want to play is way out of my reach. Therefor, Everything-else-thats-good > La Campanella

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#597688 - 10/30/04 11:33 PM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
NAK Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/20/04
Posts: 2561
Loc: Canada
VK, how long have you been playing?

Not that I care, really.

NAK

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#597689 - 10/31/04 05:43 PM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
valarking Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/17/02
Posts: 2331
Loc: Dallas
Almost 3 years now NAK.

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#597690 - 10/31/04 06:45 PM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
NAK Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/20/04
Posts: 2561
Loc: Canada
And you could manage La Campanella!? I really need to practice more! \:D

Not that I care, really.

NAK

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#597691 - 10/31/04 06:55 PM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
valarking Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/17/02
Posts: 2331
Loc: Dallas
 Quote:
Originally posted by NAK:
And you could manage La Campanella!? I really need to practice more! \:D

Not that I care, really.

NAK [/b]
I think that I could learn it, just like I could probably learn Alkan's Comme la Vent, except to a lesser degree ;\) . I would have to go over it measure by measure, taking months, and finally I would have a performance that I wouldn't really have control over. No, I think I will put that one along with Ravel's Gaspard (which I couldn't do right now \:D ) in my "to do one of these days" pile. Right now I'm pursuing pieces that I actually can control and learn relatively quickly.

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#597692 - 10/31/04 07:53 PM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
virtuoso418 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/29/03
Posts: 645
 Quote:
Originally posted by valarking:
Almost 3 years now NAK. [/b]
3 years wont be enough. I mean, you could still learn la campanella if you nit-pick every single measure and have an overwhelming desire to learn it but you'll probably end up with months(maybe more) sticking to it if you try.

Good laugh though.

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#597693 - 10/31/04 08:14 PM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
WCSMinorCircuit Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/11/04
Posts: 1124
Loc: California
here here
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#597694 - 10/31/04 08:38 PM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
NAK Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/20/04
Posts: 2561
Loc: Canada
VK, I see what you mean. At least you're not one of those idiots who wastes months on a piece that you know you won't be able to handle.

Not that I care, really.

NAK

Top
#597695 - 11/01/04 08:23 AM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
Max W Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/02
Posts: 2846
Loc: RHUL
 Quote:
Originally posted by Bando Commando:
I'm 14 - I was just recently learning HR2, I got through the lassan, but then I had to put it on hold to learn Chopin's 1st Concerto in E minor for a music festival. My favorite piece (although I can't play it yet) is Chopin's 2nd Scherzo in Bb minor - it is definately much harder than HR2. However above all, one of the most chalenging pieces of all time is also by Liszt - it's La Campanella (which I can most certainly not play). It is definatelly one of the hardest pieces not only from the romantic era, but in all of piano music. If you have any doubts, just get a recording of it and the music and watch the notes go by on the page. In one measure it even has 64th notes! [/b]
Man, it MUST be the hardest piece if it has 64th notes..

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#597696 - 11/01/04 08:34 AM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
CrashTest Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/23/01
Posts: 4110
When I was only playing for about 2 years I did try La Campanella. Sure, I memorized all of the notes and was able to play it half assed from beginning to end, but maybe I would not do it again. It is better when you are more prepared technically and musically so you can fully interpret the piece in a shorter amount of time.

I only did it because I had an insatiable desire to learn it, but it was a good experience regardless. It is a lot safer to build up to such pieces, with easier works one after the other until you are ready.

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#597697 - 11/01/04 09:09 AM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
valarking Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/17/02
Posts: 2331
Loc: Dallas
 Quote:
Originally posted by virtuoso418:
 Quote:
Originally posted by valarking:
Almost 3 years now NAK. [/b]
3 years wont be enough. I mean, you could still learn la campanella if you nit-pick every single measure and have an overwhelming desire to learn it but you'll probably end up with months(maybe more) sticking to it if you try.

