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#605083 - 05/31/04 12:07 PM Re: Richard Clayderman
Hans Hitmachine Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/14/04
Posts: 184
Loc: Netherlands
The Punk can say whatever he wants. It doesn't matter if he's a beginner or not. This whole "can you do it better argument" is of no value at all. I can't make wine, but I know what a good one tastes like.

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#605084 - 05/31/04 12:45 PM Re: Richard Clayderman
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
It's important however,that one not make erroneous assumptions about another's level of competence, intelligence or ability to pass judgement, and publicly pronounce them. Those assumptions skirt the boundaries of politeness if nothing else.
_________________________
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, ├Ľun (apple in Estonian)

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#605085 - 05/31/04 01:14 PM Re: Richard Clayderman
Derick Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/03/02
Posts: 3290
Loc: New York
I first heard of Richard Clayderman when living in Germany. I find his music to be pleasant and very easy to listen to; primarily as background music. It's perfect "restaurant music".

That said, if you *really* listen to some of his arrangements, they are quite clever and unlike any I've heard before. I especially like his arrangement of "Over the Rainbow". An arrangement I've never been able to reproduce and actually broke down and tried to buy it. Unfortunately, I cannot find it anywhere.

Derick
_________________________
Don't worry about people stealing your ideas. If your ideas are any good, you'll have to ram them down people's throats.

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#605086 - 05/31/04 01:32 PM Re: Richard Clayderman
ycul Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/23/04
Posts: 1402
Loc: U.K.
I'd like to echo Hans. You don't have to know anything about the golden ratio or the Fibonacci series to appreciate the beautiful sound of a Stradivarius or a whole host of other wonderful things in the world around us.
_________________________
How now, brown cow.

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#605087 - 05/31/04 01:44 PM Re: Richard Clayderman
F.e.l.i. Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 108
Loc: A box
I dont mind Clayderman!:-) He can live..
*puts away rifle!*

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#605088 - 05/31/04 02:39 PM Re: Richard Clayderman
Hans Hitmachine Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/14/04
Posts: 184
Loc: Netherlands
"It's important however,that one not make erroneous assumptions about another's level of competence, intelligence or ability to pass judgement, and publicly pronounce them. Those assumptions skirt the boundaries of politeness if nothing else".

Apple, first of all, I really like the way you choose your words.
But Clayderman decided to be a public figure. He chose to be loved and hated.
He's not the cute little pianoplayer next door.
I don't tell my little causin he's a horrible guitar player because there may be people with more talent.
All "we" do is saying: "His fame is not justified. There are better artists".
Statements like these go along with a certain amount of "rudeness".
But if your name is Richard Clayerman, you're definately asking for it and you are prepared for it as well.

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#605089 - 05/31/04 07:13 PM Re: Richard Clayderman
TheloniousPunk Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/04/03
Posts: 824
Loc: US
My money is on Pianoloverus being either a cop or a schoolteacher. That domineering attitude is might familiar.

My being an adult does not make me knowledgeable about music. However, it means I am entitled to more respect than I got from you. You are rude, pushy, and arrogant. I deserved better.

Thanks to all who acknowledged that.

As for Liberace, he was an idiot. He took a one-in-a-million gift and flushed it down the toilet because he was greedy and shallow. He could have made a contribution to the arts, but instead he dressed in green feathers and played "Tico Tico" for lonely, deluded women in stretch pants.

On top of that, he sued two newspapers for correctly implying that he was gay, and he took their money when he won, knowing he was wrong. Talented or not, he was a loathsome person.

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#605090 - 05/31/04 08:09 PM Re: Richard Clayderman
Shrek Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/18/04
Posts: 205
 Quote:
Originally posted by TheloniousPunk:
He could have made a contribution to the arts, but instead he dressed in green feathers and played "Tico Tico" for lonely, deluded women in stretch pants.[/b]
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!

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#605091 - 06/01/04 08:14 PM Re: Richard Clayderman
Gflat Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/20/03
Posts: 114
Loc: Wiltshire . UK
 Quote:
Originally posted by TheloniousPunk:

As for Liberace, he was an idiot. He took a one-in-a-million gift and flushed it down the toilet because he was greedy and shallow. He could have made a contribution to the arts, but instead he dressed in green feathers and played "Tico Tico" for lonely, deluded women in stretch pants.
[/b]
"As for Liberace, he was an idiot"

Mmm....

There is one thing that maybe you should all add in these posts in respect of both Liberace and Clayderman and that is

'IMO'

Does'nt hurt to say it and it would at least validate it to your specific opinions.

