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#598711 - 01/22/04 03:37 PM Re: I can't stand this!
netizen Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/02/01
Posts: 1926
Loc: New York
Howard Hanson's symphonies. Classical Music's answer to ambien
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
_________________________
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that
we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."-- Theodore Roosevelt

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#598712 - 01/22/04 04:06 PM Re: I can't stand this!
Axtremus Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/03
Posts: 6186
I identify most with Ted2's response -- that my state of mind completely dictates what I like or do not like at any moment in time. Having said that, there is still some music that I almost never like these days:

1. Pop songs and country music that just keep repeating the same harmonic progression and the same rhythm over and over again.

2. Godowski's transcriptions of Chopin's piano work for the piano. ("Why mess with perfection?")

3. Melodies from traditional/classical music rearranged to use electronic/synthesized accompaniment.

4. Generally dislike music that repeats itself too much, this would include most minimalist work (but I do have a few favorites in the minimalist genre).

5. Recitative -- never learn to like this style, would rather listen to Rap.

 Quote:
Originally posted by DW_mod:
10. Chinese Classical Music on the piano...
I would generalize and include "classical music" of all non-European cultures into the statement above. Very few managed to transcribe well any music developed completely outside of the 12-tone equal temperament system onto a strictly 12-tone equal temperament instrument such as the piano. (As far as Chinese classical music goes, the only exceptions in my mind would be Ying Chen-Zhong's transcriptions, I think those included with his "Yellow River" Concerto CD were quite masterfully transcribed -- better than the Concerto itself.)

The reverse is also true. I have yet to find any classical western music transcribed onto any traditional Chinese instrument that I like --except some short, slow music for strings, the Hu-Qin family and the Western String family are quite compatible as both have free-floating strings, so string transcription can be made to work easier (e.g., Thais "Meditation").

[Edit:

Ted, saw your post asking for examples of "classical chinese music for the piano." Strictly speaking, there is none. The Chinese didn't get serious with the piano until way after World War II. The defining moment came with the "Yellow River Concerto" 3~4 decades ago (don't remember exact year). That's the first "major" work by a Chinese composer writen for the piano, even then, that one was a composition-by-committee sort of derivative work commissioned by an influential politician at the time, based on a choral suite originally ritten by Xian Xing-Hai, a Chinese scholar who studied Western Classical music in Russia. I think Marco Polo still publishes the "Yellow River Piano Concerto" CD. Other than this very political work, Tan Dun would be the only Chinese composer that achieved a hint of international fame. And, as mentioned, the pianist most responsible for the "Yellow River" concerto also transcribed some classical Chinese tunes for piano and I consider those to be among the best of transcribed classical Chinese music for the piano. I guess the "Yellow River Piano Concerto" CD would be a good place to start, then progress to Dan Tun who is at the "cutting edge" today. There is no significant Chinese piano music before the "Yellow River."

End Edit.]
_________________________
www.PianoRecital.org -- my piano recordings

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#598713 - 01/22/04 04:12 PM Re: I can't stand this!
8ude Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 2050
I personally can't stand waltzes by Strauss, Waldteufel, or just about any other Viennese waltz... Just don't find them interesting at all.
_________________________
What you are is an accident of birth. What I am, I am through my own efforts. There have been a thousand princes and there will be a thousand more. There is one Beethoven.

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#598714 - 01/22/04 04:42 PM Re: I can't stand this!
CrashTest Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/23/01
Posts: 4111
Just a small comment about the d minor Rachmaninoff piano concerto.

Although it has achieved a good deal of success amongst the masses, and some may view it as a bit of a sell-out. Regardless, one thing is clear when you listen to it live with a good pianist and orchestra.

It is a very effective piece for the audience. (Not to mention the pianist!)

It also has one of the most exciting endings I've heard in a long time, although it does have its shortcomings of course.

