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Topic Options
#59958 - 01/16/09 10:18 AM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
AJB Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/01/05
Posts: 3655
Loc: Surrey, England
Mark...thay are not "professional" people. They are just people who call themselves that but without any of the integrity that actually being a true professional requires.

One advantage they gain is a lots of google hits for their brands. This may pull shoppers in their direction. Possibly.

The other potential advantage they seek may be to damage competing brands.
_________________________
S&S Hamburg D, Yamaha CLP 280


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#59959 - 01/16/09 10:31 AM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7089
Loc: torrance, CA
 Quote:
I think this is restating the obvious, but most people here—the ones with our "dopey" noms de guerre—don't feel it's wise (or even safe) to use our real names. I'm sure the only thing most of us want to hide is our full names, for the very practical reason that there are a lot of nuts out there. Most of us say things from time to time that someone, somewhere for some reason will find controversial, and it's as easy to make enemies as friends on these here Internets.

[/b]
Thank you Stephen for making this sane observation. One could flip John's sweeping slur and say that anyone who posts with a clear identity here is simply interested in calling attention to herself/himself, whether for piano biz related rea$ons or simply from a 'here I am, look at me' perspective. To generalize in that direction would not be right either.

Just a general comment on the festivities here.

The forum has rules. Pianomadam has admitted to breaking the rules. She has also expressed a desire to remain here and to be given a second chance. Ken Knapp is the moderator of this forum. He works with other moderators and the owner. It is their call as to how to deal with those who break the rules.

I can't exactly figure out what the reason is that this morality play keeps piling up the pages. At this point is seems like some people are queueing up just for another chance to stomp on a dead insect lying on the pavement. I mean what's with the continual stream of Pinocchio images?

Or maybe this is a wake that is being well-attended beyond all expectations because enemies of the deceased have traveled great distances to pay their disrespects.

I really don't think anyone here should want the mods to make a decision based on how many hooded or unhooded faces and lit torches can be seen at the castle gate. We are all better-served if they use their best judgment based on rules and precedent in punishment whether we agree with any individual decision or not. They operate from a frame of reference that is far wider than anything we have.
_________________________
Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier

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#59960 - 01/16/09 10:33 AM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
DanLaura Larson Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/01/08
Posts: 695
Loc: Pocatello, Idaho
Mark, how can we know that Pianomadam is even a piano professional since she keeps hiding behind anonymity?

And I don't begrudge any sales falling to our dealers who do disclose their personal and professional identities. Many of those dealers give a lot of very useful information.

Dan
_________________________
Dan and Laura Larson
Fazioli and Ibach grands
Larson Piano Studio
http://www.stoneformsart.com/

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#59961 - 01/16/09 10:40 AM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
Mark... Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 4372
Loc: Jersey Shore
 Quote:
Originally posted by DanLaura Larson:
Mark, how can we know that Pianomadam is even a piano professional since she keeps hiding behind anonymity?

And I don't begrudge any sales falling to our dealers who do disclose their personal and professional identities. Many of those dealers give a lot of very useful information.

Dan [/b]
I guess I should of said anyone playing these silly games having much effect on piano sales to any great extent. And when I say this I am referring to piano branding, not the Internet sales mess from PSS. Even though I could never buy a piano I didn't actually play...

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#59962 - 01/16/09 11:14 AM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
WillisWill Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/04/08
Posts: 125
Loc: Charlottesville, VA
It seems to me there are a lot of people on the forum that are put off/annoyed with S&S marketing tactics. Whether it's the assertion that Concert D's are better than (Bosie/Blunther/Fazioli/M&H etc...) and that's why 99% of concert artist perform exclusively on them, or that essex/boston are superior to because they are "made by Steinway" unlike yammie, kawai etc...Some question whether this aggressive marketing slides into deception.

PianoMadam seems to embody the all the worst adjectives attributed to S&S's marketing program, and now its been caught red-footed (err, red handed).

To the extent S&S cares what is said about it on this forum, it would seem to me that they would want to publicly distance themselves from this type of behavior
_________________________
The posts are coming from inside the house! Repeat, the posts are coming from inside the house!

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#59963 - 01/16/09 11:33 AM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
piqué Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/15/01
Posts: 5483
 Quote:
Originally posted by Pianomadam:
For crying out loud, who doesn't tout their own product once in a while?
this is CLEARLY against the rules and antithetical to what PW is here for.