To say the above is a little foolish imo as you are missing something about Liberace . His one in a million 'gift' as you put it was being , arguably, a comic entertainer who used the piano as his sidekick. He was loved by millions and certainly found his niche . I don't think he'd agree that he 'flushed his gift down the toilet'

Ask the tens of thousands that queued up to pay him his millions

Check out his fame and fortune to see if he felt he enjoyed his life to the full. I suspect you will find he did

In respect of his pianism from what I have heard ( which to be honest is not a lot) he could more than hold his own in well known virtuosic pieces
so although he was no Ashkenazy or Brendel he certainly had a quality secure technique ( If any one reading this knows of any more about him then maybe it would be informative to find out a bit more )

Clayderman I know little of and have to say I find his music difficult to listen to BUT again he can certainly play a bit and for both men one has to respect that fact alone.

One thing both men had /have is immense balls ( not that I have seen them ! \:D ) to carve out a career in such a competitive world playing a musical instrument is not easy and again I suspect that both men although not at the very top of their tree instrumentally must have had some agonies to ebndure wholst they were strugglers early on.

What does happen to all the players who are not quite on the top tier? Many give it up - many settle for a different life . Not these two - they went for something different and although maybe not to the purists liking you cannot argue they have been incredibly successful and deserve full respect from us 'other' pianists

Why should Liberace have made a "contribution to the arts" when he maybe saw his talents could take him in a much more lucrative and unique path?

I'd argue he did make a contribution as such.

I think earlier in this thread I saw that Clayderman had inspired someone to learn the instrument .....that's no bad thing is it so he can't be that much of a fool can he ?
_________________________
" You want to play the what !?!"

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#605092 - 06/01/04 08:28 PM Re: Richard Clayderman
Gflat Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/20/03
Posts: 114
Loc: Wiltshire . UK
Well did not take too long :

'Liberace was an international superstar dating back to the early 1950s. He averaged $5 million a year in income for more than 35 years. The 1978 Guinness Book of World Records identified Liberace as the world's highest paid musician.'

'He was born Wladziu Valentino Liberace in a Milwaukee suburb in 1919 to poor parents. He was classically trained on the piano as a youth and made his concert debut as a soloist at age 11. As a teenager during the depression, he played piano in speakeasies to make money for his family.'

In 1940, Liberace moved to New York and scrounged for small-time nightclub gigs. His charm and piano playing paid off, and within seven years he was touring the hotel clubs. Liberace's story might have fizzled right there, but he got in early on two gold mines--Las Vegas and TV.

In the late 1940s he began playing extended runs in Las Vegas, which was just becoming an entertainment and gambling center. He would appear at the casinos in Vegas regularly for the rest of his life. And as Vegas grew, so did Liberace's fame and his paychecks.'

So, clearly he could play and obviously was a gifted young prodigy

Here' some more pretty funny too

'Liberace's musical repertoire included a unique mix of classical, boogie woogie, movie themes, cocktail jazz, and sentimental ballads. He knew thousands of songs and could play almost any request from the audience.

He freely edited long classical pieces down to four to six minutes. "I took out the boring parts," he quipped. "I know just how many notes my audience will stand for. If there's any time left over, I fill in with a lot of runs up and down the scale."

This approach enraged serious music critics, who were mostly male. They wrote vicious reviews of Liberace's music, particularly in the beginning of his career.

For instance, in 1956 a British tabloid called Liberace a "deadly, winking, sniggering, snuggling, chromium-plated, scent-impregnated, luminous, quivering, giggling, fruit-flavored, mincing, ice-covered heap of mother love." In case his position wasn't perfectly clear, the writer concluded that Liberace was "the biggest sentimental vomit of all time."

Liberace's pat response was, "I cried all the way to the bank." (However, Liberace did take that British tabloid and its writer to court for slander, where he won a modest settlement.)

By the end of his career, the critics realized that criticizing Liberace was a fruitless endeavor. The women loved him anyway, and Liberace just didn't care. He was too busy raking in the dough.

He also amended his response the criticism with this zinger: "Remember that bank I used to cry all the way to?" (Pause, smile, wink.) "I bought it." '

All from

http://www.missioncreep.com/mw/liberace.html

No mug was old 'Libbers' \:D
_________________________
" You want to play the what !?!"

