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#605053 - 05/27/04 11:18 PM Richard Clayderman
Horace Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/28/04
Posts: 505
I didn't know who he was, and ordered a DVD of his playing from Netflix. I didn't enjoy the music very much.

According to his website, he "won a conservatory competition" at age 16, or something. Anyway, he was playing entirely easy music, stuff that an average player with several years experience can play (presumably). What's his deal, is he technically deficient or does he intentionally play simpler pieces so as not to challenge his audience, or what? He was even playing a simplified version of the slow Moonlight sonata movement, which is pretty easy in its original version. Watching him play, his body language was not that of someone who's in full control of the piano. Hard to explain, but he was watching his hands in a certain way, it didn't seem as effortless as any technically skilled pianist I've seen play.

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#605054 - 05/27/04 11:33 PM Re: Richard Clayderman
Axtremus Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/03
Posts: 6174
 Quote:
What's his deal, is he technically deficient or does he intentionally play simpler pieces so as not to challenge his audience, or what?
He carved out a niche that he can make good money off of playing piano. He wrote/orchestrated a lot of the music he plays. So at least he is original. When you really think about it, even if you consider his pieces easy, not too many pianists have both the talent and the temperament to do that, and even fewer have the business sense to actually make money doing that. ;\)
_________________________
www.PianoRecital.org -- my piano recordings

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#605055 - 05/27/04 11:42 PM Re: Richard Clayderman
TheloniousPunk Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/04/03
Posts: 821
Loc: US
I remember this guy from the 80's. In '84, I was surprised to see a bunch of Germans listening to him on a kibbutz, because I had seen his cheesy commercials in the US and I had assumed he was a no-name goof trying to make a quick buck.

I just checked out some samples on Amazon, and my take is that he's really awful. He makes pleasant, relaxing sounds, but you can barely hear the piano for the synths and drums, and it sounds like all he's doing is binking along with two-note chords.

I wouldn't even compare him to Liberace, who was a geek, but a geek who could play a little.

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#605056 - 05/27/04 11:45 PM Re: Richard Clayderman
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
the Yanni of France.
_________________________
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)

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#605057 - 05/27/04 11:45 PM Re: Richard Clayderman
Horace Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/28/04
Posts: 505
That's true. I didn't mean to sound disrespectful of him; I'm mostly just curious if he plays easy stuff by choice or by necessity. I kept waiting for him to break out something even faintly virtuosic, but he never did. I must admit that I was put off by the fact that he was playing pieces written for solo piano that were pared down in difficulty and then set against the backdrop of an orchestra to make up for it. To my mind, that's not what a "pianist" does, yet he sells himself as a pianist.

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#605058 - 05/28/04 12:00 AM Re: Richard Clayderman
Axtremus Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/03
Posts: 6174
 Quote:
TP wrote: " ... he's really awful. He makes pleasant, relaxing sounds ..."
Pleasant and relaxing, yet awful! ;\) \:D
(Yeah, I know what you mean.)

A pianist[/b] is by definition a person who plays the piano. Clayderman is a legitimate pianist.

I vaguely remember he was once billed as the "Prince of Piano." That, I thought was too much.
_________________________
www.PianoRecital.org -- my piano recordings

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#605059 - 05/28/04 12:26 AM Re: Richard Clayderman
Shrek Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/18/04
Posts: 205
Never heard of this guy, but I'd just like to express my.... gratitude to all these pianists who put their poorly played recordings in every grocery store they can in a desperate attempt to make a hit. I once bought a CD from my local Safeway, done by some guy I had never heard of, and almost had an aneurism. He played the Moonlight Sonata (first movement, of course), and accidentaly went to E minor again after the return of the main theme (he was supposed to stay in E major), making the piece about 10 minutes long. Then he plays Mozart's Sonata K 331 in A major, and skips the last few variations (which happen to be my favorite). Thanks for wasting my time and money, communist.