 Quote:
often enough, I am helping others make a decision on the pianos they have presented,
your kind of help is not what people need.

 Quote:
Do you have some agenda here...let's be honest! [/b]
yes, let's be honest. YOU are the one with the agenda. i sincerely hope you and all of your incarnations are banned. for good.
_________________________
piqué

now in paperback:


Grand Obsession: A Piano Odyssey

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#59964 - 01/16/09 11:38 AM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
windsound Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/09/08
Posts: 177
Loc: IL
 Quote:
No surprise, my most vocal opponents from the distant and recent past (e.g. Pianodad, windsound, Rod, Steve Cohen, honkytonk, Bear1, etc...) are leading the present witch hunt to oust me from this forum.
Come on, I never want to oust Pianomadam from this forum but she or he broke rules by her/himself.

I have repeated my point, whoever tries to promote Essex, Boston over other brands like Yamaha and Kawai with biased info. will eventually damage not only Essex, Boston but also the name of Steinway.

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#59965 - 01/16/09 11:48 AM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
U S A P T Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/20/06
Posts: 1645
Loc: An Indiana University
I don't think pianomadam should be banned. She adds a little bourgeois je ne sais pas to the Steinway brand -- kind of cuts through the fancy-pants lingo that Steinway uses to make the brand sound more accesible to people who live in trailers or who buy cars off of "instant credit" car lots.

I've said before that I don't think she is actually a woman and that she probably DOES NOT represent Steinway. If she's anything in person like she is on line, she's probably a terrible representative of the brand and her/his sales are probably in the toilet.
_________________________
Full-Time Music/Entrepreneurship Major: (Why not compose music AND businesses?)
Former Piano Industry Professional
************
Steinway M
Roland Atelier AT90R
************
All Posts are Snarky Unless Otherwise Noted
************

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#59966 - 01/16/09 11:49 AM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
U S A P T Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/20/06
Posts: 1645
Loc: An Indiana University
I still would like her take on Cristofori too. . .
_________________________
Full-Time Music/Entrepreneurship Major: (Why not compose music AND businesses?)
Former Piano Industry Professional
************
Steinway M
Roland Atelier AT90R
************
All Posts are Snarky Unless Otherwise Noted
************

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#59967 - 01/16/09 11:49 AM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
WillisWill Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/04/08
Posts: 125
Loc: Charlottesville, VA
Speaking of witch-hunts, did you know that PianoMadam turned my M&H A into a Betsy Ross Spinet?

[incredulous looks]

It got better...
_________________________
The posts are coming from inside the house! Repeat, the posts are coming from inside the house!

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#59968 - 01/16/09 11:53 AM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
Roger Ransom Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/19/05
Posts: 1227
Loc: SouthWest Michigan
Wow, what fun!

and people wonder why I read PianoWorld Forums!
_________________________
Laugh More
Yamaha G7 - Roland FP7

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#59969 - 01/16/09 11:56 AM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
U S A P T Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/20/06
Posts: 1645
Loc: An Indiana University
At least i have this to look at. My thermometer says -10 just 24" from my toes.
_________________________
Full-Time Music/Entrepreneurship Major: (Why not compose music AND businesses?)
Former Piano Industry Professional
************
Steinway M
Roland Atelier AT90R
************
All Posts are Snarky Unless Otherwise Noted
************

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#59970 - 01/16/09 12:08 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
Beacon Chris Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/06/06
Posts: 441
Loc: Greenwich, CT
PianoMadam,

My piano store is indicated on my profile page. My signature line does not reference it because I'm not here to advertise. I hardly even talk about the brands I carry. I'm here for fun.

I don't use my name as my screen name because of my concert career. Good reasons for this.

If you want to know who I am read this:

http://www.dispeker.com/page/pfund.html

If you decide to visit my store in the future, please bring your pianist, a headshot and bio. Thanks... we'll call you.

BC ;\)
_________________________
Musician, Singer, Teacher, Humorist, Dad...

Member of the Faust Harrison Pianos sales team.

