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Howard Hanson's symphonies. Classical Music's answer to ambien
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I identify most with Ted2's response -- that my state of mind completely dictates what I like or do not like at any moment in time. Having said that, there is still some music that I almost never like these days:

1. Pop songs and country music that just keep repeating the same harmonic progression and the same rhythm over and over again.

2. Godowski's transcriptions of Chopin's piano work for the piano. ("Why mess with perfection?")

3. Melodies from traditional/classical music rearranged to use electronic/synthesized accompaniment.

4. Generally dislike music that repeats itself too much, this would include most minimalist work (but I do have a few favorites in the minimalist genre).

5. Recitative -- never learn to like this style, would rather listen to Rap.

I would generalize and include "classical music" of all non-European cultures into the statement above. Very few managed to transcribe well any music developed completely outside of the 12-tone equal temperament system onto a strictly 12-tone equal temperament instrument such as the piano. (As far as Chinese classical music goes, the only exceptions in my mind would be Ying Chen-Zhong's transcriptions, I think those included with his "Yellow River" Concerto CD were quite masterfully transcribed -- better than the Concerto itself.)

The reverse is also true. I have yet to find any classical western music transcribed onto any traditional Chinese instrument that I like --except some short, slow music for strings, the Hu-Qin family and the Western String family are quite compatible as both have free-floating strings, so string transcription can be made to work easier (e.g., Thais "Meditation").

[Edit:

Ted, saw your post asking for examples of "classical chinese music for the piano." Strictly speaking, there is none. The Chinese didn't get serious with the piano until way after World War II. The defining moment came with the "Yellow River Concerto" 3~4 decades ago (don't remember exact year). That's the first "major" work by a Chinese composer writen for the piano, even then, that one was a composition-by-committee sort of derivative work commissioned by an influential politician at the time, based on a choral suite originally ritten by Xian Xing-Hai, a Chinese scholar who studied Western Classical music in Russia. I think Marco Polo still publishes the "Yellow River Piano Concerto" CD. Other than this very political work, Tan Dun would be the only Chinese composer that achieved a hint of international fame. And, as mentioned, the pianist most responsible for the "Yellow River" concerto also transcribed some classical Chinese tunes for piano and I consider those to be among the best of transcribed classical Chinese music for the piano. I guess the "Yellow River Piano Concerto" CD would be a good place to start, then progress to Dan Tun who is at the "cutting edge" today. There is no significant Chinese piano music before the "Yellow River."

End Edit.]

I personally can't stand waltzes by Strauss, Waldteufel, or just about any other Viennese waltz... Just don't find them interesting at all.

Just a small comment about the d minor Rachmaninoff piano concerto.

Although it has achieved a good deal of success amongst the masses, and some may view it as a bit of a sell-out. Regardless, one thing is clear when you listen to it live with a good pianist and orchestra.

It is a very effective piece for the audience. (Not to mention the pianist!)

It also has one of the most exciting endings I've heard in a long time, although it does have its shortcomings of course.

The variations are his, but the main theme is a French lullaby.
"Ah, vous dirais-je, Maman"
zorro

As quoted :"...(As far as Chinese classical music goes, the only exceptions in my mind would be Ying Chen-Zhong's transcriptions, I think those included with his "Yellow River" Concerto CD were quite masterfully transcribed -- better than the Concerto itself.)"
Well, that was the type of Chinese music I'm talking about. It wasn't tormentous to listen to. It's in fact very refreshing...but perhaps it's been so overly performed these few years. U see, the problem is, they will include this as a special feature whenever they are hosting a east meets west kind of concert recitals. Other forms of classical chinese music are actually anything played be the traditional Chinese instruments such as Pipa, erhu, yang qin, the zither and so on. A lot of modern transcriptions fot the piano has comed out in these recent years and they are general flip-flops as I've found them. Talking about Western music played on Chinese instruments...I guess nothing can get as worse as China's most recent er-hu quartet. They are 4, all-sassy girls who play their er-hus standing...Doesn't this just remind you of the group 'Bond'? And to be more 'disgusted'...They played all of their tracks on their er-hus. They have been recieving great publicity and reviews in China from what I know. But shouldn't the human ears be more 'picky' and do more justice to music? It's really appauling to hear the Chinese version of the Bond girls's tracks...and to know that people could survive with that. It's not that I'm a bond fan or anything, in fact I find them equally appauling as well. But you have quite to hear the Chinese version to understand the degree od damage done. And yes...I do know that Mozart wrote only the variations. But thanks for posting. It will serve well as general info. Thank you.