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#605060 - 05/28/04 12:56 AM Re: Richard Clayderman
Balparda Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/12/04
Posts: 48
Loc: Colombia
I guess it's a matter of what you like from Piano. I, personally got into piano only because of Clayderman; I guess I don't have quite enough knowledge about piano technique as to say if he plays well or not, but do can tell you I love the pieces he plays.

I just started playing piano like 2-3 months ago, but have already heard a bunch of different pieces on recording, ranging from the easiest Bartok miniature to those Super Hiper Mega Virtuoso Freak songs. And, to tell you the truth, most of the times I prefer to hear the easier ones.

It's the same as when I was into electric guitar. I had cd's by both Satriani and Vai. Vai plays freaking virtuosic music, while Satriani plays some kinda slow, easy songs. After all this time, I ended up with 4 cd's by Satriani, 1 by Vai.

As I said, it's just a matter of what you like; so I wouldn't say Clayderman plays 'easy' songs coz he's not capable of playing anything harder. I bet he can play a bunch of those 1000-notes-a-second songs, but he sticks with slow, melodic, rather simple pieces, just like me.

Just my $0.02 ;\)

-John
_________________________
Amy Lee is hot...

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#605061 - 05/28/04 01:11 AM Re: Richard Clayderman
Horace Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/28/04
Posts: 505
 Quote:
A pianist is by definition a person who plays the piano. Clayderman is a legitimate pianist.
Well, you take my meaning, I'm sure. This did have some minor real-world consequences, in that I wasted a position on my Netflix queue for his DVD, under the assumption that he was a world class pianist, as the DVD said. Yes, I know, he can be accurately termed that. But not in quite the same way as the other pianist who's DVDs I've rented, such as Gould, Kissin, and Kempff.

Anyway, my intent wasn't to bash him. I'm really just curious whether he's capable of playing more "virtuosic" pieces. I can imagine that he might simplify and orchestrate his music not to make it easier to play, but to make it more marketable.

 Quote:
I guess it's a matter of what you like from Piano. I, personally got into piano only because of Clayderman; I guess I don't have quite enough knowledge about piano technique as to say if he plays well or not, but do can tell you I love the pieces he plays.
It's very nice music, for what it is. My problem was that I was expecting something else from the DVD. There's only so much shin-deep stage fog and soulful gazes into the camera that I can stand.

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#605062 - 05/28/04 02:35 AM Re: Richard Clayderman
Hans Hitmachine Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/14/04
Posts: 184
Loc: Netherlands
Have you ever been to a hotel where you pay let's say min. 500$ for a room? Well, just try. Once you get in lift you hear.....Claydermann. You walk the corridor, you hear claydermann, you get in your room and put off Claydermann, you go down to the gala room to have dinner and there's a Claydermann revival band playing, you go back to your room and Claydermann seems to sleep next door, the suit with the baby Steinway...

Anyway. That's what his music is about. Easy listening. Some pling-ploing, Bridge over troubled water on digital panflute.
But it sells! Restaurants, Hotels and rich people with absolutely NO musicality buy it. Not to listen to, but to listen through.

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#605063 - 05/28/04 07:43 AM Re: Richard Clayderman
Diarmuid2 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/24/02
Posts: 871
Loc: London
To paraphrase Liberace, he's crying all the way to the bank ;\)

Yes it's cheesy. I mean really, truely, awful bilge.....but if I'm honest I'd take the career and run!

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#605064 - 05/28/04 08:05 AM Re: Richard Clayderman
AndrewG Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 2506
Loc: Denver, Colorado
Yes he was classically trained. He is some sort of today's Liberace, making tons of money. Many young piano students are tinkering his 'songs' on their pianos. Parents like the youngsters achievments by playing Clayderman. What more do you want?

