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#59808 - 01/14/09 01:05 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
mdsdurango Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/04
Posts: 1755
Loc: Durango Colorado
You make a good point POTUS, however as you can see even a "banned" participant of these forums can become - someone else. So I think that giving the offending party a good spanking, which was completed (I think) in her capture, and allowing her to continue to post as we all already know her is a far better option than her resurection as someone else.

This really is a "fair and balanced" community of piano lovers, and the forum does a pretty good job of self policing (as you've just witnessed). Please stick around and I am certain you will see for yourself, and enjoy the program.

Mike

PS, Congratulations on your new piano purchase.
_________________________
WHAT???????
Yamaha S6, U5C, P120
http://michaelstith.com

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#59809 - 01/14/09 01:06 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
windsound Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/09/08
Posts: 177
Loc: IL
I think the fair price range for an Essex 123 is $3000~$3500.

A Yamaha U1 is usually around $6000~$6500.

Better brand is priced higher.

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#59810 - 01/14/09 02:34 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
Monica K. Offline

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012


Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 17733
Loc: Lexington, Kentucky
 Quote:
Originally posted by POTUS:
Now I see that we're forced to be extremely skeptical even on a forum of piano lovers. And when someone is caught red handed and belatedly admits the obvious, it's considered "a testimony of great courage"?

Maybe others have more time to sift through the it all and figure out what is truthful here, but I think it'd be more helpful to the rest of us if this sort of thing was policed by the moderators and the related parties banned.
[/b]
I tend to side with POTUS on this one. Pardon me if I don't get caught up in the Pianomadam lovefest. She apologized only because she got caught. Who knows how often she's pulled this stunt in the past, and who knows how often she'll pull it again in the future. I agree with you, Mike, that we have no way of ensuring that she wouldn't just re-register under a new alias if she were banned... but I think that knowingly allowing her to continue posting is an even worse alternative.

Not having any kind of consequence for this kind of misbehavior sends the wrong message, imo.
Of course, this is just my opinion; ultimately it's Frank's and/or Ken's judgment call to make.
_________________________
Mason & Hamlin A -- 91997
My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/pianomonica

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#59811 - 01/14/09 02:41 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
lilylady Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 4977
Loc: boston north
And is 'she' even a 'she'?

Sorry PianoMadam, but once caught, it is now hard for me to believe anything that you have written. You have not stated your name nor where you are located etc, which I believe most every honest dealer does here.

I appreciate your apology, but don't appreciate being 'dooped' by anyone - nor the games. Luckily you were caught. As a consumer, I really, really want to believe what my salesman tells me. You have lost your credibility with this outrageous game you played..

I would think that Steinway would be quite embarassed with this public display.

I may forgive but it is hard to forget.
_________________________
"Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination, and life to everything."

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#59812 - 01/14/09 02:53 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14096
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
If Pianomadam, aka 'clavier' would have heeded my advice and gotten herself a Brodman in the first place, she wouldn't have to apologize to anyone.

Just thank Brodmann, or me...

Norbert \:D
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#59813 - 01/14/09 02:59 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
Sir Lurksalot Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/19/04
Posts: 1241
What's so courageous about an anonymous apology? If we knew the person's name and store, I would be impressed. Heck, as far as we know, pianomadam could be a Steinway competitor who's trying to make Steinway salesmen appear to be super-sneaky. (Of course that would be pretty impressive, if only for its deviousness).

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#59814 - 01/14/09 03:10 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
DanLaura Larson Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/01/08
Posts: 695
Loc: Pocatello, Idaho
The fact that Pianomadam posts without disclosing her/his identity or store name and location says more negative than an anonymous apology after getting caught.

Dan
_________________________
Dan and Laura Larson
Fazioli and Ibach grands
Larson Piano Studio
http://www.stoneformsart.com/

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#59815 - 01/14/09 03:16 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
Horowitzian Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 8453
nm
_________________________
Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.