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#59971 - 01/16/09 12:16 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
honkytonk Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/15/06
Posts: 305
 Quote:
Originally posted by Pianomadam:
Very well, Apple. I'm too tired to argue any more. I do stand by what I said previously, though. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, as they say. No surprise, my most vocal opponents from the distant and recent past (e.g. Pianodad, windsound, Rod, Steve Cohen, honkytonk, Bear1, etc...) are leading the present witch hunt to oust me from this forum.
It goes to show their true vitriol for the brand I represent. [/b]
I have great respect for the brand you represent, and I think anyone who knows much about pianos feels the same way. When I started my current sales job, one of my first calls was to Steinway, and I'm proud to call them one of my customers.

To all the people who keep commenting about how Pianomadam has damaged Steinway's name, keep in mind that she doesn't work for Steinway.

She's just a lonely rookie salesman in the back of an empty showroom. She's desperately trying to justify her $1500 draw and hoping she covers it so she doesn't have to pay it back the next month. Lacking the experience or savvy to creatively build a customer base, she gets on the old internets between smoke breaks and looks for Marks on Pianoworld.

People here have cut her way more slack than she deserves, but we've always been a trusting bunch. She's just one of many sockies that have trolled around here.

Finally, people have speculated on whether this behavior can be effective. In my opinion, the answer is yes. Consider a scenario where a customer comes in to the good Madam's shop and asks about Boston compared to Kawai. After hearing the "Steinway-Designed", "investment" and "no plastic parts" pitches, the customer is still skeptical, and mentions that he's been reading on online forum where people are expressing different views. Or, Pianomadam may even point them to this forum and encourage them to ask their questions here. Pianomadam can then attempt to manipulate the customer with her different sockies.

Pianomadam, you really should find another job.
At the very core of success in sales is credibility and honesty, and you have neither.
_________________________
Former Piano Salesman

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#59972 - 01/16/09 12:17 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
Beacon Chris Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/06/06
Posts: 441
Loc: Greenwich, CT
Madam,

LOL, I just reread your post to me and I think I was mistaken as to your meaning - the "you" in your post was not "me" rather the universal "you".

Sorry - I thought you were accusing me of not indicating my position in the industry. (underscoring the importance of grammer)

Still, if you do come, I'll still need a bio and headshot.

And by the way, I for one am still confused with regards to your gender???? \:D

BC
_________________________
Musician, Singer, Teacher, Humorist, Dad...

Member of the Faust Harrison Pianos sales team.

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#59973 - 01/16/09 12:20 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
Roger Ransom Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/19/05
Posts: 1227
Loc: SouthWest Michigan
 Quote:
Originally posted by Beacon Chris:
PianoMadam,
If you want to know who I am read this:

http://www.dispeker.com/page/pfund.html
[/b]
Carmina Burana is mine and my wife's favorite work. We have attended it anywhere we see it advertised within a reasonable distance. We have seen many different productions with no real favorites. It must be awesome to be such an important part of it.
_________________________
Laugh More
Yamaha G7 - Roland FP7

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#59974 - 01/16/09 12:33 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
Piano*Dad Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 10297
Loc: Williamsburg, VA
 Quote:
Originally posted by Beacon Chris:
(underscoring the importance of grammer)
[/b]
That's grammar, Chris. Grammar!

.
.
.
.

\:D
_________________________
Grotrian 192 #156455

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#59975 - 01/16/09 12:49 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
awewsome Chris!
_________________________
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)

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#59976 - 01/16/09 01:07 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
sophial Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 3405
Loc: US
 Quote:
Originally posted by honkytonk:
 Quote:
Originally posted by Pianomadam:
Very well, Apple. I'm too tired to argue any more. I do stand by what I said previously, though. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, as they say. No surprise, my most vocal opponents from the distant and recent past (e.g. Pianodad, windsound, Rod, Steve Cohen, honkytonk, Bear1, etc...) are leading the present witch hunt to oust me from this forum.
It goes to show their true vitriol for the brand I represent. [/b]
I have great respect for the brand you represent, and I think anyone who knows much about pianos feels the same way. When I started my current sales job, one of my first calls was to Steinway, and I'm proud to call them one of my customers.

To all the people who keep commenting about how Pianomadam has damaged Steinway's name, keep in mind that she doesn't work for Steinway.

