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Topic Options
#59838 - 01/14/09 07:50 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
Monica K. Offline

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012


Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 17699
Loc: Lexington, Kentucky
 Quote:
Originally posted by honkytonk:

PS - Hi everyone, have you missed me? [/b]
Good to see you back, honky!
_________________________
Mason & Hamlin A -- 91997
My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/pianomonica

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#59839 - 01/14/09 07:57 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
Piano*Dad Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 10297
Loc: Williamsburg, VA
 Quote:
Originally posted by apple*:
i don't know.. there seems to be quite a few pianodads out there. [/b]
Ooooh, if I used a sock I would be much more inventive than that!
_________________________
Grotrian 192 #156455

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#59840 - 01/14/09 07:59 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
FogVilleLad Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 4680
Loc: San Francisco
Monica K. posted,
 Quote:
To have no sanction at all is tantamount to saying 'anything goes, as long as you apologize if you get caught'.
+1

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#59841 - 01/14/09 08:17 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
mdsdurango Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/04
Posts: 1755
Loc: Durango Colorado
Another consequence of this thread (btw - Hey Honky!) is that from here forth almost all Essex threads will be read with a great deal of scepticism.
How will Essex pianos or posters be portrayed, supported or defended?
Jman, suppose he was one of pianomadams incarnations? There are a few others on board right now hard pushing Boston and Essex. What is their credibility?
In fact, look at the first three posts on this thread! It's possible that we have a "multiple personality disorder" on our hands.

There is a stain here that will not wash out simply.


Edit; Sorry Jonathan Hunt, it appears you are ligit.

"Musically Yours,
Jonathan Hunt

Sales Professional:
Steinway, Boston, Essex, Kohler & Campbell

The Music Gallery
Clearwater, Fl."
_________________________
WHAT???????
Yamaha S6, U5C, P120
http://michaelstith.com

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#59842 - 01/14/09 08:37 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
Steve Cohen Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 10342
Loc: Maryland/DC/No. VA
Ken Knapp,

Can you check L1037 IP address and compare it to pianomadam and her socks?
_________________________
Piano Industry Consultant- http://www.linkedin.com/pub/steve-cohen/6/b92/b80

Consultant & Contributing Editor - Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyer

Jasons Music
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Since 1937.

www.jasonsmusic.com
My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.

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#59843 - 01/14/09 08:49 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
DanLaura Larson Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/01/08
Posts: 695
Loc: Pocatello, Idaho
 Quote:
Originally posted by mdsdurango:

Jman, suppose he was one of pianomadams incarnations? [/b]
I've been wondering this all along. jman37 and L1037 making similar threads to compare Essex with competitors and Boston with Kawai and Yamaha while trashing the competition. Then Pianomadam tag teaming with them.

Dan
_________________________
Dan and Laura Larson
Fazioli and Ibach grands
Larson Piano Studio
http://www.stoneformsart.com/

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#59844 - 01/14/09 09:17 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
paulmarcus Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/24/08
Posts: 57
Loc: USA
...
_________________________
Marcus

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#59845 - 01/14/09 09:30 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
mdsdurango Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/04
Posts: 1755
Loc: Durango Colorado
 Quote:
Originally posted by paulmarcus:
... [/b]
I am not on a witch hunt paulmarcus.
I did not mean to offend.
You should feel free to speak.

Mike
_________________________
WHAT???????
Yamaha S6, U5C, P120
http://michaelstith.com

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#59846 - 01/15/09 12:32 AM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
Jolly Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/20/01
Posts: 14036
Loc: Louisiana
Only one appropriate response for these shenanigans...from He Who Must Not Be Named:
Bwhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!![/b]
_________________________
www.coffee-room.com

Over 1,000,000 posts where pianists discuss everything. And nothing.

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#59847 - 01/15/09 12:37 AM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
Jolly Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/20/01
Posts: 14036
Loc: Louisiana
 Quote:
Originally posted by apple*:
there would be quite a few banned posters if everyone who has fished under a pseudonym was outed. [/b]
Then ban them.

I'm not big on socks, never have been. Some are ok if they're funny, but this is not a general chat type forum...people are spending hard-earned money on the things they read here.

We may not always be right in our opinions, but let them be honest ones.
_________________________
www.coffee-room.com

Over 1,000,000 posts where pianists discuss everything. And nothing.