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#605065 - 05/28/04 09:13 AM Re: Richard Clayderman
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
Actually I have a book of his 'songs', and transcriptions, mostly written by French movie score writers. They are sickenly saccharine, but I have had more requests this song "Lady Di (or Diana)". His transcriptions are sweet and spare, and you know..... to each his own.
_________________________
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)

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#605066 - 05/28/04 10:51 AM Re: Richard Clayderman
TheloniousPunk Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/04/03
Posts: 821
Loc: US
I checked out some Liberace samples after comparing him to this Clayderman character. He did a respectable job with Liszt. I think Clayderman's head would explode if he tried to play Liszt.

I was mortified to see that Liberace played Chopin nocturne "medleys."

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#605067 - 05/29/04 12:03 AM Re: Richard Clayderman
Shrek Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/18/04
Posts: 205
I listen to Clayderman for 20 minutes every day before I practice. It makes me feel better about myself .

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#605068 - 05/30/04 12:29 AM Re: Richard Clayderman
Jeanne W Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/28/04
Posts: 1240
Loc: New England
Poor Mr. Clayderman. Oooh, some of us are being pretty brutal here! He's not a favorite of mine, but I give him credit for what he has accomplished.

Who is your favorite pianist/composer? Mine is Kostia - has anyone here heard his music? He is awesome but unfortunately not well known. He has 2 cd's of his own piano compositions (St. Petersburg Suite and the other is called 10 Pebbles). You can hear clips from his cd's on amazon.com. (I hope the link I'm patching below works.) His cd's are solo piano.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/det...=music&n=507846

Also Keiko Matsui has one solo piano cd. Most of her other cds are real new age-y with lots of accompaniment - nice, but I prefer solo piano. Keiko has one wonderful wonderful cd that is solo piano called (surprisingly enough) "Piano".

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B...0414232-2541422

I wonder if anyone else here will care for these pianists music??? Please let me know!!!

Jeanne W
_________________________
Music is about the heart and so should a piano be about the heart. - Pique

1920 Steinway A3
My Piano Delivery Thread:
http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/8776.html#000000

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#605069 - 05/30/04 12:51 AM Re: Richard Clayderman
Jeanne W Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/28/04
Posts: 1240
Loc: New England
Me again.

I think the clips on Amazon.com of Kostia's music don't go on along enough to demonstrate the full breadth of his talent and his compositions. But I think you'll be able to tell this is not "background music"!?

Here's the link to his other cd on amazon.com called 10 Pebbles. On the liner notes, Kostia remarks the piano he is playing on this cd is one of the best pianos he's ever had the opportunity to play (it's a Steinway and sounds breathtakingly beautiful to me.)

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/det...=glance&s=music

Jeanne W

P.S. It's 12:50 a.m. What am I doing posing at this time? I'm turning into a Pianoworld junkie.
_________________________
Music is about the heart and so should a piano be about the heart. - Pique

1920 Steinway A3
My Piano Delivery Thread:
http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/8776.html#000000

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#605070 - 05/30/04 04:39 AM Re: Richard Clayderman
ramel joven anchiboy Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 4
Loc: PHil
Hi Jeanne do you know where can I find free music sheet download for the song "Holding all my love for you" by Julianna Raye composed by Michael Kamen for the movie "Open Range" by Kevin Costner. Its a beautiful song so simple yet very powerful.

Regards Jeanne

Ramel
_________________________
ramel joven anchiboy

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#605071 - 05/30/04 05:02 AM Re: Richard Clayderman
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19268
Loc: New York City
 Quote:
Originally posted by TheloniousPunk:
I wouldn't even compare him to Liberace, who was a geek, but a geek who could play a little. [/b]
Play a little? You don't seem to realize that even from just a technical standpoint Liberace had a technique that less than 1 out of 500(probably a much smaller %) people will ever have.
I'm sure his brand of piano playing doesn't appeal to that many people on this board(and I'm not a big fan either), but as a beginning piano student, I think you should be far less prone to criticize.