She's just a lonely rookie salesman in the back of an empty showroom. She's desperately trying to justify her $1500 draw and hoping she covers it so she doesn't have to pay it back the next month. Lacking the experience or savvy to creatively build a customer base, she gets on the old internets between smoke breaks and looks for Marks on Pianoworld.

People here have cut her way more slack than she deserves, but we've always been a trusting bunch. She's just one of many sockies that have trolled around here.

Finally, people have speculated on whether this behavior can be effective. In my opinion, the answer is yes. Consider a scenario where a customer comes in to the good Madam's shop and asks about Boston compared to Kawai. After hearing the "Steinway-Designed", "investment" and "no plastic parts" pitches, the customer is still skeptical, and mentions that he's been reading on online forum where people are expressing different views. Or, Pianomadam may even point them to this forum and encourage them to ask their questions here. Pianomadam can then attempt to manipulate the customer with her different sockies.

Pianomadam, you really should find another job.
At the very core of success in sales is credibility and honesty, and you have neither. [/b]
great points, honkytonk!

Pianomadam, the idea that you "represent" Steinway is ludicrous and insulting to true professionals like Bob Snyder. What you represent is sneaky opportunism. I have no doubt that you'd turn around and trash the Essex and any other product you've touted around here if you were hired by another company. Please stop talking as if you actually cared about Steinway because clearly you don't or you would not be doing things that could reflect badly on them. This is about you. You need to leave the premises.

Sophia

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#59977 - 01/16/09 01:11 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
mikhailoh Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 4288
Loc: Cincinnati
My gosh there is a lot of philosophizing and handwringing over a very simple issue.

A liar and a cheat who is clearly in the industry has been found out. One of the tenets of PW is the ability for folks to come and get honest, relatively unbiased advice. Lots of industry folks here manage to provide just that. It is no longer possible for Pianomadam to add value to this forum. Not that she ever did in any reasonable proportion to her pitching.

The rules have been clear for years. They now simply need to be enforced.
_________________________
Michael

====

He is so solemn, detached and uninvolved he makes Mr. Spock look like Hunter S. Thompson at closing time.'

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#59978 - 01/16/09 01:38 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
rodmichael Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/08/08
Posts: 334
Loc: Maryland
 Quote:
Originally posted by John Pels:
I don't know gang. all this pretense to outrage is just a little bit disingenuous. You have thousands of folks hiding behind one dopey screen name after another, and when one finally is outed as a "pretender" everyone is in a snit. I contribute to a bunch of forums non piano related, and everyone posts using their real name. Seemingly we never have these issues. I tend to be an old school type guy where "my name is my bond" or something to that effect. It seems to me that if you have nothing to hide, your real name should suffice. Otherwise, I am skeptical of EVERY post I read where a real name is not attached. Monica Kern is Monica Kern, Rich Gallasini is Rich Gallasini, Rod Verhnjak is Rod Verhnjak, John Pels is John Pels, and Ken Knapp is Ken Knapp. This sort of thing likely happens a hundred times a day on this type of forum. Feigned outrage is...well...feigned. What can any reasonable person expect when you have adults playing "let's pretend". Sheesh!!! [/b]
Well, I must say I'm a bit on the side of Mr. Pels here, at least with regard to all the expressed outrage and 10 pages of it!!! Some people posting 5, 10, or 20 times. I can only respond: Get a life. Move on. Get over it.

If anyone with serious questions went out and bought an Essex piano solely on the basis of PianoMadam's surreptitious posts, not bothering to digest any of the other countless threads that discuss important considerations for a piano purchase, I would say they deserve whatever they get, perhaps something OK since I know nothing about Essex pianos.
_________________________
Rod Michael
Mason & Hamlin AA, SN 93018
Yamaha CGP-1000, SN UCNZ01010
Zoom Q3



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#59979 - 01/16/09 01:52 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
Sammae Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/13/09
Posts: 47
Loc: Ottawa, ON
With regards to previous posts from new members that feel a bit of shock over this:

I am also a new member, and have spent too many hours over the past few days going through the boards. I wrote about my self on the "lurkers" thread on the pianists board,
New memebers and lurkers
so from there you would know that I'm looking to purchase a piano in the next few months. I don't spend a lot of time on forums and I tend to be a little naive. I was taking way too much of what I've been reading on here as an honest truth. Until last night, when I read the thread Essex EUP-123E and I finally got JUST a little suspicious...
I'm so thankful to Ken for changing the subject line of this post, as it caught my attention to get me to read it. I know it's partially my fault for being so naive, but people like Pianomadam can be all too influential when it comes to newbies like me that don't know the background of this forum!