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#598715 - 01/22/04 06:00 PM Re: I can't stand this!
zorro Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 271
Loc: Mesa, AZ
 Quote:
Originally posted by DW_mod:
8. Twinkle Twinkle Little Star by Mozart
[/b]
The variations are his, but the main theme is a French lullaby.
"Ah, vous dirais-je, Maman"
zorro
_________________________
"I love Beethoven, especially the poems."
Ringo Starr

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#598716 - 01/23/04 12:33 AM Re: I can't stand this!
DW_mod Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/12/04
Posts: 117
As quoted :"...(As far as Chinese classical music goes, the only exceptions in my mind would be Ying Chen-Zhong's transcriptions, I think those included with his "Yellow River" Concerto CD were quite masterfully transcribed -- better than the Concerto itself.)"
Well, that was the type of Chinese music I'm talking about. It wasn't tormentous to listen to. It's in fact very refreshing...but perhaps it's been so overly performed these few years. U see, the problem is, they will include this as a special feature whenever they are hosting a east meets west kind of concert recitals. Other forms of classical chinese music are actually anything played be the traditional Chinese instruments such as Pipa, erhu, yang qin, the zither and so on. A lot of modern transcriptions fot the piano has comed out in these recent years and they are general flip-flops as I've found them. Talking about Western music played on Chinese instruments...I guess nothing can get as worse as China's most recent er-hu quartet. They are 4, all-sassy girls who play their er-hus standing...Doesn't this just remind you of the group 'Bond'? And to be more 'disgusted'...They played all of their tracks on their er-hus. They have been recieving great publicity and reviews in China from what I know. But shouldn't the human ears be more 'picky' and do more justice to music? It's really appauling to hear the Chinese version of the Bond girls's tracks...and to know that people could survive with that. It's not that I'm a bond fan or anything, in fact I find them equally appauling as well. But you have quite to hear the Chinese version to understand the degree od damage done. \:\) And yes...I do know that Mozart wrote only the variations. But thanks for posting. It will serve well as general info. Thank you. \:\)

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#598717 - 01/23/04 04:02 AM Re: I can't stand this!
benedict Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/21/02
Posts: 2519
Loc: European Union
 Quote:
Ah ! vous dirais-je, maman
Ce qui cause mon tourment ?
Depuis que j'ai vu Silvandre
Me regarder d'un air tendre,
Mon coeur dit a chaque instant :
"Peut-on vivre sans amant ?

L'autre jour, dans un bosquet
De fleurs, il fit un bouquet.
Il en para ma houlette,
Me disant : "Belle brunette,
Flore est moins belle que toi,
L'amour moins tendre que moi.

Je rougis, et par malheur
Un soupir trahit mon coeur.
Le cruel, avec adresse,
Profita de ma faiblesse.
Helas, maman, un faux pas
Me fit tomber dans ses bras.

Je n'avais pour tout soutien
Que ma houlette et mon chien.
L'amour voulant ma défaite
Ecarta chien et houlette.
Ah ! qu'on goute de douceur
Quand l'amour prend soin du coeur .
It is not at all a children song.
Will someone be kind enough to translate this tender confession of a teenager to her mother ?

\:\)
_________________________
Benedict

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#598718 - 01/23/04 10:41 AM Re: I can't stand this!
BruceD Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 18292
Loc: Victoria, BC
Herewith a free, non-poetic translation

Ah ! vous dirais-je, maman Shall I tell you, Mother
Ce qui cause mon tourment ? What is causing my torment?
Depuis que j'ai vu Silvandre Ever since Silvandre gave me
Me regarder d'un air tendre, That tender look
Mon coeur dit a chaque instant : My heart keeps saying:
"Peut-on vivre sans amant ? “Can I live without a lover?”

L'autre jour, dans un bosquet The other day in a floral grove
De fleurs, il fit un bouquet. He made a bouquet.
Il en para ma houlette, With it he decorated my crook*
Me disant : "Belle brunette, Saying: “Beautiful brunette
Flore est moins belle que toi, Flowers are less beautiful than you,
L'amour moins tendre que moi. Love less tender than I.”

Je rougis, et par malheur I blushed and unfortunately,
Un soupir trahit mon coeur. A sigh betrayed my heart.
Le cruel, avec adresse, The cruel one, with skill
Profita de ma faiblesse. Took advantage of my weakness.
Helas, maman, un faux pas Alas, Mother, a false step
Me fit tomber dans ses bras. Made me fall into his arms.