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#605072 - 05/30/04 07:40 PM Re: Richard Clayderman
Shrek Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/18/04
Posts: 205
Well said. At first, I thought Liberace was just another one of those pianists who learns a few easy tunes that he can improvise to death, but was surprised to see pieces like cheyecoughski's Piano concerto No.1 in his repertoire. I don't particularily care for his playing, but I'll give him credit; I'd be thankful to become half as famous as he was.

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#605073 - 05/30/04 09:10 PM Re: Richard Clayderman
TheloniousPunk Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/04/03
Posts: 821
Loc: US
Pianoloverus, thanks for the suggestion. I have one for you, too: lighten UP.

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#605074 - 05/30/04 09:15 PM Re: Richard Clayderman
Anonymous
Unregistered


 Quote:
Originally posted by pianoloverus:
 Quote:
Originally posted by TheloniousPunk:
I wouldn't even compare him to Liberace, who was a geek, but a geek who could play a little. [/b]
Play a little? You don't seem to realize that even from just a technical standpoint Liberace had a technique that less than 1 out of 500(probably a much smaller %) people will ever have.
I'm sure his brand of piano playing doesn't appeal to that many people on this board(and I'm not a big fan either), but as a beginning piano student, I think you should be far less prone to criticize. [/b]
And you should be less of an authoritarian brown nose.

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#605075 - 05/30/04 10:03 PM Re: Richard Clayderman
TheloniousPunk Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/04/03
Posts: 821
Loc: US
Seriously, it's like I blasphemed or something.

I say whatever I like about performers. Live with it, because it's not going to change.

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#605076 - 05/31/04 06:51 AM Re: Richard Clayderman
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19268
Loc: New York City
 Quote:
Originally posted by TheloniousPunk:
Seriously, it's like I blasphemed or something.

I say whatever I like about performers. Live with it, because it's not going to change. [/b]
I think you should have more respect for pianists (even Liberace) especially because you are a beginner. Unfortunately, you don't have this respect and will undoubtedly say "whatever you like." Maybe it will change when you understand more about piano playing and music. You have a lot to learn about piano playing, even from Richard Clayderman.

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#605077 - 05/31/04 06:52 AM Re: Richard Clayderman
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19268
Loc: New York City

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#605078 - 05/31/04 07:18 AM Re: Richard Clayderman
elfen Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/10/03
Posts: 114
Loc: UK
I don't want to get into trouble but would like to add a comment on what people seem to forget easily on internet.

I personally believe that it is very important when you criticize (the word is neutral) someone, there should be reasons for it. Perhaps you can say so to someone you know well, and had some prior knowledge about your taste or personality. But I sometimes find it annoying when people call a music/ movie trash simply he/she doesn't like it. You may have perfectly good reason to not like him, then say it and try to convince the others. Whether I agree or not I will repect your opinion. Otherwise it will be an empty echo that no one cares.

Therefore your opinion should to be validated, in an internet forum where different people of different culture and age gather. So you will have to be more careful than when you talk to people who know you offline, because your personality can only be only judged by what you say here. You will find it difficult to be accepted especially the language is extreme.

p.s. personal attack not welcomed

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#605079 - 05/31/04 08:03 AM Re: Richard Clayderman
Jeanne W Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/28/04
Posts: 1240
Loc: New England
Ramel:

I've never heard of that song, "Holding All My Love For You." I went to amazon.com to try to hear it. Rats! There are no sound clips available from the soundtrack cd of the movie "Open Range". I don't know if sheet music is available for the piece of music or not?

If there is no sheet music available and the music isn't that involved - and you just have to have that music to play - you might consider doing the same thing I did with the piano music played by the actress n the Jane Eyre movie (George C. Scott version). I love that piece of music and since no sheet music is available, I wound up tape recording it from the movie on television and then transcribing it myself.

Sorry. Wish I could have helped you out with the sheet music instead.