Good laugh though. [/b]
How about this. You do these easy, simple steps:
1. Read my post right before yours.
2. Read it again V-E-R-Y S-L-O-W-L-Y.
3. Repeat steps 1 and 2 until you comprehend my post
4. Get your mother to check that you actually did comprehend it

Next time, read before you post, Mr. "Virtuoso". ( :rolleyes: ).
If it matters, I don't really think you could handle La Camanella, as long as we all know everything.

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#597698 - 11/01/04 02:24 PM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
virtuoso418 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/29/03
Posts: 645
 Quote:
Originally posted by valarking:

4. Get your mother to check that you actually did comprehend it

[/b]
This coming from you?


Belligerent little fella, arent ya

Top
#597699 - 11/01/04 04:20 PM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
MMSGA Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/21/04
Posts: 393
 Quote:
Originally posted by virtuoso418:
 Quote:
Originally posted by valarking:

4. Get your mother to check that you actually did comprehend it

[/b]
This coming from you?


Belligerent little fella, arent ya [/b]
Ahhh.. youth.

I wish I knew now, as much as I did when I was his age.

\:\)

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#597700 - 11/01/04 04:47 PM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
valarking Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/17/02
Posts: 2331
Loc: Dallas
 Quote:
Originally posted by virtuoso418:
 Quote:
Originally posted by valarking:

4. Get your mother to check that you actually did comprehend it

[/b]
This coming from you?


Belligerent little fella, arent ya [/b]
I honestly doubt that you are over the age of 13. That's pretty generous too.

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#597701 - 11/01/04 05:47 PM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
MMSGA Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/21/04
Posts: 393
 Quote:
Originally posted by valarking:
 Quote:
Originally posted by virtuoso418:
 Quote:
Originally posted by valarking:

4. Get your mother to check that you actually did comprehend it

[/b]
This coming from you?


Belligerent little fella, arent ya [/b]
I honestly doubt that you are over the age of 13. That's pretty generous too. [/b]
At the risk of being called a nosey newcomer, I think a read through of virtuoso418's posts will show that the grammar and syntax are far beyond even the most able teenager.
Coherence and maturity are usually highly correlated.
\:\)

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#597702 - 11/01/04 06:14 PM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
valarking Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/17/02
Posts: 2331
Loc: Dallas
"Coherence and maturity are usually highly correlated."

Not really.

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#597703 - 11/01/04 06:25 PM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
WCSMinorCircuit Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/11/04
Posts: 1124
Loc: California
why not?
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#597704 - 11/01/04 07:11 PM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
NAK Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/20/04
Posts: 2561
Loc: Canada
 Quote:
Originally posted by JosephS.:
why not? [/b]
Because anyone could just sit down and spew out a bunch of overused rhetoric and still be an idiot.

Not that I care, really.

NAK

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#597705 - 11/01/04 07:16 PM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
NAK Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/20/04
Posts: 2561
Loc: Canada
MMSGA, I take it this isn't one of the posts that exemplifies virtuoso418's grammatical skills.

 Quote:
Originally posted by virtuoso418:
Cool. He's one of my favs. I have some of his CDs but never got to see him in concert. Now I jealous. [/b]
Not that I care, really.

NAK

Top
#597706 - 11/01/04 07:30 PM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
valarking Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/17/02
Posts: 2331
Loc: Dallas
 Quote:
Originally posted by NAK:
MMSGA, I take it this isn't one of the posts that exemplifies virtuoso418's grammatical skills.

 Quote:
Originally posted by virtuoso418:
Cool. He's one of my favs. I have some of his CDs but never got to see him in concert. Now I jealous. [/b]
Not that I care, really.

NAK [/b]
Haha...

 Quote:
Not that I care, really.

NAK
You need to make that your sig.

Top
#597707 - 11/01/04 07:30 PM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
MMSGA Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/21/04
Posts: 393
 Quote:
Originally posted by NAK:]Not that I care, really.

NAK [/QB]
Ah, but you DO!