It is not at all a children song.
Will someone be kind enough to translate this tender confession of a teenager to her mother ?

Herewith a free, non-poetic translation

Ah ! vous dirais-je, maman Shall I tell you, Mother
Ce qui cause mon tourment ? What is causing my torment?
Depuis que j'ai vu Silvandre Ever since Silvandre gave me
Me regarder d'un air tendre, That tender look
Mon coeur dit a chaque instant : My heart keeps saying:
"Peut-on vivre sans amant ? “Can I live without a lover?”

L'autre jour, dans un bosquet The other day in a floral grove
De fleurs, il fit un bouquet. He made a bouquet.
Il en para ma houlette, With it he decorated my crook*
Me disant : "Belle brunette, Saying: “Beautiful brunette
Flore est moins belle que toi, Flowers are less beautiful than you,
L'amour moins tendre que moi. Love less tender than I.”

Je rougis, et par malheur I blushed and unfortunately,
Un soupir trahit mon coeur. A sigh betrayed my heart.
Le cruel, avec adresse, The cruel one, with skill
Profita de ma faiblesse. Took advantage of my weakness.
Helas, maman, un faux pas Alas, Mother, a false step
Me fit tomber dans ses bras. Made me fall into his arms.

Je n'avais pour tout soutien I had nothing to stop me
Que ma houlette et mon chien But my crook and my dog.
L'amour voulant ma défaite But Love, wanting my downfall
Ecarta chien et houlette. Chased away both dog and crook.
Ah ! qu'on goute de douceur Ah! What sweetness you’ve tasted
Quand l'amour prend soin du coeur . When Love takes over your heart.

*Shepherd’s crook

P.S. Sorry, folks. In the document I created I had this in nice parallel columns. At the moment, I dont have the time to reformat. I'm sure you can make it out, nevertheless.

Regards,

BruceD,

Bravissimo !
Superbe traduction.

19,5/20 is the mark you get from me.

two small corrections:

bosquet = thicket
Flore is the Goddess of flowers and gardens (Flora)

Your translation is really great. Congratulations BruceD. Your students are lucky. You do have a love for la langue de Moliere.


The real lyrics of Ah vous dirais-je maman are very far from Twinkle twinckle litte star.
And Mozart's variation are a real delight, don't you think ?
Not a piece to study, but just play for pleasure as a preparation for his sonatas I should think.

Regards.

I think it was partially great tiredness with the much-played classics of the piano that turned me away from them and toward a specialization in contemporary music. I could have said I "hated" them, but I don't hate them anymore. Although I still have little tolerance for the warhorses.

There are plenty of pieces and composers I can't stand among the contemporary repertoire, though. It would take a while to think of them all. One who always irritates me is George Crumb, and I have played and listened to a fair amount of his stuff over the years. It just comes across to me as self-conscious slick quasi-mysticism, with usages of the great innovations of Cowell and Cage for mawkish and strained effects. And then there's the whispering and the masks and...yecch.

There. I've probably alienated a whole lotta people with that one...sorry. Guess George won't be calling to ask me to play some new thing...

I used to think of myself as the composer's servant, that I would do my best with anyone's music and feel good about it. Now I feel more selective, and if I'm presented with a piece to play that doesn't appeal to me, or that I can see is mediocre writing, I think of all that energy I would have to put into something that doesn't further my own musical growth. And yes, this does sometimes mean turning down some performances and recordings that could help pay the bills.

Wah! Thanks for the update on the state of the Chinese "classical music" scene. Playing Er-Hu standing up? Sad to hear it has come to this. Vennessa May (sp) did something unconventional with the violin, but at least it was fresh and entertaining to listen to. (p.s. Got a web address where I can look up this Bond-wannabe Er-Hu quartet you mentioned? Thanks.)

You are talking about the 12 girls band. 4 on erhu, 3 on pipa, some dizi, some guzheng, etc. The way these 12 girls were chosen was to have dinner with the guy in charge. Well, you can imagine the rest. They played a horrible rendition of "Take Five" on their DVD using Chinese instruments.

Yah, Thanks to Me. That was the group I was talking about. Man! You've quite got to see it yourself to understand the damage done to music. I don't really like Vanessa Mae as a person ( I know her personally) But, you've got to admit that she does justice to music in a new 'dimensional' way. :p
One other Violinist that I really don't like is Kam Ning. She's the silver medallist for the prestigious Queen Elizabeth Violin Competion. She's really fantastic, but the wat she talks to her Dad just makes you wanna give her a tight slap on the face.
But she's really one heck of a violinist. So I guess I shouldn't criticise her where Music is not concern. But do check out the latest Chinese group we mentioned. I'll post the web add if I can find. Thank you.