P.S. The piano music from the Jane Eyre movie is "played" on the piano by the actress in the movie. I searched and searched for the soundtrack of that movie, so I'd have it on lp or cd, but by the time I got around to trying to get the soundtrack-it was out of print. After wanting that soundtrack for the last 25 years, I was overjoyed last year to find it's back in print and bought it. Imagine my chagrin when I found the piano solo was not even on the cd!!!! It's a John Williams movie score and there's tons of orchestral music using the melody, but the main theme song as played solo on piano is not included on the cd.

Moral of the Story: Never assume the piece of music you want that was in a movie is included on the movie sountrack cd -it might not be! Check the liner notes.

Re: my post regarding Kostia. I think maybe that would be better as a new thread. It would be interesting hearing what composers of today other Pianoworld members like. I did a search and did not see that this question had been asked before, so I'm going to bring my post forward.

Jeanne W
_________________________
Music is about the heart and so should a piano be about the heart. - Pique

1920 Steinway A3
My Piano Delivery Thread:
http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/8776.html#000000

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#605080 - 05/31/04 10:20 AM Re: Richard Clayderman
TheloniousPunk Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/04/03
Posts: 821
Loc: US
Pianoloverus, I have absolutely no regard whatsoever for your opinion as to what I should or should not say. You are WAY out of line, trying to tell other people what they are allowed to type.

You need to ask yourself why you feel entitled to tell another adult what he can or cannot say. Who made you moderator? Are you Liberace's mother or something?

I say what I want, and I let you say what you want. I don't tell other people what to say, because I don't share your amazing arrogance.

Your remarks are uncalled-for, inappropriate, insulting, and unfounded. I can't believe you have the audacity to defend them, and I have no intention of heeding your bizarre advice.

Elfen, you sound like Joe McCarthy. Do you really expect me to have my opinions "validated" by some sort of committee? If I think Richard Clayderman's music is bad, I'll say so. That's what this forum is for.

By the way, who validated YOUR opinion?

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#605081 - 05/31/04 11:41 AM Re: Richard Clayderman
Shrek Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/18/04
Posts: 205
TheloniousPunk, sorry, but you're not allowed to have an opinion unless you are more than a "beginner" in music. At least, that's what pianoloverus is implying.

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#605082 - 05/31/04 11:51 AM Re: Richard Clayderman
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19268
Loc: New York City
 Quote:
Originally posted by TheloniousPunk:
You are WAY out of line, trying to tell other people what they are allowed to type.

You need to ask yourself why you feel entitled to tell another adult what he can or cannot say. Who made you moderator?
I say what I want, and I let you say what you want. I don't tell other people what to say, because I don't share your amazing arrogance.

Elfen, you sound like Joe McCarthy. Do you really expect me to have my opinions "validated" by some sort of committee? If I think Richard Clayderman's music is bad, I'll say so. That's what this forum is for.

By the way, who validated YOUR opinion? [/b]
You've missed the point of my posts again. Anyone can say or type whatever they want. But based on your level of pianistic skill and musical understanding at this point I think you should have far more respect for professional pianists and be less prone to criticize them.

Just because you are an adult it doesn't make you knowledgable. It's fine if you you want to post about things like learning to use the pedal for the first time but why you offer opinions about things you know so little about and then try and defiend them so stubbornly.

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#605083 - 05/31/04 12:07 PM Re: Richard Clayderman
Hans Hitmachine Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/14/04
Posts: 184
Loc: Netherlands
The Punk can say whatever he wants. It doesn't matter if he's a beginner or not. This whole "can you do it better argument" is of no value at all. I can't make wine, but I know what a good one tastes like.

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#605084 - 05/31/04 12:45 PM Re: Richard Clayderman
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
It's important however,that one not make erroneous assumptions about another's level of competence, intelligence or ability to pass judgement, and publicly pronounce them. Those assumptions skirt the boundaries of politeness if nothing else.
_________________________
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)

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#605085 - 05/31/04 01:14 PM Re: Richard Clayderman
Derick Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/03/02
Posts: 3290
Loc: New York
I first heard of Richard Clayderman when living in Germany. I find his music to be pleasant and very easy to listen to; primarily as background music. It's perfect "restaurant music".

