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#604506 - 02/05/07 12:14 PM Re: Digital is the way forward?
twitchy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/18/04
Posts: 60
Loc: London
Hmm, the Binaural stuff in that link still doesn't explain difference between front and back, it just refers to azimuth as if 45 degrees would be different to 315 degrees. And if cocking your head comes into it how does surround sound work in headphones?

Anyway, I don't want to hog this thread with my inane questions. Thanks for the link - very interesting.

I'm off to buy a casio with big headphones.

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#604507 - 02/05/07 04:15 PM Re: Digital is the way forward?
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7368
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
tomasino

 Quote:
a professional photographer, I can tell you that many of us thought that digital imaging would never replace film. But, as a practical matter, and even though Kodak film is available in a few drugstores, digital has replaced film.
I think your analogy is flawed. Clavinos are to pianos what photography is to painting. Most homes still have paintings hung if they can possibly afford it.

 Quote:
So I think there will be some residual resistance to digital, even if they are superior to acoustics.
In what universe?

Seriously, we're talking apples and oranges here. The next step in improving the clavino will be to put a real renner action in it. Then it will have "true" piano touch. Then they could manufacturer it with 176 speakers, one for each string. The the sound would be broader and fuller. Then they could build in an automatic detuning device, so your clavino would go out of tune after a few weeks. They could also put in cross feed-back loops so that each tone generator could sense what other tones are being played and change pitch in sympathy.

By the time you make all these technical advances, you could just go out an buy a piano - at half the price
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

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#604508 - 02/06/07 12:20 AM Re: Digital is the way forward?
DragonPianoPlayer Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/12/06
Posts: 2368
Loc: Denver, CO
John,

Sorry to disagree with you, but your analogy is also flawed.

Painting and photography are not at all related in a similar manner to digital and acoustic pianos. Owning a painting or photograph is totally different from creating music on a digital or acoustic piano. Very few households with paintings have someone in them who is capable of creating that painting, whereas many can create photographs or create music on either an acoustic or digital piano.

Owning a painting is more akin to owning a grand piano solely as a piece of furniture.

Rich
_________________________

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#604509 - 02/06/07 12:49 PM Re: Digital is the way forward?
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7368
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
Rich, No analogy is perfect, but here's why I think it's pretty good:

Both piano and clavinova's create sounds - one through direct action of the player, the other using non-mechanical means (true, the player tells each instrument what sounds to play via a keyboard but that's where the similarity ends).

In a painting, the artist must conceive what he wants in his mind, then have the technical skills to put it on paper. In photography, the artist sees something interesting, beautiful, etc., then uses a mechanical device to capture it and place it on paper.

While art can be created in all four, people tend to prefer acoustical to electrical sounds and they tend to prefer oils and acrylics to silver halides and ink drops.

John
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

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#604510 - 02/06/07 02:10 PM Re: Digital is the way forward?
mwf Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/11/06
Posts: 419
Loc: Peterborough, England
 Quote:
Originally posted by John v.d.Brook:


Both piano and clavinova's create sounds - one through direct action of the player, the other using non-mechanical means (true, the player tells each instrument what sounds to play via a keyboard but that's where the similarity ends).

In a painting, the artist must conceive what he wants in his mind, then have the technical skills to put it on paper. In photography, the artist sees something interesting, beautiful, etc., then uses a mechanical device to capture it and place it on paper.

John [/b]
You play both digital and acoustic pianos through direct action of the player, well I do anyway. That may in your books be where the similarity ends, but that just about sums up playing the piano, oh I forgot theres the fantastical tone manipulation phenomenon you and other expert players know and can use at will that only exists on frigging acoustical pianos, even the worst poorly maintained out of tune uneven pile of junk is better than a digital piano.

You need technical shills to play a digital piano just like an acoustic. You still have to be artistic when playing a digital piano, theres alot you can do on a DP, especially now they have complex string resonance sampling and tonal/timbre changes, you know the ones you can control. Playing the piano for me is both a pleasant and uplifting experience on any type of keyboard instrument, obviously you cannot get past you own stubborness and elitism, you are infact perhaps the most anti-digital member on these forums, you sound as if you hate the things,
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#604511 - 03/05/07 03:03 PM Re: Digital is the way forward?
Van Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 1215
Loc: S. California
 Quote:
Originally posted by John v.d.Brook:

By the time you make all these technical advances, you could just go out an buy a piano - at half the price [/b]
In the real world, the price of a digital today is an order of magnitude below that of an acoustic and this gap is just going to get worse with time. It doesn't take much research to see how far the digital's come in just the last 5 years (a mere eye blink when you think about it), the feature sets keeps growing and getting better and the price keeps falling (we're talking about half the price for a doubling or tripling in performance/features in just 5 years, compare this to the steady price inflation of acoustics for basically the same machine)...It's the economics that will ultimately kill off the acoustic, if it hasn't already.

I can still remember learning to type on IBM electric typewriters (anyone here remember those?), don't see them anymore although I'm sure many typists still prefer their crisper touch and feel. Unfortunately for the piano, it's one of the more 'mechanical' instruments and really lends itself to digitalization.

Acoustic guitars will probably be around forever, precisely for the reason you've mentioned (they are just so inexpensive to produce), but I just don't see this for the 800lb piano gorilla, the price/performance differences are just too vast. I'm not talking here about the piano as a luxury or status item, but just as a pure music making instrument.

Another thing to think about is the increasing connectivity between the digitals and computers (and how important digital connectivity/interaction and the internet's become, e.g., the ability to drive software synthesizers or the new software pianos such as Ivory...or this very discussion on 'piano' forum), to the point where it increasingly feels as though the digital piano is just another computer peripheral and just another means for communication. When viewed in this light, perhaps the better analogy would be that by the time you add in all the features you want to an acoustic piano (recording, midi, connectivity, voices etc.), you end up with a digital keyboard.
_________________________

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#604512 - 03/07/07 04:08 PM Re: Digital is the way forward?
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7368
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
In the real world, the price of a digital today is an order of magnitude below that of an acoustic and this gap is just going to get worse with time.[/b] Hummm, the Clavinova CLP 280, which is one of the most piano like of the series, is $4,800. A Yamaha upright is $200 more. Sounds like an order of magnitude to me.
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

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