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#605093 - 06/02/04 04:35 AM Re: Richard Clayderman
Hans Hitmachine Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/14/04
Posts: 184
Loc: Netherlands
Allright, he made a lot of money. Is that a reason to respect his playing?
Not really i.m.o.
He may haven been a funny chap, but he wasn't that brilliant.
"I'm too sexy for my car, too sexy by far", that was a funny song too and I bet they made loads of money from it as well, but was it really that good?
Remeber: Quality and succes don't always go together.
You classical guys should know.

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#605094 - 06/02/04 05:08 AM Re: Richard Clayderman
Gflat Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/20/03
Posts: 114
Loc: Wiltshire . UK
For me my respect toward him is not based on his bank balance.

Again you're missing it

"quality" as defined by who ? by you ? by a group who feel only 'lofty' Beethovenesque depths are relevant in music.!?!

Have you ever tried to put a show together? Of any description ?

To be frank, and I come from experience, sitting on stage playing selctive piano pieces from the great composers demands a very different more understated role than giving a 'full on' in your face personality up front performance and having to make your audience laugh whilst you play as well

Have you ever tried to get up and make a thousand people laugh on stage on live TV and play piano to concert standard ? Mmm

It could be argued that Liberace's performance required a bit more courage than the former.

Performing classical music often allows the performer to hide behind his/her instrument.

Don't get me wrong I know which I prefer and I am not losing sight of the ecstacy / achievement one can attain in performing these wonderful works we do but for people to undermine what Liberace ( add Victor Borge and Les Dawson - although not a good a player as Liberace - to that ) did is churlish.

I'm a "classical player" as you put it, and although it's not actually my cup of tea, he has the utmost respect from me as a performer and that's going nowhere near his bank balance -although I'd like to \:D
_________________________
" You want to play the what !?!"

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#605095 - 06/02/04 05:39 AM Re: Richard Clayderman
Ted2 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/04/02
Posts: 790
Loc: Auckland, New Zealand
I find myself in agreement with Pianoloverus. Liberace, Victor Borge, Gladys Mills, Russ Conway, Richard Clayderman.... We don't necessarily want to emulate them, even like their playing, but they made a lot of people happy with their music, which is probably more than I shall ever do. Let's be tolerant and broadminded.
_________________________
"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law" - Aleister Crowley

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#605096 - 06/02/04 09:07 AM Re: Richard Clayderman
Hans Hitmachine Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/14/04
Posts: 184
Loc: Netherlands
"he has the utmost respect from me as a performer"

I agree (liberace, not Claydermann, he's not a good performer).

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#605097 - 06/02/04 02:16 PM Re: Richard Clayderman
ycul Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/23/04
Posts: 1402
Loc: U.K.
Well done Horace.
_________________________
How now, brown cow.

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#605098 - 06/02/04 02:43 PM Re: Richard Clayderman
Horace Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/28/04
Posts: 505
 Quote:
Well done, Horace
Really wasn't my intent to troll. I was and still am honestly curious about mr Clayderman's capacity to play more technically demanding pieces. It's unfortunate that I couldn't ask the question without the propriety police descending and making sure that there is no disrespect being targeted at such a famous and successful performer as Clayderman.

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#605099 - 06/02/04 06:57 PM Re: Richard Clayderman
jlin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/05/04
Posts: 24
Loc: Orange County, CA
First association when someone mentioned Clayderman?
*tinkle tinkle tinkle*

Maybe it's all the horrors of when I was around 6-8 yrs old and my mom (and her church lady friends) comes home with a Clayderman book, newly translated with mandarin text, and goes "play this! it sounds so nice! My friends would love it!"

For two years, I heard "play the music box song" or whatever the heck that was named, and some of the other "look I make a big seventh chord a lot with my left hand" pieces I played to death with a grimace when my mom's friends would clap with glee...

I think I burned that book. He may compose, but in my opinion, he's no Beethoven. I actually *gasp!* prefer Yanni to him!

Btw, I didn't know this guy still produces stuff. Does he still have blow-dried hair? I remember thinking as a kid that his hair looked like that on the Ken doll nobody wanted to buy.

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#605100 - 06/02/04 06:58 PM Re: Richard Clayderman
jlin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/05/04
Posts: 24
Loc: Orange County, CA
Btw, who doesn't like Victor Borge? He makes me laugh. Audible punctuation, was it called? That's how I learned grammar and parsing sentences in 7th grade.

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#605101 - 06/02/04 07:14 PM Re: Richard Clayderman
Shrek Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/18/04
Posts: 205
I think Victor Borge is brilliant! His "Inflationary Language" is one of my favorite comedy acts, and I was impressed by his improvising "Happy Birthday" into a number of well-known classical pieces.