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#59848 - 01/15/09 02:42 AM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
doremi Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 1686
Can sporadically planted postings have a short term effect at all for a dealer? How could sparse plantings help close a sale?

I suspect therefore that such postings are necessarily planted in systematic ways. Only then can such plantings influence buying behavior.

Pianomadam said she screwed up royally. Other perpetrators don't screw up royally. That's the only difference.

In other words, I would expect to find IP clusters of similar plantings.
_________________________
I am doremi because I play scales
Had I progressed to playing chords, I would be domisol

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#59849 - 01/15/09 07:23 AM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
bluekeys Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/07
Posts: 1337
Are you a little lost lamb who wandered over here from the ABF? Maybe you're thinking of buying a piano? Let this thread be a warning to you--like a bloody head on a stick sharpened at both ends. You've crossed into savage country now. This is where Satan's dearest spawn, piano salesmen, hang their chain saws and hockey masks when they're not butchering little lambs like you.

You see, piano salesmen aren't born and suckled by loving mothers as you and me are, in nurseries with teddy bear wallpaper and squishy-squeaky toys. No. They grow from airborne spores that land in dank corners and suck blood from unsuspecting creatures that happen upon them. Some of these spores become politicians, others become investment bankers, but those that land in the darkest, dankest, and vilest corners become piano salesmen. There they learn dark arts, like shape shifting and IP manipulation, that let them become whoever they want, all the better to entice then squeeze their prey.

Tomorrow we may learn Piano Madam actually sells Walters and Yamahas and fabricated this whole ruse to discredit Essex. We don't know. This is Piano Land! There's no truth, only an eternity of loose tuning pins and cracked sound boards if we listen to the wrong lies.

Sometimes I wish I'd taken up the ukulele.

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#59850 - 01/15/09 07:23 AM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
JF Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 95
Although I'm brand new on this board, honestly, I think that for me to continue to have faith in the content here, I am going to want to hear from the administrators on these issues.

Have you all investigated this type of behavior? Have you all known, prior to pianomadam's "outing," that this type of behavior was going on? Have you any plans to now investigate, with the goal of stopping this type of behavior? Have you/will you investigate "clusters" of IP addresses organized to promote a particular brand or bash another?

People generally trust what they read here (I know I do/did), and it would be a shame to lose that trust. If we can't trust a poster's advice or impressions on a brand, this board quickly becomes irrelevant.

I know you can't absolutely prevent this behavior, but I would like to know there is an effort...

Just .02 from a newbie......

--
_________________________
Kimball 6'7" Viennese Classic
Adult re-learning after 20-years

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#59851 - 01/15/09 07:34 AM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
Piano*Dad Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 10297
Loc: Williamsburg, VA
Unfortunately, there have been others who have used socks for 'business purposes' and who have lived to tell the tale. Just ask fathertopianist about the one he caught and publicly outed (though this abuser may have had other socks as well). FTP's discovery was well-sleuthed as opposed to BC's accidental but spectacular discovery.

I would have no objection to an enforced policy that you will be banned if the moderators (or Frank) have good evidence that you are using a sock .... banned after you are first drawn and quartered publicly. ;\)

We all know that people can reappear in different incarnations, though it does impose some costs on them to manipulate their IP addresses.

I would support this banning policy even though the bad PR (of the sort this thread is generating) is another deterrent to sock behavior. The individual needs a punishment as well as the firm they represent.

I cannot imagine that Steinway enjoys the notoriety that this caught-red-handed act of blatant (and false) puffery has brought to their family of pianos. Unlike another recent and controversial internet poster-dealer, who some argued benefitted from all publicity, Steinway is unlikely to feel that bad publicity is just another form of publicity. They have a well cultivated reputation to protect.
_________________________
Grotrian 192 #156455

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#59852 - 01/15/09 07:42 AM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
Piano*Dad Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 10297
Loc: Williamsburg, VA
Oh, another note ....

Perhaps a moderator could go in and edit the first post and the thread title so that no unsuspecting person who stumbles on it thinks this is genuine information about Charles Walter, Essex and Yamaha if they happen to stop reading prematurely.