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#597708 - 11/01/04 07:32 PM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
MMSGA Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/21/04
Posts: 393
 Quote:
Originally posted by valarking:
"Coherence and maturity are usually highly correlated."

Not really. [/b]
Actually, yes. Really...

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#597709 - 11/01/04 09:28 PM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
NAK Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/20/04
Posts: 2561
Loc: Canada
 Quote:
Originally posted by valarking:
 Quote:
Not that I care, really.

NAK
You need to make that your sig. [/b]
I'll try, but I don't think it will have the same effect. Here we go...

Top
#597710 - 11/01/04 09:30 PM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
NAK Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/20/04
Posts: 2561
Loc: Canada
Eh, I guess it's okay this way. \:\)

Top
#597711 - 11/01/04 09:30 PM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
valarking Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/17/02
Posts: 2331
Loc: Dallas
 Quote:
Originally posted by MMSGA:
 Quote:
Originally posted by valarking:
"Coherence and maturity are usually highly correlated."

Not really. [/b]
Actually, yes. Really... [/b]
NO. Not at all.
I know musical geniuses who don't even puncuate. They use the stupid ... marks to seperate thoughts. It's a pain in the *** to read, but some of them give incredible insight and stories. Likewise, there are idiots who take the time to pander to grammer police.

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#597712 - 11/01/04 09:51 PM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
MMSGA Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/21/04
Posts: 393
 Quote:
Originally posted by valarking:
 Quote:
Originally posted by MMSGA:
 Quote:
Originally posted by valarking:
"Coherence and maturity are usually highly correlated."

Not really. [/b]
Actually, yes. Really... [/b]
NO. Not at all.
I know musical geniuses who don't even puncuate. They use the stupid ... marks to seperate thoughts. It's a pain in the *** to read, but some of them give incredible insight and stories. Likewise, there are idiots who take the time to pander to grammer police. [/b]
Agreed. But, when you manage to get through the ..., it's worth it.
They are the people who can actually PLAY Campanella after 3 years of study, and not have to obsess over it, to the exclusion of more profitable study and technique development.

Are you a musical genius? And I mean that in the context of your own definitions...

Maybe you COULD play it after 3 years of intense study.

But pandering to the grammar police, (not to mention improving your education), would serve you better, than pandering to your obsessive need to be able to play ONE piece of music, badly.

When you grow up, and mature, you will understand what I, and others, have been hinting at.

Until then, this discussion, and others where you feel defensive, will revolve around vacuous statements and flawed reasoning.

Oh to be young and know everything...

Good luck with the Liszt.

Not that I care, really. \:\)

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#597713 - 11/01/04 10:02 PM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
valarking Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/17/02
Posts: 2331
Loc: Dallas
"Are you a musical genius?"
No.

Guys, let me sum up my previous posts, again, so nobody misunderstands me, again.

I could concievably do it with sufficient time and practice, but I choose not to[/b].

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#597714 - 11/01/04 10:22 PM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
MMSGA Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/21/04
Posts: 393
 Quote:
Originally posted by valarking:
"Are you a musical genius?"
No.

Guys, let me sum up my previous posts, again, so nobody misunderstands me, again.

I could concievably do it with sufficient time and practice, but I choose not to[/b]. [/b]
:)

Do you plan on returning to it at a later date?
I was mesmerised when I first heard it, many years ago, (along with the 2nd Rhapsody), and really wanted to give it a go.
However, it was obviously way too difficult, and I lost 'faith'. I don't plan on returning to it, as it is more beneficial for me to play other things. Likewise with the rhapsody. At the moment, neither are worth my while...