Thank you 'me'. Where are you from by the way? :rolleyes:

I agree with the assessment of Howard Hanson. Actually, many years ago I was given a collection of recordings of music by American composers. There were only a couple of them that I liked, Randall Thompson and Arthur Foote.

I could admire the rest for trying to make their own voice. But it doesn't appeal to me. I guess it's the same with most other people, too.

Yes, sure beats the Coffee Room sometimes.

This afternoon we had a little music fest where some piano music was played and then some records and CD’s were played. The styles ranged from classical to modern pop music. I found my reactions interesting:

A Scarlatti sonata and a Bach French Suite. I’m getting tired of both, but better not as I have to perform them more soon.

Chopin nocturnes, especially the fourth in F major with the torrential middle section, a real tear jerker for me, don’t know why. I love it. Wait til I’ve played it 150 times. I’ll hate it as much as some of the others.

Some pop tunes from the 70’s. Couldn’t stand the lyrics, couldn’t stand the SINGING? One group was YES. Remember them? They used to be hot in the early to mid 70’s, the decade that I wished would end quickly. Their lead singer sounded AWFUL to me and their lyrics were a bad attempt at being existentially meaningful or profound but the whole thing ended up sounding DATED. There were The Beach Boys, and then Dave Brubeck. He was barely passable.

Am I getting TIRED?

Yes indeed, much German music can sound too German, much Russian music too Russian, Italian music, etc.

More and more I’m playing and listening to French and English composers, and the more obscure the better. There are wonderful pieces by Fauré and Bax and others in that period between 1875 and 1935.

I can sympathize with anyone who gets tired of hearing the same things all the time and I realize that some music can be just too demanding on both the listener and performer to be borne.

Ever try playing a Mahler symphony for a girl you’ve just met? Don’t do it unless she asks for it. And the ones who ask you to play Wagner on a first date are probably to be avoided.

Some more dislikes? OK, most Soviet era compositions by not too well known composers leave me cold as a frigid night in Moscow in the dead of winter. This stuff is all cranked out to state regulations and is as emotionally stale as a piece of melba toast found in an ancient tomb.

I am also really disgusted with much of the work of Hans Werner Henze.

But there are exceptions to everything and Alfred Schnittke seems to be one of them. It’s his weird humor that I like. He’s a state composer who is subtly jeering the state in practically every piece. Of course this too can get tiresome.

It all gets tiresome. We’re all getting older and tired-er. Whenever are we going to get enough sleep?

Oh I’ve got one, anyone here have any liking for William Schuman’s music? What is there to like? Or Tibor Serly? Pu-leeeze! (How’s that for childish?).

I hope and pray that nothing I have ever written is as crushingly boring. But to someone it will be no doubt.

I generally love Brahms, Sibelius and Elgar. Others simply can’t stand them.

I’m not really at a level to play much Rachmaninoff (and don’t have a piano adequate to his needs, yet). But much of his work I find very interesting. He was almost but not quite the last Romantic composer and may have been the last Czarist composer. But moving away from his big orchestral works (I find his symphonies more interesting than his piano concertos), there’s a lot there to explore.

And I’m not yet ready to put down Asian composers who use the piano whether Chinese or Japanese. Much of their music is either a very new reflection on an ancient culture that has continued for three times the length of Western civilization or a bit of national folk music transferred onto the piano. In either case, I sense something new and different to our ears could develop there.

Hanson’s symphonies? His whole output for that matter? Ever heard any David Diamond? Yawn! These are CD’s I bought to try out and maybe I’v e played them once. Every time they come up I pass.

Oh boy! Axtremus mentioned COUNTRY MUSIC. Now there’s some that I like and a lot that I just can’t stand. When it’s the authentic untainted Nashville stuff, fine, but mix it with rock n roll (rockabilly) or anything else, and it really grates on my nerves. I can only take Texas swing in small doses and Bluegrass, which I admit must take some skill to bring off, also leaves me pretty cold. My sister plays it. When I play late romantic stuff for her she says, “I’m sorry but I don’t like my emotions played with like that.” She really hates Romantic classical the most. Different strokes.

Matter of fact, Axtremus’s whole list I’d agree with.