This thread could then become part of the forum's FAQ section (when such is built) as a permanent warning to casual researchers of "what happens out there."
_________________________
Grotrian 192 #156455

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#59853 - 01/15/09 07:56 AM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
JF Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 95
Well, I am now looking at other threads a bit askance. For instance, there has been a large chunk of Kawai "love" here recently. We have people buying Kawai grands all over the place, people talking about how it is the best piano ever, nothing to bash about it, and how it's just overall "the best."

Now I'm wondering if all/none/some of them are "real." This is not meant to offend any of the people who are posting about their new pianos, because I hate to cloud a moment of joy with cynicism. I wouldn't want people to doubt my excitement over my new piano.

It's just that now, I wonder. And I want the feeling of security in knowing that most of them are probably real, because the moderators are doing everything they can to squelch the fakers.

I'll shut up now...

--
_________________________
Kimball 6'7" Viennese Classic
Adult re-learning after 20-years

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#59854 - 01/15/09 08:26 AM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
Genaa Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/05/08
Posts: 326
Loc: Winchester, UK
scoobydoo villain unmasked.... and she would have gotten away with it had it not been for you meddling kids! lol!
_________________________
Sauter Masterclass 130
----------------------
Currently working on:
Bach: French Suite no. 4
Beethoven: Op 10 no 1
Schubert: Op 90 no 3
Debussy: La Cathedrale Engloutie, Golliwog's Cakewalk, 'Clear the Room'
Balakirev / Glinka: The Lark

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#59855 - 01/15/09 08:40 AM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
 Quote:
Originally posted by JF:
Well, I am now looking at other threads a bit askance. For instance, there has been a large chunk of Kawai "love" here recently. We have people buying Kawai grands all over the place, people talking about how it is the best piano ever, nothing to bash about it, and how it's just overall "the best."

Now I'm wondering if all/none/some of them are "real." This is not meant to offend any of the people who are posting about their new pianos, because I hate to cloud a moment of joy with cynicism. I wouldn't want people to doubt my excitement over my new piano.

It's just that now, I wonder. And I want the feeling of security in knowing that most of them are probably real, because the moderators are doing everything they can to squelch the fakers.

I'll shut up now...

-- [/b]
posters have been doing this for years. it absolutely drives me bats... and some of them are very clever... moderators don't squelch the fakers.. the best one can do is argue and and allude.

it is so cheap to debase Piano World this way.

BUY AN AD FOR GOODNESS SAKES
_________________________
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)

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#59856 - 01/15/09 08:55 AM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
Piano*Dad Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 10297
Loc: Williamsburg, VA
Apple,

Why do moderators not squelch the fakers? There are certainly ways to try (I know this), and hanging a few from the yard arm does set an example that may deter others.

Prompt action from the board in defense of its integrity also may reduce the noise from angry people for whom heckling the outed dealer (and the firms they represent) may seem like the best alternative recourse.
_________________________
Grotrian 192 #156455

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#59857 - 01/15/09 09:02 AM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
doremi Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 1686
I do not believe that Pianomadam is a dealer or salesperson at all. With her lack of knowledge, she could never survive as either the former or the latter.

Pianomadam is simply paid for making postings, IMHO. I would'nt be surprised if she is also 'Imelda Marcos' posting to a shoe forum.

Note, that 'the one whose name shall not be mentioned' has been paying such posters.
_________________________
I am doremi because I play scales
Had I progressed to playing chords, I would be domisol

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#59858 - 01/15/09 09:07 AM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7089
Loc: torrance, CA
 Quote:
People generally trust what they read here (I know I do/did), and it would be a shame to lose that trust. If we can't trust a poster's advice or impressions on a brand, this board quickly becomes irrelevant. [/b]
It is a mistake to trust any one opinion that you read here. Equally irrational opinions can be presented by a sock or an exuberant (albeit sincere) ignoramus. It is actually beneficial to lose your trust immediately. Strictly speaking, if you were shopping for a piano and trusted all opinions here, you would not have a clue which piano to buy.

The relevance of a board such as this is related to breadth of opinion. If there are enough active members reading content, opinions will be countered with other opinions. False claims cited in connection with those opinions will be exposed as false, and erroneous facts will be corrected. If these conditions exist, a thread will run the same course whether it is initiated by a sock or by a sincere inquiry. The board will have served its purpose.