Mike

Top
#597715 - 11/02/04 08:56 AM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
Max W Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/02
Posts: 2846
Loc: RHUL
You're really overrating it. I think its quite achievable, granted it would take a few months but it's easily plausible for a 3 year pianist to learn it. It's all down to the way they are being taught (its my opinion that students who are pressured to do grades will never be able to catch up with the students who aren't)

Top
#597716 - 11/02/04 12:38 PM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
virtuoso418 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/29/03
Posts: 645
The problem with most teenagers (possibly even younger) is how provoked they are with "big" words, if there's such a thing. There are uncommonly used words, but that doesn't make it a big word. I love it when someone has to scrutinize someone else's word choice because it looks like an attempt to look intelligent, but that's a normal accusation.
Me, why do I choose this type of diction? It's simply the influence around me, i'm surrounding by people who speak like that. So i can't help it. But i'm not going to try to convince you if im intelligent or not.

And valaking, I love you how contradict yourself.


Top
#597717 - 11/02/04 01:59 PM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
Deus ex Pianoforte Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/28/04
Posts: 346
Loc: California
 Quote:
Originally posted by Max W:
You're really overrating it. I think its quite achievable, granted it would take a few months but it's easily plausible for a 3 year pianist to learn it. It's all down to the way they are being taught (its my opinion that students who are pressured to do grades will never be able to catch up with the students who aren't) [/b]
Wow, I must really suck then. \:\( I mean, I've been playing for maybe 6-8 years and I still haven't mastered the Rhapsody after 6 months of study. Is this way below average or what?

Top
#597718 - 11/02/04 02:53 PM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
Max W Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/02
Posts: 2846
Loc: RHUL
Yeah you suck! :p

No, of course different people have different speeds of learning, its all subjective anyway I was just generalising.

When you say 'haven't mastered' HR2, what do you mean? Learnt all the notes and working on getting it to speed?

Top
#597719 - 11/02/04 04:02 PM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
valarking Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/17/02
Posts: 2331
Loc: Dallas
 Quote:
Originally posted by MMSGA:
 Quote:
Originally posted by valarking:
"Are you a musical genius?"
No.

Guys, let me sum up my previous posts, again, so nobody misunderstands me, again.

I could concievably do it with sufficient time and practice, but I choose not to[/b]. [/b]
:)

Do you plan on returning to it at a later date?
I was mesmerised when I first heard it, many years ago, (along with the 2nd Rhapsody), and really wanted to give it a go.
However, it was obviously way too difficult, and I lost 'faith'. I don't plan on returning to it, as it is more beneficial for me to play other things. Likewise with the rhapsody. At the moment, neither are worth my while...

Mike [/b]
I may try it in a few years. It's basically a showpiece and there are others as well that I'd like to learn. It's a blast to play though and the leaping is not something that I have found terribly difficult. It does take some work though.

virtuoso:
If that's all you can come up with... :rolleyes:

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#597720 - 11/02/04 04:15 PM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
MMSGA Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/21/04
Posts: 393
 Quote:
Originally posted by valarking:
 Quote:
Originally posted by MMSGA:
 Quote:
Originally posted by valarking:
"Are you a musical genius?"
No.

Guys, let me sum up my previous posts, again, so nobody misunderstands me, again.

I could concievably do it with sufficient time and practice, but I choose not to[/b]. [/b]
:)

Do you plan on returning to it at a later date?
I was mesmerised when I first heard it, many years ago, (along with the 2nd Rhapsody), and really wanted to give it a go.
However, it was obviously way too difficult, and I lost 'faith'. I don't plan on returning to it, as it is more beneficial for me to play other things. Likewise with the rhapsody. At the moment, neither are worth my while...

Mike [/b]
I may try it in a few years. It's basically a showpiece and there are others as well that I'd like to learn. It's a blast to play though and the leaping is not something that I have found terribly difficult. It does take some work though.

virtuoso:
If that's all you can come up with... :rolleyes: [/b]
Yeah - a very visual piece, to be sure. Check out the original - the final movement of the 2nd violin concerto by Pag... It's a little different, but Liszt does a superb transcription. (His first transcription is a little 'thick', but the more popular version we hear, is 'better')..

Maybe you should check out all the Paganini Etudes, and put this into perspective. The 4th is accessible, and the 6th is very rich in sonority.