Je n'avais pour tout soutien I had nothing to stop me
Que ma houlette et mon chien But my crook and my dog.
L'amour voulant ma défaite But Love, wanting my downfall
Ecarta chien et houlette. Chased away both dog and crook.
Ah ! qu'on goute de douceur Ah! What sweetness you’ve tasted
Quand l'amour prend soin du coeur . When Love takes over your heart.

*Shepherd’s crook

P.S. Sorry, folks. In the document I created I had this in nice parallel columns. At the moment, I dont have the time to reformat. I'm sure you can make it out, nevertheless.

Regards,
_________________________
BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190

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#598719 - 01/23/04 01:35 PM Re: I can't stand this!
benedict Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/21/02
Posts: 2519
Loc: European Union
BruceD,

Bravissimo !
Superbe traduction.

19,5/20 is the mark you get from me.

two small corrections:

bosquet = thicket
Flore is the Goddess of flowers and gardens (Flora)

Your translation is really great. Congratulations BruceD. Your students are lucky. You do have a love for la langue de Moliere.


The real lyrics of Ah vous dirais-je maman are very far from Twinkle twinckle litte star.
And Mozart's variation are a real delight, don't you think ?
Not a piece to study, but just play for pleasure as a preparation for his sonatas I should think.

Regards.

\:\)
_________________________
Benedict

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#598720 - 01/23/04 02:24 PM Re: I can't stand this!
RealPlayer Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/02/03
Posts: 2359
Loc: NYC
I think it was partially great tiredness with the much-played classics of the piano that turned me away from them and toward a specialization in contemporary music. I could have said I "hated" them, but I don't hate them anymore. Although I still have little tolerance for the warhorses.

There are plenty of pieces and composers I can't stand among the contemporary repertoire, though. It would take a while to think of them all. One who always irritates me is George Crumb, and I have played and listened to a fair amount of his stuff over the years. It just comes across to me as self-conscious slick quasi-mysticism, with usages of the great innovations of Cowell and Cage for mawkish and strained effects. And then there's the whispering and the masks and...yecch.

There. I've probably alienated a whole lotta people with that one...sorry. Guess George won't be calling to ask me to play some new thing...

I used to think of myself as the composer's servant, that I would do my best with anyone's music and feel good about it. Now I feel more selective, and if I'm presented with a piece to play that doesn't appeal to me, or that I can see is mediocre writing, I think of all that energy I would have to put into something that doesn't further my own musical growth. And yes, this does sometimes mean turning down some performances and recordings that could help pay the bills.
_________________________
Joe

www.josephkubera.com

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#598721 - 01/23/04 03:06 PM Re: I can't stand this!
Axtremus Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/03
Posts: 6186
 Quote:
Originally posted by DW_mod:
A lot of modern transcriptions for the piano has comed out in these recent years and they are general flip-flops as I've found them. Talking about Western music played on Chinese instruments...I guess nothing can get as worse as China's most recent er-hu quartet. They are 4, all-sassy girls who play their er-hus standing...Doesn't this just remind you of the group 'Bond'? And to be more 'disgusted'...They played all of their tracks on their er-hus.
Wah! Thanks for the update on the state of the Chinese "classical music" scene. Playing Er-Hu standing up? Sad to hear it has come to this. Vennessa May (sp) did something unconventional with the violin, but at least it was fresh and entertaining to listen to. (p.s. Got a web address where I can look up this Bond-wannabe Er-Hu quartet you mentioned? Thanks.)
_________________________
www.PianoRecital.org -- my piano recordings

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#598722 - 01/23/04 07:37 PM Re: I can't stand this!
me_dup1 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/19/02
Posts: 261
Loc: north of 53
You are talking about the 12 girls band. 4 on erhu, 3 on pipa, some dizi, some guzheng, etc. The way these 12 girls were chosen was to have dinner with the guy in charge. Well, you can imagine the rest. They played a horrible rendition of "Take Five" on their DVD using Chinese instruments.