You may find in the course of membership here that you are suspicious of a certain OP. At that point you have choices. You can tune out. You can state your suspicion in a post reply accusing the OP. You can reply with your honest opinions based on the facts as you understand them and without a hint of accusation. The first choice is to the detriment of all. The second may well cause you to advance a false accusation. The third will be the most productive.

This thread opened with a request for a comparison of three and only three specific pianos. The request was not genuine; the supposed question was apparently an attempt to generate some positive spin for the Essex at the expense of the other two. The first two responses were far more pro-Essex than the OP even though I am quite sure they were genuine and sincere opinions. I suppose you could say that at that point the planted question achieved its purpose. If the board's membership were small and inattentive, did not represent a diversity of opinion, and the thread had simply ended there, the planted question would have achieved the result that the person who planted it desired. Only one side of the case would have been presented. However, the thread did not end there. Contrary opinion appeared and certain facts were explored as to their relevance and/or truthfulness.

Had you believed everything you read on this thread up to the point where discussion of the pianos ceased, you would have needed to believe conflicting facts and opinions. The onus is on you to sort through the information and make sense of it. The onus on the board is to provide a depth and breadth of membership that allows for a topic to be fully explored.[/b] Whether the OP is genuine or planted, a consideration of all the information presented should lead you to the same conclusion, a conclusion based on your own priorities, the information presented as evaluated by you, and (hopefully) hands-on experience with the pianos.
_________________________
Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier

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#59859 - 01/15/09 09:29 AM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
Piano*Dad Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 10297
Loc: Williamsburg, VA
This is the liberal position, as in John Stuart Mill, and there is much to be said for it. For the most part, I agree.

Yet there is also an argument that this board is a public good, and as such there are some pretty bad incentives to abuse it. The moderators (and Frank) may have a role to play in making it function more effectively so that the signal to noise ratio is higher than it might be in complete laissez-faire freedom.

Acting against people who violate rules against non-disclosure or who use sock puppets to advance an agenda may help make the discussion more productive.
_________________________
Grotrian 192 #156455

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#59860 - 01/15/09 09:36 AM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
Sir Lurksalot Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/19/04
Posts: 1237
 Quote:
Note, that 'the one whose name shall not be mentioned' has been paying such posters.
If you're referring to the same person Jolly referenced, that person is not in the business and therefore has no incentive to pay posters.

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#59861 - 01/15/09 09:45 AM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
doremi Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 1686
The one I meant is in the business, and has been paying posters before PW even existed, i.e. in the days of Usenet.

I have been mentioning 'names' and 'no names' but that's not really the thrust of my message. The thrust of my message has to do with how the bottom drawer of the Internet looks like.
_________________________
I am doremi because I play scales
Had I progressed to playing chords, I would be domisol

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#59862 - 01/15/09 09:45 AM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7089
Loc: torrance, CA
Dad,

I have no disagreement with the moderators removing incentives to abuse the forum, if such incentives exist. However, whatever rules are in place, members do have the responsibility to evaluate conflicting informations.

Whatever rules moderators put in place, I would only hope that they enforce them evenly, and not base the level of enforcement on public outcry from members regarding a certain member, or back-door PMs from disgruntled members.

The OP in this thread was extremely irritating to many members, including you (if I read your posts here correctly). I don't think popularity or lack of the same should be involved in the level of enforcement of whatever the rules happen to be.
_________________________
Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier

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#59863 - 01/15/09 10:08 AM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
 Quote:
Originally posted by Piano*Dad:
Apple,

Why do moderators not squelch the fakers? There are certainly ways to try (I know this), and hanging a few from the yard arm does set an example that may deter others.

Prompt action from the board in defense of its integrity also may reduce the noise from angry people for whom heckling the outed dealer (and the firms they represent) may seem like the best alternative recourse. [/b]
it is not unusual to post from different IP addresses. one can check addresses but i know (from another forum) that it is extremely tedious. (might not be here)... i myself spot a trend; a cheerfulness with keywords and subtle disses, subtle endorsements and absurd stories of piano searches (to me). it seems posters work in tandem with a group of 3 or 4 keeping a thread alive.

it drives me bats.

scumbags

--- edit---

I've been mistaken in my assumption of 'im'posters and it is indeed unfair to accuse without proof.
_________________________
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)

Top
#59864 - 01/15/09 10:20 AM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
Steve Cohen Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 10342
Loc: Maryland/DC/No. VA
 Quote:
Originally posted by turandot:
 Quote:
People generally trust what they read here (I know I do/did), and it would be a shame to lose that trust. If we can't trust a poster's advice or impressions on a brand, this board quickly becomes irrelevant. [/b]
It is a mistake to trust any one opinion that you read here. Equally irrational opinions can be presented by a sock or an exuberant (albeit sincere) ignoramus. It is actually beneficial to lose your trust immediately. Strictly speaking, if you were shopping for a piano and trusted all opinions here, you would not have a clue which piano to buy.