That said, if you *really* listen to some of his arrangements, they are quite clever and unlike any I've heard before. I especially like his arrangement of "Over the Rainbow". An arrangement I've never been able to reproduce and actually broke down and tried to buy it. Unfortunately, I cannot find it anywhere.

Derick
_________________________
Don't worry about people stealing your ideas. If your ideas are any good, you'll have to ram them down people's throats.

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#605086 - 05/31/04 01:32 PM Re: Richard Clayderman
ycul Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/23/04
Posts: 1402
Loc: U.K.
I'd like to echo Hans. You don't have to know anything about the golden ratio or the Fibonacci series to appreciate the beautiful sound of a Stradivarius or a whole host of other wonderful things in the world around us.
_________________________
How now, brown cow.

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#605087 - 05/31/04 01:44 PM Re: Richard Clayderman
F.e.l.i. Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 108
Loc: A box
I dont mind Clayderman!:-) He can live..
*puts away rifle!*

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#605088 - 05/31/04 02:39 PM Re: Richard Clayderman
Hans Hitmachine Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/14/04
Posts: 184
Loc: Netherlands
"It's important however,that one not make erroneous assumptions about another's level of competence, intelligence or ability to pass judgement, and publicly pronounce them. Those assumptions skirt the boundaries of politeness if nothing else".

Apple, first of all, I really like the way you choose your words.
But Clayderman decided to be a public figure. He chose to be loved and hated.
He's not the cute little pianoplayer next door.
I don't tell my little causin he's a horrible guitar player because there may be people with more talent.
All "we" do is saying: "His fame is not justified. There are better artists".
Statements like these go along with a certain amount of "rudeness".
But if your name is Richard Clayerman, you're definately asking for it and you are prepared for it as well.

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#605089 - 05/31/04 07:13 PM Re: Richard Clayderman
TheloniousPunk Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/04/03
Posts: 821
Loc: US
My money is on Pianoloverus being either a cop or a schoolteacher. That domineering attitude is might familiar.

My being an adult does not make me knowledgeable about music. However, it means I am entitled to more respect than I got from you. You are rude, pushy, and arrogant. I deserved better.

Thanks to all who acknowledged that.

As for Liberace, he was an idiot. He took a one-in-a-million gift and flushed it down the toilet because he was greedy and shallow. He could have made a contribution to the arts, but instead he dressed in green feathers and played "Tico Tico" for lonely, deluded women in stretch pants.

On top of that, he sued two newspapers for correctly implying that he was gay, and he took their money when he won, knowing he was wrong. Talented or not, he was a loathsome person.

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#605090 - 05/31/04 08:09 PM Re: Richard Clayderman
Shrek Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/18/04
Posts: 205
 Quote:
Originally posted by TheloniousPunk:
He could have made a contribution to the arts, but instead he dressed in green feathers and played "Tico Tico" for lonely, deluded women in stretch pants.[/b]
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!

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#605091 - 06/01/04 08:14 PM Re: Richard Clayderman
Gflat Offline
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 Quote:
Originally posted by TheloniousPunk:

As for Liberace, he was an idiot. He took a one-in-a-million gift and flushed it down the toilet because he was greedy and shallow. He could have made a contribution to the arts, but instead he dressed in green feathers and played "Tico Tico" for lonely, deluded women in stretch pants.
[/b]
"As for Liberace, he was an idiot"

Mmm....

There is one thing that maybe you should all add in these posts in respect of both Liberace and Clayderman and that is

'IMO'

Does'nt hurt to say it and it would at least validate it to your specific opinions.