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#598723 - 01/23/04 09:32 PM Re: I can't stand this!
DW_mod Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/12/04
Posts: 117
Yah, Thanks to Me. That was the group I was talking about. Man! You've quite got to see it yourself to understand the damage done to music. I don't really like Vanessa Mae as a person ( I know her personally) But, you've got to admit that she does justice to music in a new 'dimensional' way. :p
One other Violinist that I really don't like is Kam Ning. She's the silver medallist for the prestigious Queen Elizabeth Violin Competion. She's really fantastic, but the wat she talks to her Dad just makes you wanna give her a tight slap on the face.
But she's really one hell of a violinist. So I guess I shouldn't criticise her where Music is not concern. But do check out the latest Chinese group we mentioned. I'll post the web add if I can find. Thank you.

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#598724 - 01/23/04 09:34 PM Re: I can't stand this!
DW_mod Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/12/04
Posts: 117
Thank you 'me'. Where are you from by the way? :rolleyes:

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#598725 - 01/24/04 12:42 AM Re: I can't stand this!
BDB Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21926
Loc: Oakland
I agree with the assessment of Howard Hanson. Actually, many years ago I was given a collection of recordings of music by American composers. There were only a couple of them that I liked, Randall Thompson and Arthur Foote.

I could admire the rest for trying to make their own voice. But it doesn't appeal to me. I guess it's the same with most other people, too.
_________________________
Semipro Tech

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#598726 - 01/24/04 02:37 AM Re: I can't stand this!
David Burton Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/28/01
Posts: 1759
Loc: Coxsackie, New York
 Quote:
Originally posted by benedict:
This pianist corner is an extraordinary place where absolutely every person has learnt to respect and appreciate all the different experiences and viewpoints that are expressed.[/b]
Yes, sure beats the Coffee Room sometimes.

This afternoon we had a little music fest where some piano music was played and then some records and CD’s were played. The styles ranged from classical to modern pop music. I found my reactions interesting:

A Scarlatti sonata and a Bach French Suite. I’m getting tired of both, but better not as I have to perform them more soon.

Chopin nocturnes, especially the fourth in F major with the torrential middle section, a real tear jerker for me, don’t know why. I love it. Wait til I’ve played it 150 times. I’ll hate it as much as some of the others.

Some pop tunes from the 70’s. Couldn’t stand the lyrics, couldn’t stand the SINGING? One group was YES. Remember them? They used to be hot in the early to mid 70’s, the decade that I wished would end quickly. Their lead singer sounded AWFUL to me and their lyrics were a bad attempt at being existentially meaningful or profound but the whole thing ended up sounding DATED. There were The Beach Boys, and then Dave Brubeck. He was barely passable.

Am I getting TIRED?

Yes indeed, much German music can sound too German, much Russian music too Russian, Italian music, etc.

More and more I’m playing and listening to French and English composers, and the more obscure the better. There are wonderful pieces by Fauré and Bax and others in that period between 1875 and 1935.

I can sympathize with anyone who gets tired of hearing the same things all the time and I realize that some music can be just too demanding on both the listener and performer to be borne.

Ever try playing a Mahler symphony for a girl you’ve just met? Don’t do it unless she asks for it. And the ones who ask you to play Wagner on a first date are probably to be avoided.

Some more dislikes? OK, most Soviet era compositions by not too well known composers leave me cold as a frigid night in Moscow in the dead of winter. This stuff is all cranked out to state regulations and is as emotionally stale as a piece of melba toast found in an ancient tomb.

I am also really disgusted with much of the work of Hans Werner Henze.

But there are exceptions to everything and Alfred Schnittke seems to be one of them. It’s his weird humor that I like. He’s a state composer who is subtly jeering the state in practically every piece. Of course this too can get tiresome.

It all gets tiresome. We’re all getting older and tired-er. Whenever are we going to get enough sleep?

Oh I’ve got one, anyone here have any liking for William Schuman’s music? What is there to like? Or Tibor Serly? Pu-leeeze! (How’s that for childish?).

I hope and pray that nothing I have ever written is as crushingly boring. But to someone it will be no doubt.