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#59816 - 01/14/09 04:08 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
Bear 1 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/28/06
Posts: 1348
Loc: Hillsboro Beach South Florida
Pianomadam gets caught with her pants down and some folks want to kiss both cheeks. No Thanks ..
No apology from an anonymous avatar will do.
Wonder how many more avatars she uses?
She now shows her location as Southern United States instead of Northeast USA ...
Did she move her store? Full disclosure please.
_________________________
Barry J "Bear" Arnaut ♫
46 Years in the Piano Industry
Retired Kawai/Shigeru Kawai Regional Manager
(My posts and threads are my opinions only)

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#59817 - 01/14/09 04:10 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
Steve Cohen Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 10428
Loc: Maryland/DC/No. VA
 Quote:
Originally posted by Monica K.:
 Quote:
Originally posted by POTUS:
Now I see that we're forced to be extremely skeptical even on a forum of piano lovers. And when someone is caught red handed and belatedly admits the obvious, it's considered "a testimony of great courage"?

Maybe others have more time to sift through the it all and figure out what is truthful here, but I think it'd be more helpful to the rest of us if this sort of thing was policed by the moderators and the related parties banned.
[/b]
I tend to side with POTUS on this one. Pardon me if I don't get caught up in the Pianomadam lovefest. She apologized only because she got caught. Who knows how often she's pulled this stunt in the past, and who knows how often she'll pull it again in the future. I agree with you, Mike, that we have no way of ensuring that she wouldn't just re-register under a new alias if she were banned... but I think that knowingly allowing her to continue posting is an even worse alternative.

Not having any kind of consequence for this kind of misbehavior sends the wrong message, imo.
Of course, this is just my opinion; ultimately it's Frank's and/or Ken's judgment call to make. [/b]
I'm with POTUS and Monica.

Pianomadam has pushed the envelop many times before. This latest fraud exposes her (or him) and shows her true colors.

Praising her for apologizing after being caught is enabling.
_________________________
Piano Industry Consultant- http://www.linkedin.com/pub/steve-cohen/6/b92/b80

Consultant & Contributing Editor - Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyer

Jasons Music
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Since 1937.

www.jasonsmusic.com
My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.

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#59818 - 01/14/09 04:19 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
Rod Verhnjak Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/09/06
Posts: 3650
Loc: Vancouver B.C. Canada
 Quote:
Originally posted by Rod Verhnjak:


Perhaps an apology to Yamaha and Charles Walter would have also been in order.
[/b]
Still waiting.
Don't tell me you are not reading this cause I won't believe you

I agree with the full disclosure of who you are.
_________________________
Verhnjak Pianos
Specializing in the Restoration, Refinishing & Maintenance
of Fine Heirloom Pianos

Exclusive Dealer For Charles R. Walter Pianos
www.pianoman.ca
Verhnjak Pianos Facebook


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#59819 - 01/14/09 04:20 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
Horowitzian Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 8453
 Quote:
Originally posted by Bear 1:
Pianomadam gets caught with her pants down and some folks want to kiss both cheeks. No Thanks ..
No apology from an anonymous avatar will do.
Wonder how many more avatars she uses?
She now shows her location as Southern United States instead of Northeast USA ...
Did she move her store? Full disclosure please. [/b]
I think she said something about the move a while back...could be a load of ****, I don't know. I'm willing to see if she can come clean about her identity and location. And if she doesn't, both of my above posts will disappear.

[edit]Above posts have disappeared anyway.
_________________________
Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.

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#59820 - 01/14/09 04:40 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7114
Loc: torrance, CA
 Quote:
originally posted by Monica K
Pardon me if I don't get caught up in the Pianomadam lovefest.
Expressing a wish that pianomadam not be pursued and heckled here on this forum and that her apology be accepted as genuine and that she given a second chance is not a lovefest. [/b]

If you want to express a different opinion, go ahead. But you don't need to ridicule the opposing opinion to do that.
_________________________
Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier

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#59821 - 01/14/09 05:23 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
FogVilleLad Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 4680
Loc: San Francisco
I'm in the Monica, lilylady, Bear, and Steve C. camp. Disclosure after discovery - so what.