To say the above is a little foolish imo as you are missing something about Liberace . His one in a million 'gift' as you put it was being , arguably, a comic entertainer who used the piano as his sidekick. He was loved by millions and certainly found his niche . I don't think he'd agree that he 'flushed his gift down the toilet'

Ask the tens of thousands that queued up to pay him his millions

Check out his fame and fortune to see if he felt he enjoyed his life to the full. I suspect you will find he did

In respect of his pianism from what I have heard ( which to be honest is not a lot) he could more than hold his own in well known virtuosic pieces
so although he was no Ashkenazy or Brendel he certainly had a quality secure technique ( If any one reading this knows of any more about him then maybe it would be informative to find out a bit more )

Clayderman I know little of and have to say I find his music difficult to listen to BUT again he can certainly play a bit and for both men one has to respect that fact alone.

One thing both men had /have is immense balls ( not that I have seen them ! \:D ) to carve out a career in such a competitive world playing a musical instrument is not easy and again I suspect that both men although not at the very top of their tree instrumentally must have had some agonies to ebndure wholst they were strugglers early on.

What does happen to all the players who are not quite on the top tier? Many give it up - many settle for a different life . Not these two - they went for something different and although maybe not to the purists liking you cannot argue they have been incredibly successful and deserve full respect from us 'other' pianists

Why should Liberace have made a "contribution to the arts" when he maybe saw his talents could take him in a much more lucrative and unique path?

I'd argue he did make a contribution as such.

I think earlier in this thread I saw that Clayderman had inspired someone to learn the instrument .....that's no bad thing is it so he can't be that much of a fool can he ?
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#605092 - 06/01/04 08:28 PM Re: Richard Clayderman
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Well did not take too long :

'Liberace was an international superstar dating back to the early 1950s. He averaged $5 million a year in income for more than 35 years. The 1978 Guinness Book of World Records identified Liberace as the world's highest paid musician.'

'He was born Wladziu Valentino Liberace in a Milwaukee suburb in 1919 to poor parents. He was classically trained on the piano as a youth and made his concert debut as a soloist at age 11. As a teenager during the depression, he played piano in speakeasies to make money for his family.'

In 1940, Liberace moved to New York and scrounged for small-time nightclub gigs. His charm and piano playing paid off, and within seven years he was touring the hotel clubs. Liberace's story might have fizzled right there, but he got in early on two gold mines--Las Vegas and TV.

In the late 1940s he began playing extended runs in Las Vegas, which was just becoming an entertainment and gambling center. He would appear at the casinos in Vegas regularly for the rest of his life. And as Vegas grew, so did Liberace's fame and his paychecks.'

So, clearly he could play and obviously was a gifted young prodigy

Here' some more pretty funny too

'Liberace's musical repertoire included a unique mix of classical, boogie woogie, movie themes, cocktail jazz, and sentimental ballads. He knew thousands of songs and could play almost any request from the audience.

He freely edited long classical pieces down to four to six minutes. "I took out the boring parts," he quipped. "I know just how many notes my audience will stand for. If there's any time left over, I fill in with a lot of runs up and down the scale."

This approach enraged serious music critics, who were mostly male. They wrote vicious reviews of Liberace's music, particularly in the beginning of his career.

For instance, in 1956 a British tabloid called Liberace a "deadly, winking, sniggering, snuggling, chromium-plated, scent-impregnated, luminous, quivering, giggling, fruit-flavored, mincing, ice-covered heap of mother love." In case his position wasn't perfectly clear, the writer concluded that Liberace was "the biggest sentimental vomit of all time."

Liberace's pat response was, "I cried all the way to the bank." (However, Liberace did take that British tabloid and its writer to court for slander, where he won a modest settlement.)

By the end of his career, the critics realized that criticizing Liberace was a fruitless endeavor. The women loved him anyway, and Liberace just didn't care. He was too busy raking in the dough.