I generally love Brahms, Sibelius and Elgar. Others simply can’t stand them.

I’m not really at a level to play much Rachmaninoff (and don’t have a piano adequate to his needs, yet). But much of his work I find very interesting. He was almost but not quite the last Romantic composer and may have been the last Czarist composer. But moving away from his big orchestral works (I find his symphonies more interesting than his piano concertos), there’s a lot there to explore.

And I’m not yet ready to put down Asian composers who use the piano whether Chinese or Japanese. Much of their music is either a very new reflection on an ancient culture that has continued for three times the length of Western civilization or a bit of national folk music transferred onto the piano. In either case, I sense something new and different to our ears could develop there.

Hanson’s symphonies? His whole output for that matter? Ever heard any David Diamond? Yawn! These are CD’s I bought to try out and maybe I’v e played them once. Every time they come up I pass.

Oh boy! Axtremus mentioned COUNTRY MUSIC. Now there’s some that I like and a lot that I just can’t stand. When it’s the authentic untainted Nashville stuff, fine, but mix it with rock n roll (rockabilly) or anything else, and it really grates on my nerves. I can only take Texas swing in small doses and Bluegrass, which I admit must take some skill to bring off, also leaves me pretty cold. My sister plays it. When I play late romantic stuff for her she says, “I’m sorry but I don’t like my emotions played with like that.” She really hates Romantic classical the most. Different strokes.

Matter of fact, Axtremus’s whole list I’d agree with.

 Quote:
Originally posted by 8ude:
I personally can't stand waltzes by Strauss, Waldteufel, or just about any other Viennese waltz... Just don't find them interesting at all. [/b]
OK, but maybe you should try dancing them or going to Vienna, late spring or early summer. With a little of that cream sent from heaven of theirs that puts any other dairy product you’ve ever tried to shame, and a little fresh Gruener Weltliner and voila! You’d get the idea. Oh and of all the women I’ve ever seen (and I don’t see that good), the Austrian women made the blood rush to my throat and other places. Such wonderful good looking women! I’ve rarely had such a great time. Expensive, but great.

Excellent sojourn through Ah ! vous dirais-je, maman. Thanks to both Benedict and BruceD. And I have always liked these variations though they aren’t technically very difficult, don’t know why.

RealPlayer says, “One who always irritates me is George Crumb, and I have played and listened to a fair amount of his stuff over the years. It just comes across to me as self-conscious slick quasi-mysticism, with usages of the great innovations of Cowell and Cage for mawkish and strained effects. And then there's the whispering and the masks and...yecch.”

Yes, I agree; pretty Crumby music. What is it with composers who think they need a gimmick? Just write music, some music, anything without too much of one. On the other hand Eliot Carter has mostly improved in my estimation over time.

He further says something I really like, “Now I feel more selective, and if I'm presented with a piece to play that doesn't appeal to me, or that I can see is mediocre writing, I think of all that energy I would have to put into something that doesn't further my own musical growth. And yes, this does sometimes mean turning down some performances and recordings that could help pay the bills.”

Why bother playing something you can’t even get into? How do you expect anyone listening to get into it if you can’t? Very well put, and I quite agree.

Arthur Foote, now that’s a good one. I wouldn’t mind hearing more of these proper Bostonian composers from the late 19th century revived. That is, until my ears get tired of them too.

So far this is an excellent thread.
_________________________
David Burton's Blog
http://dpbmss041010.blogspot.com/

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#598727 - 01/24/04 02:51 AM Re: I can't stand this!
Dreamaurora Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/23/04
Posts: 228
 Quote:
Originally posted by DW_mod:
Yah, Thanks to Me. That was the group I was talking about. Man! You've quite got to see it yourself to understand the damage done to music. I don't really like Vanessa Mae as a person ( I know her personally) But, you've got to admit that she does justice to music in a new 'dimensional' way. :p
One other Violinist that I really don't like is Kam Ning. She's the silver medallist for the prestigious Queen Elizabeth Violin Competion. She's really fantastic, but the wat she talks to her Dad just makes you wanna give her a tight slap on the face.
But she's really one hell of a violinist. So I guess I shouldn't criticise her where Music is not concern. But do check out the latest Chinese group we mentioned. I'll post the web add if I can find. Thank you. [/b]
Care to tell me how is the way she talked to her dad ? My impression of Kam Ning so far that she is a wonderful violinist and as a bonus, stunning in the looks department ( check her out in that dress during her playing of Bersntein' Serenade, simply stunning ).