Personal opinion: suspension + disclosure of true trade affiliation.

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#59822 - 01/14/09 05:42 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
Piano*Dad Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 10344
Loc: Williamsburg, VA
I'm not joining the easy apology side either. Saying this is not the same thing as heckling. She has been shilling outrageously for Steinway and all of those fabulous and incredible Steinway-designed products for as long as she has been here. Anyone with a decent grasp of the search function can verify that. Now she has been caught using a sock to peddle and puff Essex. Geez.

OK she apologized. Fine. Embarrassment is a great motive for that. And getting caught in the act brooks no weaseling. It warrants no group hug. Whatever tiny bit of credibility she might have had should be shredded. The problem, of course, is that a shill can always return to influence people who have no history here, but who are looking to this group for help.

It's a constant problem, I know, and she is surely not the only dealer ever to behave in this fashion. That likely fact warrants no group hug either.
_________________________
Grotrian 192 #156455

https://www.youtube.com/user/dhfeld/videos

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#59823 - 01/14/09 05:47 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
Piano*Dad Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 10344
Loc: Williamsburg, VA
Oh .... and thanks to Beacon Chris! I don't think anyone has ever caught somebody with their proverbial pants down so neatly.
_________________________
Grotrian 192 #156455

https://www.youtube.com/user/dhfeld/videos

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#59824 - 01/14/09 06:04 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
mdsdurango Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/04
Posts: 1755
Loc: Durango Colorado
Truth is that unless we get to know who pianomadam (or pianomister) really is nobody is going to hear her (or him) out anyway.
Furthering the same truth; even if he/she does come clean his/her posts will be highly scrutinized, filleted, laid open, and most probably dismissed.
So - why ban? She's all but excommunicated anyway.
And I agree with lillylady that pianomadams behavior is, or should be a disgrace to Steinway. It's they who should have her banned!

Mike


(edited for grammar violations)
_________________________
WHAT???????
Yamaha S6, U5C, P120
http://michaelstith.com

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#59825 - 01/14/09 06:11 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7114
Loc: torrance, CA
So now we have 'enabling', 'camp', and 'group hug' to go with 'lovefest'.

I don't think any groups, camps, or the like have met to form a collective opinion. People are saying what they personally feel. Why label opinions as some sort of collective mentality?

In my post I was responding to pianomadam directly and personally. I've seldom been bothered by what she has to say. I've noticed that she keeps her cool when those coming down on her hard get very personal. I suppose I took that into account when I posted, but I was hardly deliberating as if PW was some perfect world where she had violated a sacred principle never violated by others. Give me a break! \:D

Anyway, it's my opinion. I'm not a moderator, a wannabe moderator, or trying to influence anyone else. While I can certainly respect and understand other INDIVIDUAL opinions. I simply wanted pianomadam to know that I sensed her embarrassment and remorse and wished her a speedy rehabilitation free of any scourging.

I would certainly hope that those who run this place don't need some kind of opinion poll or demonstration of a collective will to know how to enforce their own standards.
_________________________
Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier

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#59826 - 01/14/09 06:19 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
Piano*Dad Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 10344
Loc: Williamsburg, VA
What? You don't like "group hug?" It's such a "nice" term. \:D
_________________________
Grotrian 192 #156455

https://www.youtube.com/user/dhfeld/videos

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#59827 - 01/14/09 06:27 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7114
Loc: torrance, CA
Nah!!! Get away from me. \:D
_________________________
Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier

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#59828 - 01/14/09 06:41 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
mdsdurango Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/04
Posts: 1755
Loc: Durango Colorado
 Quote:
Originally posted by turandot:
Nah!!! Get away from me. \:D [/b]
Always the rational one - turandot.
_________________________
WHAT???????
Yamaha S6, U5C, P120
http://michaelstith.com