The relevance of a board such as this is related to breadth of opinion. If there are enough active members reading content, opinions will be countered with other opinions. False claims cited in connection with those opinions will be exposed as false, and erroneous facts will be corrected. If these conditions exist, a thread will run the same course whether it is initiated by a sock or by a sincere inquiry. The board will have served its purpose.

You may find in the course of membership here that you are suspicious of a certain OP. At that point you have choices. You can tune out. You can state your suspicion in a post reply accusing the OP. You can reply with your honest opinions based on the facts as you understand them and without a hint of accusation. The first choice is to the detriment of all. The second may well cause you to advance a false accusation. The third will be the most productive.

This thread opened with a request for a comparison of three and only three specific pianos. The request was not genuine; the supposed question was apparently an attempt to generate some positive spin for the Essex at the expense of the other two. The first two responses were far more pro-Essex than the OP even though I am quite sure they were genuine and sincere opinions. I suppose you could say that at that point the planted question achieved its purpose. If the board's membership were small and inattentive, did not represent a diversity of opinion, and the thread had simply ended there, the planted question would have achieved the result that the person who planted it desired. Only one side of the case would have been presented. However, the thread did not end there. Contrary opinion appeared and certain facts were explored as to their relevance and/or truthfulness.

Had you believed everything you read on this thread up to the point where discussion of the pianos ceased, you would have needed to believe conflicting facts and opinions. The onus is on you to sort through the information and make sense of it. The onus on the board is to provide a depth and breadth of membership that allows for a topic to be fully explored.[/b] Whether the OP is genuine or planted, a consideration of all the information presented should lead you to the same conclusion, a conclusion based on your own priorities, the information presented as evaluated by you, and (hopefully) hands-on experience with the pianos. [/b]
VERY well put.
_________________________
Piano Industry Consultant- http://www.linkedin.com/pub/steve-cohen/6/b92/b80

Consultant & Contributing Editor - Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyer

Jasons Music
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Since 1937.

www.jasonsmusic.com
My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.

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#59865 - 01/15/09 10:21 AM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
Steve Chandler Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/18/05
Posts: 2629
Loc: Urbandale, Iowa
Turandot,

I agree wholeheartedly that readers should evaluate the opinions on this board skeptically. I also agree that posters with opinions should post them, preferably under their own name. I also believe that forum owners and moderators have a duty to enforce the rules on those caught red handed. To this point I am unaware of that being the case here and that gives me cause for concern.

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#59866 - 01/15/09 10:35 AM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
doremi Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 1686
I agree that a minimum of administrative measures should be taken to give forum participants a chance for using their common sense in separating the wheat from the chaff.

Beyond such minimum administrative measures, it's quickly becoming a matter of diminishing returns, all you hit is the 'paid for postings' trade, not the real perpetrators behind it.
_________________________
I am doremi because I play scales
Had I progressed to playing chords, I would be domisol

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#59867 - 01/15/09 10:47 AM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
Monica K. Offline

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012


Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 17699
Loc: Lexington, Kentucky
 Quote:
Originally posted by Steve Chandler:
I agree wholeheartedly that readers should evaluate the opinions on this board skeptically. I also agree that posters with opinions should post them, preferably under their own name. I also believe that forum owners and moderators have a duty to enforce the rules on those caught red handed. To this point I am unaware of that being the case here and that gives me cause for concern. [/b]
Ditto here. I wish Frank or Ken would weigh in here. \:\( Er, I don't suppose there's any chance that they're not aware of this thread, is there?

p.s. I had no idea people were getting paid for posting. Man, that's 11,000+ opportunities for extra cash I've just squandered... \:D
_________________________
Mason & Hamlin A -- 91997
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give up on old acoustics and buy a digital?
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