With all that being said, HA! to you for getting caught... This has definitely been a too-funny thread to read and a good kick in the butt for me! I'll see you all around! ;\)
_________________________
Re-learning (polishing):
Chopin - Prelude in D-flat major Op. 28 No 15

Working on:
Chopin - Waltz in C-sharp minor Op. 64 No. 2
Deubussy - Suite bergamasque - Clair de lune

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#59980 - 01/16/09 02:34 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
whippen boy Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 3886
Loc: San Francisco
 Quote:
Originally posted by John Pels:
I tend to be an old school type guy where "my name is my bond" or something to that effect. It seems to me that if you have nothing to hide, your real name should suffice. Otherwise, I am skeptical of EVERY post I read where a real name is not attached. Monica Kern is Monica Kern, Rich Gallasini is Rich Gallasini, Rod Verhnjak is Rod Verhnjak, John Pels is John Pels, and Ken Knapp is Ken Knapp.
Yeah, or so they say. \:D

If I told you my real name was John Smith, would you trust me any more?

My point is ... just because someone says it is so, doesn't make it so ... unless they have additional proof to back up what they say.
_________________________
Grotrian 225
S&S Hamburg-C
M&H "A" at home

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#59981 - 01/16/09 02:38 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
LisztAddict Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/12/05
Posts: 2895
Loc: Florida
I can't trust that whippen boy. People in a piano forum say he is an organist, and people in an organ forum say he is a pianist. And he might be too old to be a "boy". \:D

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#59982 - 01/16/09 02:41 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
whippen boy Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 3886
Loc: San Francisco
\:D

And John Smith is my name. Really.
_________________________
Grotrian 225
S&S Hamburg-C
M&H "A" at home

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#59983 - 01/16/09 02:52 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
lilylady Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 4974
Loc: boston north
Well, I have heard that it might be John, but Smith?

Do you think that we are that gullible?

(oooh....on the other hand...maybe we are!)

_________________________
"Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination, and life to everything."

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#59984 - 01/16/09 03:04 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
whippen boy Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 3886
Loc: San Francisco
\:\)
_________________________
Grotrian 225
S&S Hamburg-C
M&H "A" at home

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#59985 - 01/16/09 03:44 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
let's have a code, perhaps **** in a row (just incongruously interspersed in our response)

to convey a 'sockpuppet heads up'.

let the cheap mofos pay for their own advertizing.
_________________________
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)

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#59986 - 01/16/09 04:17 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
DanLaura Larson Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/01/08
Posts: 695
Loc: Pocatello, Idaho
Here's another classic thread. "Steinway Character Assasination!"

http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/21888.html

Started by L1037, but it took Pianomadam 5 pages to chime in. Maybe not a connection here, but up to this point was an all time low for the madam when she eventually slurs Glenn Gould accusing him of basically whoring for Yamaha by giving a paid endorsement.

Dan
_________________________
Dan and Laura Larson
Fazioli and Ibach grands
Larson Piano Studio
http://www.stoneformsart.com/

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#59987 - 01/16/09 04:18 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter
curry Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/17/02
Posts: 3769
Loc: Hamilton Twp, NJ
Good one Apple. So true.
_________________________
G.Fiore "aka-Curry". Tuner-Technician serving the central NJ, S.E. PA area. b214cm@aol.com Concert tuning, Regulation-voicing specialist.
Dampp-Chaser installations, piano appraisals. PTG S.Jersey Chapter 080.
Bösendorfer 214 # 47,299 214-358

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New Topics - Multiple Forums
OT: John Passion
by wimpiano
04/18/14 04:33 PM
3/4 time for 6/8 time comping patterns?
by Ben Ther
04/18/14 04:33 PM
Shanks with parallel wood grain
by JohnSprung
04/18/14 04:15 PM
Pinblocks & bridges... How long do they last?
by Piano Practice
04/18/14 03:58 PM
Spinoff: What do we think of "technique seminars"?
by TwoSnowflakes
04/18/14 02:46 PM
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