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#59829 - 01/14/09 06:54 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
Bear 1 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/28/06
Posts: 1348
Loc: Hillsboro Beach South Florida
 Quote:
Originally posted by turandot:
Nah!!! Get away from me. \:D [/b]
Just turn the other cheek .. \:D
_________________________
Barry J "Bear" Arnaut ♫
46 Years in the Piano Industry
Retired Kawai/Shigeru Kawai Regional Manager
(My posts and threads are my opinions only)

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#59830 - 01/14/09 07:16 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
Rod Verhnjak Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/09/06
Posts: 3650
Loc: Vancouver B.C. Canada
Perhaps I'm pushing it a bit but sure makes posts like this seem suspicious when it's one of the first posts made by L1037
http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?/topic/1/21749.html

I guess this is what people will think when someone gets caught, faking it.
_________________________
Verhnjak Pianos
Specializing in the Restoration, Refinishing & Maintenance
of Fine Heirloom Pianos

Exclusive Dealer For Charles R. Walter Pianos
www.pianoman.ca
Verhnjak Pianos Facebook


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#59831 - 01/14/09 07:23 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
Piano*Dad Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 10344
Loc: Williamsburg, VA
Hey, I thought that one was bogus the moment I saw it. Could always be wrong, of course, but so many of them had red flags waving in the wind.
_________________________
Grotrian 192 #156455

https://www.youtube.com/user/dhfeld/videos

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#59832 - 01/14/09 07:25 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
Horowitzian Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 8453
 Quote:
Originally posted by Piano*Dad:
Hey, I thought that one was bogus the moment I saw it. Could always be wrong, of course, but so many of them had red flags waving in the wind. [/b]
I hadn't seen it, but I agree when I see it now. The OP's first (or nearly the first) post and Pianomadam all over in the subsequent responses... :rolleyes:
_________________________
Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.

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#59833 - 01/14/09 07:32 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
Monica K. Offline

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012


Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 17733
Loc: Lexington, Kentucky
 Quote:
Originally posted by mdsdurango:
Truth is that unless we get to know who pianomadam (or pianomister) really is nobody is going to hear her (or him) out anyway.
Furthering the same truth; even if he/she does come clean his/her posts will be highly scrutinized, filleted, laid open, and most probably dismissed.
So - why ban? She's all but excommunicated anyway.
And I agree with lillylady that pianomadams behavior is, or should be a disgrace to Steinway. It's they who should have her banned!

Mike
[/b]
I agree with all that you've said here, Mike; pianomadam's not-so-great credibility to begin with is now essentially zip. But I still think she should be banned, or perhaps put in Frank's infamous time-out chair for a nice long spell, simply to reinforce the message that this kind of trickery is unacceptable at PW. To have no sanction at all is tantamount to saying "anything goes, as long as you apologize if you get caught."

I'm sure there are some Steinway execs reading this thread. I'd love to be a fly on the wall during their discussions about it. \:D
_________________________
Mason & Hamlin A -- 91997
My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/pianomonica

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#59834 - 01/14/09 07:39 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
honkytonk Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/15/06
Posts: 305
Now this is the Pianoworld I remember ;\)

I remember when Pianomadam first posted as JordanKittsGuy

It didn't take long for Him (Her?) to realize that this was not a good way to remain anonymous and all of his posts were quickly deleted. Since then this person has posted using many different sockpuppets.

PS - Hi everyone, have you missed me?
_________________________
Former Piano Salesman

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#59835 - 01/14/09 07:40 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
there would be quite a few banned posters if everyone who has fished under a pseudonym was outed.
_________________________
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)

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#59836 - 01/14/09 07:46 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
Piano*Dad Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 10344
Loc: Williamsburg, VA
Well then, let's get to it. \:D

C'mon, Monica makes a good point.
_________________________
Grotrian 192 #156455

https://www.youtube.com/user/dhfeld/videos

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#59837 - 01/14/09 07:49 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
i don't know.. there seems to be quite a few pianodads out there.
_________________________
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)

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