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#598728 - 01/24/04 04:45 AM Re: I can't stand this!
DW_mod Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/12/04
Posts: 117
kam Ning's Dad is an artist also...He's quite liberal and astute in thinking. So they kinda bicker all the time. But a re-enactment of a daily, example of such minute clashes ( in the public ):
Dad : 'You know the time when..."
Kam Ning :' yeah...Yeah...I know. Keep queit...'
Dad :'I'm trying to tell others, let me..'
Kam Ning :' SSSHHH! NO! You stop talking! I want to talk...Why do you need to talk all the time. You would be better off keeping your mouth shut.'
They always have these seemingly 'fun, no harm' bickers all the time, which to me is just plain rudeness and spoiltness. I was generally really taken aback and disgusted when I first saw her with this kinda behaviour. But suprisingly enough, her Dad seems to quite enjoy their sizzling 'style' of conversation. Well, what do you know...Maybe it's time that we get a paradime shift.
Maybe it's just me who find this approach to conversation appauling. But when is telling your Dad to shut up in the public an acceptable behaviour? \:o

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#598729 - 01/25/04 03:39 PM Re: I can't stand this!
me_dup1 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/19/02
Posts: 261
Loc: north of 53
 Quote:
Originally posted by DW_mod:
But do check out the latest Chinese group we mentioned. I'll post the web add if I can find. Thank you. [/b]
Here is a webpage about the 12 girls band.
http://www1.chinadaily.com.cn/en/doc/2003-08/13/content_254528.htm

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#598730 - 07/02/04 09:38 PM Re: I can't stand this!
pqbd Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/01/04
Posts: 47
Resurrecting this thread here, because I'd like to read more responses from everyone, and I'd like to contribute. These are what I dislike:

* Haydn piano sonatas
* Mozart piano sonatas (except[/b] the F major, K. 332, I think. That was the first real piano sonata I learned in its entirety, as a piano student)
* pretty much anything by Weber (especially[/b] the overture to Oberon, eww)
* Schubert's "Great" symphony (seems to go on and on to me)
* Tchaikovsky's 4th symphony (though I do like the 5th and the 'Pathetique'), and the piano concerto #1
* Mussorgsky's "Night on Bald Mountain"
* some of the Rachmaninoff preludes (besides the famous ones in c# minor and g minor, of course)
* Schoenberg's "Pierrot Lunaire". I also cannot stand any piece that employs Sprichstimme. It just sounds awful to my ears.
* any piece of twelve-tone music (I find the system limiting and pointless), and anything that's atonal, for that matter
* Bartok's string quartets

I used to not be a big fan of Brahms, but since I read a biography and listened to some CD's, I've found myself warming up to his music.

As to some of the other responses, I can't comment, because I'm not familar with them. I'll embarrass myself and list some of the things I don't know, or have never heard:

* Bach's Christmas oratorio
* Schubert sonatas
* Bruckner's symphonies
* most of Schumann's piano music (except for some pieces in the "Album for the Young," and "Carneval")
* anything by Cesar Franck
* pretty much anything by Mahler
* most stuff from the 20th century and beyond (Glass, Reich, Crumb, Ives, Hanson, Schuman, etc.)


pqbd

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#598731 - 07/02/04 11:33 PM Re: I can't stand this!
signa Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/04
Posts: 8483
Loc: Ohio, USA
i don't like Brahms's sonatas (i tried to like it through a recital with his 3rd sonata and still enjoyed nothing), Mahler's symphomies (sitting through his 5th last summer was painful and long), Shostakovich's 15th symphony (which may sound interesting here or there at the time but to me just bunch of sound clusters), and maybe more, but can't think of anymore for now.

