Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter

OMG!!!
I was thinking the exact same thing!

I think we scared her away for the night.

COME BACK TO US, PIANOMADAM!!

BC

IMHO, two silly things have been said so far.

1) Why ask for advice and then say you're not interested in a full range of suggestions? More to the point, why on earth would you limit a search to three brands? Particularly if you live in Philly, you have an embarrassment of riches, potentially, to choose from, and the biggest mistake you can make, it seems to me, would be over-selectivity/prejudice.

2) The Essex has about as much in common with the Steinway as a Pontiac Vibe (Toyota Matrix) does with a Chevy Tahoe--maybe less. Did Steinway "design" it? I don't know what that means. What I do know is that it plays suspiciously like a Pearl River, and nothing at all like a Steinway. Does that make it a bad choice? Not necessarily. But keep it real, please. Maybe the warranty, "trade-up" policy, dealer network, etc. make the Essex worthwhile for some people, but don't kid yourself--it is NOT, in any meaningful way, a Steinway.

I've never seen or played a Charles Walter, but I've found, empirically, that hand-built pianos tend to be superior to mass-produced ones, and I feel, non-empirically, that it's awfully nice to support a small, independent, and/or American company whenever possible. That's not in any way a statement against Asian businesses, but simply a recognition that American piano companies are a seriously endangered species.

Wow

Chocolate,

Don't get hung up on the props...... be they Walter, Essex or Yamaha. This was simply great theater, to be savored like a last row seat at the Wiener Volksoper.

Just think of the effort, emotion, and desperation that goes into this kind of dialogue with one's inner being.

not a good time to shpeeel

not a good time to shpeeel..

Good call Jonathan. I read the "shpeeel" and pushed the post button to respond. When the reply box came up, poof....the spiel was gone.

Props to you for posting in your own name with complete affiliation. Keep your cool and you can offset any collateral damage and embarrassment caused by others who claim to represent the same company that you do. Oh....and about those talking points... :

This is really hilarious.

So not only is she an idiot, but she is dishonest to boot. Gee, who woulda thought?

Another nail in the coffin.

Good catch, Chris.

Chris,

You da man!

Bear

turandot,

My ambition to say as little as possible to keep emotions down has failed. I certainly don't claim to know everything, but I do try to only convey my opinion or facts that I'm aware of. Most of what I conveyed comes right out of Steinway's marketing DVD... and my local Steinway dealer. However, I have played both Essex and Pearl River and it's not a fair comparison.

To answer your question.. I'm not sure exactly what patents in particular they're using although I would imagine many. For instance in action design, soundboard, scale, plate, etc. It is common knowledge that chinesse labor is rediculously cheap. Else why are so many major piano manufacturers creating pianos and using chinesse labor to assemble them? Correct me if I am wrong, but I do not know of a chinesse piano manufacturer that's building pianos by hand. It is basically an assembled piano contracted by another company.

Look at Renner for example. Many piano companies have Renner make an action specific to their application for their piano. Because Renner is in the business of making actions. The chinesse are in the business of assembling pianos.

The Essex may be a "cookie-cutter" piano, but the cookie-cutter came from Steinway. Another clarification.. only the verticals and 5'1" grand are contracted by Pearl River. All the other Essex's are being contracted by Young Chang. The only concern I would have personally is the quality of assembly by the chinesse. However, since it is warrantied by Steinway there should be some peace of mind.

There are some companies that don't design the product at all I know. They simply have an already manufactured product put a different name on it and pass it off as a new product. Personally I think is marketing fraud. I'm not aware of which or if any piano companies are doing that, but Steinway is not. In fact, all the new Essex for 2009 are now going to bear the "designed by Steinway" right on the fallboard.

How much design is Steinway's? How many patents? I don't know. This is a good question for me to ask my dealer next time I'm in.

Any further insight is welcome. I'm not here to be right.. only trying to help and share my opinion.

I've read and re-read this thread and so have an idea of what happened with pianomadam and her shenanigans but can not be certain. Can those of you in the know please explain exactly what occured.

And what is shpeeel?

Mike

Me to, Marcus. I actually like the tone of the Essex, and have said that in this forum more than once. The clean forward tone is more pleasing to me than the tone of the Boston. Of course that's subjective, but I'm on record here for never knocking the Essex PIANO.

This however is not the place to debate the Essex since apparently the OP was only our beloved pianomadam asking a phony question with a phony name to prop up (of all things) the ESSEX.

I do think there is a danger when you might influence a potential buyer here with the 'knowledge' you glean from a company DVD. That 'knowledge' is all-too-readily available at the shop. When a member asks for advice in this forum, they are hoping to get beneath that surface veneer.

As far as I know, all Steinway patents expired decades ago. Any design element they offer is freely available to any other maker who would like to incorporate it into his own design. I have often read here as well that Steinway does not employ any designers and has not employed any designers for decades. I don't know if that's true, but on the occasions when it was stated, it was never challenged.

mdsdurango, this is what happened as I make it out....

it seems pianomadam posted the original thread starter 'pretending' to be someone interested in choosing between these 3 pianos... she then let a few replies trickle in from folks before 'replying' using her 'pianomadam' login to indicate she felt all were good choices but that the Essex was particularly 'neato'..

Beacon Chris however noticed a reply she had posted intending it to be from the OP 'CKlavier' thanking people for their advice and stating he was leaning towards the Essex...but she did so on the wrong IP address and login and quickly removed the post with the intention of re-posting it as CKlavier, but not quick enough as Chris not only saw it but managed to cut and paste it into a reply he was writing.... heheh - caught in the act marvellous - good spot to Chris more more!!

So pianomadam - not too smart on two counts;
In the opening posts cklivier (aka pianomadam) writes: "I finally played a Charles Walter and was more impressed by the cabinet than I was the feel and sound, but it was OK, too. It had a decent amount of depth."
In pianomadams (aka cklivier) original post (copied and pasted by Beacon Cris) she writes: "Thank you everybody! The Walter is the one piano I have not tried yet and, if they are not available for less than $5,000 I guess I'll scratch that!"

Proves that nobody is a good enough liar to keep their stories straight.
Suppose we will ever see pianomadam again?

Mike

Well since she likes to create psuedonymous posters I'm sure she will be around in some form. The sock puppet show would lose dynamics and texture without her here.

Dan

anyone who is not impressed with the CW doesn't know how to play very well.

That would be me, although I've yet to play a Walter.

I can play a rousing version of "She'll be Comin round the Mountain" though! It sounds real good on my S6!

Mike

Hey, BC. I just wanted to say that my Essex thread, despite any can of worms it may have opened, had absolutely NOTHING to do with pianomadam.