Top
#597721 - 11/02/04 05:08 PM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
valarking Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/17/02
Posts: 2331
Loc: Dallas
MMSGA, I've looked at the other Paganini etudes, both versions. While, yes, the 4th and 6th are perhaps easier than Camanella, the others...

Top
#597722 - 11/02/04 07:34 PM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
Deus ex Pianoforte Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/28/04
Posts: 346
Loc: California
 Quote:
Originally posted by Max W:

When you say 'haven't mastered' HR2, what do you mean? Learnt all the notes and working on getting it to speed? [/b]
Yeah, pretty much. I can play the piece from start to finish at a decent slowed tempo, but when I try to play several places at normal speed, I start to omit and hit wrong notes. It's like my left hand starts to panic if I go too fast and the rapid octave/chord-octave/chord leaps become impossible.

Top
#597723 - 11/02/04 08:17 PM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
valarking Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/17/02
Posts: 2331
Loc: Dallas
DP, I know what you mean...
You know what that means. ;\) Yep, that's right, SLOW PRACTICE! Mwahahaha...

Top
#597724 - 11/03/04 12:02 AM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
Deus ex Pianoforte Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/28/04
Posts: 346
Loc: California
Haha, I suppose so. It seems like the "P" word is the answer to 90% of problems with learning the piano.

Top
#597725 - 11/03/04 07:00 AM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
Reaper Man Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 273
I am learning it next semester for Uni, I have to do 1 Baroque Piece, 1 Classical, 1 Romantic and 2 20th Cent. So I would like to do the Hungarian Rhapsody no 2, however, no 4 is easier if your thinking of playing one of them.

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#597726 - 11/03/04 09:51 AM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
Max W Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/02
Posts: 2846
Loc: RHUL
 Quote:
Originally posted by Deus ex Pianoforte:
 Quote:
Originally posted by Max W:

When you say 'haven't mastered' HR2, what do you mean? Learnt all the notes and working on getting it to speed? [/b]
Yeah, pretty much. I can play the piece from start to finish at a decent slowed tempo, but when I try to play several places at normal speed, I start to omit and hit wrong notes. It's like my left hand starts to panic if I go too fast and the rapid octave/chord-octave/chord leaps become impossible. [/b]
Well I wouldn't put yourself down then, while the majority of the piece is managable there are some real tricky octave leaps \:\)

(I cant play them at the tempo I'd like to either)

Top
#597727 - 11/03/04 11:33 AM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
Requiem Aeternam Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 1395
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
This thread was hilarious
_________________________
"He who turns himself into a beast, gets rid of the pain of being a man."

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#597728 - 11/03/04 07:41 PM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
virtuoso418 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/29/03
Posts: 645
 Quote:
Originally posted by NAK:
MMSGA, I take it this isn't one of the posts that exemplifies virtuoso418's grammatical skills.

 Quote:
Originally posted by virtuoso418:
Cool. He's one of my favs. I have some of his CDs but never got to see him in concert. Now I jealous. [/b]
Not that I care, really.

NAK [/b]
You kind of...well...completely quoted the wrong person.

Top
#597729 - 11/03/04 09:49 PM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
NAK Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/20/04
Posts: 2561
Loc: Canada
 Quote:
Originally posted by virtuoso418:
 Quote:
Originally posted by NAK:
MMSGA, I take it this isn't one of the posts that exemplifies virtuoso418's grammatical skills.

 Quote:
Originally posted by virtuoso418:
Cool. He's one of my favs. I have some of his CDs but never got to see him in concert. Now I jealous. [/b]
Not that I care, really.

NAK [/b]
You kind of...well...completely quoted the wrong person. [/b]
I did?

Top
#597730 - 11/04/04 12:11 PM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
virtuoso418 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/29/03
Posts: 645

Top
#597731 - 11/04/04 04:53 PM Re: Franz Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
NAK Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/20/04
Posts: 2561
Loc: Canada
What the....I proof read it 3-4 times!! How.....? I've never been more confused in my life. Seriously.

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