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#598732 - 07/03/04 02:03 AM Re: I can't stand this!
Ðanor Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/02
Posts: 1232
Loc: Santiago, Chile
this is awesome. How people can hate particular works considered in history as "masterpiece".

Speaking as myself:

I hate godowsky sad transcriptions of chopin etudes, specially that one who mix like 3 etudes in 1 (it's like to listen that "fur elise" techno version!!! )

-I can't stand chopin's 1º concerto
-can't stand most of the liszt etudes (except trascendentals nº10 and wildjagd (is that the spelling?))
-can't stand beethoven's 2nd sonata
-can't stand most of luciano berio works
-can't stand most of american composers! (except cage and steve reich)
-can't stand that someone can't stand mozart
-can't stand most of paganini works
-can't stand xenakis
-can't stand alkan at all. one of the worst composers i have ever known (however i highly respect him as a pianist, and his contribution to the technique development............)
-can't stand purcell
-can't stand most of barroque music (for me bach is not barroque, is a completely different story)
-can't stand the "light" cadenza of the rach 3.
-can't stand horowitz
-can't stand perahia recordings of schumann
-can't stand idil biret recordings of chopin
-can't stand martha argerich's kreisleriana
-can't stand horowitz transcriptions....
-can't stand sorajbi
-can't stand P. Glass

Well im really tired, i better go sleep :::::: ºººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººº
_________________________
ss ao lr ue dt on si .u dq ar no on ra qd u. is no td eu rl oa ss

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#598733 - 07/03/04 02:50 AM Re: I can't stand this!
starmender Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/06/03
Posts: 461
Loc: Australia
"How many Phillip Glasses does it take to change a lightbulb?"

"How many?"

"How many Phillip Glasses does it take to change a lightbulb?"

"How many?"

"How many Phillip Glasses does it take to change a lightbulb?"

I hate minimalism, and Rachmaninov, and TV themes cooked up by blokes with guitars.

"Country music" is an oxymoron.

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#598734 - 07/03/04 03:11 AM Re: I can't stand this!
Mozart1969 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/18/04
Posts: 276
Loc: Stresa, Italy
I dislike many of the popular classics simply because they are overplayed. For example, Vivaldi's Quattro Stagioni, Mozart's Eine Kleine NachtMusik.... Musically speaking they are quite interesting but I have just heard them too often.

I found it interesting to read comments about Mahler. Well well. I adore Mahler. I have all of the scores to his symphonies and often play along the flute/piccolo part (as practice)with a cd recording. I also love Shostakovich, Bruckner (especially his Motets and Mass in D minor) Perhaps you would think I like Wagner too. Not the case. Some of his works I like but others no. I like to discover rare works. Puccini's Requiem for example or pieces that are rarely played. I like Elgar's choral music.

Maybe Mahler and Shostakovich could be considered as 'hardcore' classical music with a limited audience? How can you not like the final movement of Mahler's 2nd Symph.? Truly enlightening for me! One can feel oneself being lifted to the heavens!
_________________________
Je lieber moecht'ich in Himmel sein!

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#598735 - 07/03/04 09:32 AM Re: I can't stand this!
Nina Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/13/01
Posts: 6467
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
This is an interesting thread-- I didn't read it on its first go-round.

I generally agree with the "old warhorses" comments, but I just couldn't go along with the folks who dislike Handel's Messiah. It's been one of my favorites for years and years!

My hypothesis is that the folks who don't like it have little experience with the ENTIRE work, but instead are commenting on "Hallelujah Chorus" or "For Unto Us..." The full piece has some magnificent sections, and runs the gamut of emotion from elation to total despair. My second hypotheses is that the trend for Messiah has been to seriously overproduce it... double string sections, chorus of hundreds, etc.

This past Christmas the Phoenix Symphony performed the complete Messiah with the original (small) orchestration and about 30 voices. They performed around town in various venues. I saw it in a church in Scottsdale that sat perhaps 300 people. It was magnificent. Beautifully played, balanced, not at all bombastic. The soprano soloist, in particular, was wonderful. A great evening.