Unforunately, his comedic personality seemed to draw attention away from the fact that he was actually a very competent pianist. He had a very nice touch, as well as very good musical sense, and technique that could put most contemporary pianists to shame.

***NOTE: AS A RULE, ALL MY STATEMENTS ARE PREFIXED WITH "IMO"***

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#605102 - 06/02/04 08:30 PM Re: Richard Clayderman
Diarmuid2 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/24/02
Posts: 871
Loc: London
Gflat, I'm with you entirely.

To draw an analogy, and a slightly polarized one just to make a point, no I'm not an expert on wine, and yes I think I can tell a good one from a bad one, but I wouldn't have the temerity to walk into a room of experts and announce my conclusions based one such cursory knowledge.

I think everyone is entitled to their opinions, but when I'm in an arena where I'm aware that my knowledge is limited, I tend to shut up rather than blurt out half baked opinions.

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#605103 - 06/02/04 08:59 PM Re: Richard Clayderman
Shrek Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/18/04
Posts: 205
 Quote:
Originally posted by Diarmuid2:
Gflat, I'm with you entirely.

To draw an analogy, and a slightly polarized one just to make a point, no I'm not an expert on wine, and yes I think I can tell a good one from a bad one, but I wouldn't have the temerity to walk into a room of experts and announce my conclusions based one such cursory knowledge.

I think everyone is entitled to their opinions, but when I'm in an arena where I'm aware that my knowledge is limited, I tend to shut up rather than blurt out half baked opinions. [/b]
I disagree. I think you can say what you want, when you want..... then hide.

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#605104 - 06/02/04 10:11 PM Re: Richard Clayderman
Diarmuid2 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/24/02
Posts: 871
Loc: London
Hehe, fair enough! God knows I've done that more times than I care to remember \:\)

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#605105 - 06/03/04 08:29 AM Re: Richard Clayderman
Spock Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/22/04
Posts: 93


If you think that guy can have musical credibilty, there's something very wrong with you.

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#605106 - 06/03/04 11:03 AM Re: Richard Clayderman
ycul Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/23/04
Posts: 1402
Loc: U.K.
_________________________
How now, brown cow.

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#605107 - 06/03/04 10:28 PM Re: Richard Clayderman
Diarmuid2 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/24/02
Posts: 871
Loc: London
He can and he does. Music should not not be seen through such blinkers, there is plenty of room for flair, glitter and sentimentality.

If people could only have a few drinks and be honest with themselves...

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#605108 - 06/04/04 04:28 AM Re: Richard Clayderman
snap_apple Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/21/03
Posts: 710
this conversation sucks

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#605109 - 06/04/04 05:37 AM Re: Richard Clayderman
Deus ex Pianoforte Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/28/04
Posts: 346
Loc: California
In my eyes, Liberace was not a true musician. He was an entertainer first and foremost that happened to know how to play the piano. In the world of pure showmanship and flash, he was great. But you could never classify him as a bonafide concert pianist. Maybe he could have been, but that just wasn't the route he took in life. My point is that we all have something we're good at, and if we don't follow our hearts and go with what we believe in...we'd just spend our lives not being true to ourselves. Personally, I think that we shouldn't criticize someone for living their own dreams...everyone is different, and everyone is entitled to their own opinions and how to live their own life.

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#605110 - 06/04/04 06:45 AM Re: Richard Clayderman
Diva Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 2
Loc: UK
It's all very well to go on about Liberace and Clayderman but you've all forgotten that "King of Cheese" Bobby Crush. Now there was a "talent".

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#605111 - 06/07/04 12:38 PM Re: Richard Clayderman
Ollie Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/14/01
Posts: 78
Since we are discussing modern popular pianists, what do we think of Dino? IMO, his technique is formidable. Personally I found Victor Borge a little irritating since as soon as I would settle down to enjoy his playing he would interrupt it with a comic interlude.

Ollie

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#1547951 - 10/31/10 08:01 PM Re: Richard Clayderman [Re: Horace]
raskdog Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/25/10
Posts: 44
Loc: Melbourne Australia
I'm not a huge Clayderman fan but I do love Lady Di. I have to agree that it is fairly easy music to play. I am doing Lady Di for my Grade 6 exam. I've only been playing it for a couple of weeks and already feel that I am getting s stranglehold on it, bar a couple of sections. Whether it is easy or not though, doesn't detract from it being a great piece of music. Why does great music have to be hard to play?

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