OK, but maybe you should try dancing them or going to Vienna, late spring or early summer. With a little of that cream sent from heaven of theirs that puts any other dairy product you’ve ever tried to shame, and a little fresh Gruener Weltliner and voila! You’d get the idea. Oh and of all the women I’ve ever seen (and I don’t see that good), the Austrian women made the blood rush to my throat and other places. Such wonderful good looking women! I’ve rarely had such a great time. Expensive, but great.

Excellent sojourn through Ah ! vous dirais-je, maman. Thanks to both Benedict and BruceD. And I have always liked these variations though they aren’t technically very difficult, don’t know why.

RealPlayer says, “One who always irritates me is George Crumb, and I have played and listened to a fair amount of his stuff over the years. It just comes across to me as self-conscious slick quasi-mysticism, with usages of the great innovations of Cowell and Cage for mawkish and strained effects. And then there's the whispering and the masks and...yecch.”

Yes, I agree; pretty Crumby music. What is it with composers who think they need a gimmick? Just write music, some music, anything without too much of one. On the other hand Eliot Carter has mostly improved in my estimation over time.

He further says something I really like, “Now I feel more selective, and if I'm presented with a piece to play that doesn't appeal to me, or that I can see is mediocre writing, I think of all that energy I would have to put into something that doesn't further my own musical growth. And yes, this does sometimes mean turning down some performances and recordings that could help pay the bills.”

Why bother playing something you can’t even get into? How do you expect anyone listening to get into it if you can’t? Very well put, and I quite agree.

Arthur Foote, now that’s a good one. I wouldn’t mind hearing more of these proper Bostonian composers from the late 19th century revived. That is, until my ears get tired of them too.

So far this is an excellent thread.

Care to tell me how is the way she talked to her dad ? My impression of Kam Ning so far that she is a wonderful violinist and as a bonus, stunning in the looks department ( check her out in that dress during her playing of Bersntein' Serenade, simply stunning ).

kam Ning's Dad is an artist also...He's quite liberal and astute in thinking. So they kinda bicker all the time. But a re-enactment of a daily, example of such minute clashes ( in the public ):
Dad : 'You know the time when..."
Kam Ning :' yeah...Yeah...I know. Keep queit...'
Dad :'I'm trying to tell others, let me..'
Kam Ning :' SSSHHH! NO! You stop talking! I want to talk...Why do you need to talk all the time. You would be better off keeping your mouth shut.'
They always have these seemingly 'fun, no harm' bickers all the time, which to me is just plain rudeness and spoiltness. I was generally really taken aback and disgusted when I first saw her with this kinda behaviour. But suprisingly enough, her Dad seems to quite enjoy their sizzling 'style' of conversation. Well, what do you know...Maybe it's time that we get a paradime shift.
Maybe it's just me who find this approach to conversation appauling. But when is telling your Dad to shut up in the public an acceptable behaviour?

Here is a webpage about the 12 girls band.
http://www1.chinadaily.com.cn/en/doc/2003-08/13/content_254528.htm

Resurrecting this thread here, because I'd like to read more responses from everyone, and I'd like to contribute. These are what I dislike:

* Haydn piano sonatas
* Mozart piano sonatas (except the F major, K. 332, I think. That was the first real piano sonata I learned in its entirety, as a piano student)
* pretty much anything by Weber (especially the overture to Oberon, eww)
* Schubert's "Great" symphony (seems to go on and on to me)
* Tchaikovsky's 4th symphony (though I do like the 5th and the 'Pathetique'), and the piano concerto #1
* Mussorgsky's "Night on Bald Mountain"
* some of the Rachmaninoff preludes (besides the famous ones in c# minor and g minor, of course)
* Schoenberg's "Pierrot Lunaire". I also cannot stand any piece that employs Sprichstimme. It just sounds awful to my ears.
* any piece of twelve-tone music (I find the system limiting and pointless), and anything that's atonal, for that matter
* Bartok's string quartets

I used to not be a big fan of Brahms, but since I read a biography and listened to some CD's, I've found myself warming up to his music.

As to some of the other responses, I can't comment, because I'm not familar with them. I'll embarrass myself and list some of the things I don't know, or have never heard:

* Bach's Christmas oratorio
* Schubert sonatas
* Bruckner's symphonies
* most of Schumann's piano music (except for some pieces in the "Album for the Young," and "Carneval")
* anything by Cesar Franck
* pretty much anything by Mahler
* most stuff from the 20th century and beyond (Glass, Reich, Crumb, Ives, Hanson, Schuman, etc.)


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