So don't you go dissin' Georg Fredrick, OK?? \:\)

Nina

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#598736 - 07/03/04 08:00 PM Re: I can't stand this!
iplaythepiano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/30/04
Posts: 41
Only three pieces come to mind right now, but I hate them more for what people do to them than for the music itself. Some examples are:

1. Fur Elise

I can always count on hearing this played by EVERY SINGLE NEW PIANO STUDENT I EVER MEET!!! I never liked this piece, and the fact that I would always hear it whenever my little brothers and sisters are watching "Arthur" did not help matters. While almost everyone I meet praises this piece for its so-called beauty, I just find it annoying.

2. Flight of the Bumblebee, Moonlight Sonata 3rd movement, and any other glorified fast tune you care to name.

I hate it when you can play beautiful pieces like the second movement of Beethoven's Sonata op.13, Chopin's Prelude op.28 no.7, and Bach's Jesu Joy of Man's Desiring, and people will think you are okay, but you have to play something really fast before you can be really good.

3. Anything, when it is played by Liberace.

Do you have to ask?

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#598737 - 07/03/04 10:04 PM Re: I can't stand this!
ChrisKeys Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 1278
Loc: Dallas, TX
 Quote:
Originally posted by EHpianist:
I have never warmed to Hindemith. His music has never moved me emotionally or intellectually in any way.[/b]
Couldn't agree more! I have a piece of his and I have never liked it.

Also, I don't like Khatchaturian (what little of his piano pieces I have tried...)

Chris

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#598738 - 07/04/04 09:09 AM Re: I can't stand this!
BDB Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21926
Loc: Oakland
It's hard to judge a composer on the basis of one piece, especially someone as variable as Hindemith. I don't like his first piano sonata at all, but the other two are nice. The Op. 11 #4 viola sonata is a beautiful piece.
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#598739 - 07/04/04 10:47 PM Re: I can't stand this!
Frungy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 283
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Fur Elise is so overplayed, I decided to learn it with the hands switched (left hand playing top, right hand playing bottom). Give it a try, it's pretty fun, and you can show off against the novices :-P.

Anyway, having just played Bartok's Miraculous Mandarin, I'd have to say it's one of the worst pieces I've ever played. I like his Concerto for Orchestra, but the MM has no structure whatsoever, it's like he just glued a bunch of motifs together.
Next concert we're doing Beethoven's 7th (love the 2nd movement) and Bruckner's 9th (without finale). I'd have to agree that Bruckner is one of the most repetitive composers I've heard. "I'll take a 10 minute movement, and slap a repeat mark at the end. I won't even bother changing the key."

I like almost all romantic music (Bruckner doesn't count, they even had to call one of his symphonies "romantic".) I'm surprised about the hostility to Tchaikovsky and Grieg's piano concerti... ignoring the repetitive chords in the T, there's a very beautiful melody there. And I love his violin concerto.

I blame Schoenberg for the destruction of classical music. The Russians like Rachmaninoff and Prokofiev kept romantic music alive as long as possible, but now there's practically nothing except atonal "innovative" garbage. I'd rather listen to a symphonic adaptation of Nintendo theme music than anything coming out today.

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#598740 - 07/05/04 06:57 AM Re: I can't stand this!
mrenaud Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/29/02
Posts: 1315
Loc: Switzerland
 Quote:
Originally posted by Frungy:
I blame Schoenberg for the destruction of classical music. The Russians like Rachmaninoff and Prokofiev kept romantic music alive as long as possible, but now there's practically nothing except atonal "innovative" garbage. I'd rather listen to a symphonic adaptation of Nintendo theme music than anything coming out today.[/b]
Schoenberg has, if anything, kept classical music alive. Surely you've sampled a representative selection of 20th century music to reach such a conclusion.

Besides, the Miraculous Mandarin is of course episodic. It's a ballet score, after all.

I have also expanded my list a bit. I can't stand:

- Bach
- Mozart
- Rachmaninov
- Grieg
- Tchaikovsky
- Chopin
- Generally all music that sounds older than it is
_________________________
I have an ice cream. I cannot mail it, for it will melt.

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