He also amended his response the criticism with this zinger: "Remember that bank I used to cry all the way to?" (Pause, smile, wink.) "I bought it." '

All from

http://www.missioncreep.com/mw/liberace.html

No mug was old 'Libbers' \:D
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#605093 - 06/02/04 04:35 AM Re: Richard Clayderman
Hans Hitmachine Offline
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Allright, he made a lot of money. Is that a reason to respect his playing?
Not really i.m.o.
He may haven been a funny chap, but he wasn't that brilliant.
"I'm too sexy for my car, too sexy by far", that was a funny song too and I bet they made loads of money from it as well, but was it really that good?
Remeber: Quality and succes don't always go together.
You classical guys should know.

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#605094 - 06/02/04 05:08 AM Re: Richard Clayderman
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For me my respect toward him is not based on his bank balance.

Again you're missing it

"quality" as defined by who ? by you ? by a group who feel only 'lofty' Beethovenesque depths are relevant in music.!?!

Have you ever tried to put a show together? Of any description ?

To be frank, and I come from experience, sitting on stage playing selctive piano pieces from the great composers demands a very different more understated role than giving a 'full on' in your face personality up front performance and having to make your audience laugh whilst you play as well

Have you ever tried to get up and make a thousand people laugh on stage on live TV and play piano to concert standard ? Mmm

It could be argued that Liberace's performance required a bit more courage than the former.

Performing classical music often allows the performer to hide behind his/her instrument.

Don't get me wrong I know which I prefer and I am not losing sight of the ecstacy / achievement one can attain in performing these wonderful works we do but for people to undermine what Liberace ( add Victor Borge and Les Dawson - although not a good a player as Liberace - to that ) did is churlish.

I'm a "classical player" as you put it, and although it's not actually my cup of tea, he has the utmost respect from me as a performer and that's going nowhere near his bank balance -although I'd like to \:D
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#605095 - 06/02/04 05:39 AM Re: Richard Clayderman
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I find myself in agreement with Pianoloverus. Liberace, Victor Borge, Gladys Mills, Russ Conway, Richard Clayderman.... We don't necessarily want to emulate them, even like their playing, but they made a lot of people happy with their music, which is probably more than I shall ever do. Let's be tolerant and broadminded.
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#605096 - 06/02/04 09:07 AM Re: Richard Clayderman
Hans Hitmachine Offline
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"he has the utmost respect from me as a performer"

I agree (liberace, not Claydermann, he's not a good performer).

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#605097 - 06/02/04 02:16 PM Re: Richard Clayderman
ycul Offline
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Well done Horace.
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#605098 - 06/02/04 02:43 PM Re: Richard Clayderman
Horace Offline
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 Quote:
Well done, Horace
Really wasn't my intent to troll. I was and still am honestly curious about mr Clayderman's capacity to play more technically demanding pieces. It's unfortunate that I couldn't ask the question without the propriety police descending and making sure that there is no disrespect being targeted at such a famous and successful performer as Clayderman.

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#605099 - 06/02/04 06:57 PM Re: Richard Clayderman
jlin Offline
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First association when someone mentioned Clayderman?
*tinkle tinkle tinkle*

Maybe it's all the horrors of when I was around 6-8 yrs old and my mom (and her church lady friends) comes home with a Clayderman book, newly translated with mandarin text, and goes "play this! it sounds so nice! My friends would love it!"

For two years, I heard "play the music box song" or whatever the heck that was named, and some of the other "look I make a big seventh chord a lot with my left hand" pieces I played to death with a grimace when my mom's friends would clap with glee...

I think I burned that book. He may compose, but in my opinion, he's no Beethoven. I actually *gasp!* prefer Yanni to him!

Btw, I didn't know this guy still produces stuff. Does he still have blow-dried hair? I remember thinking as a kid that his hair looked like that on the Ken doll nobody wanted to buy.

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#605100 - 06/02/04 06:58 PM Re: Richard Clayderman
jlin Offline
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Btw, who doesn't like Victor Borge? He makes me laugh. Audible punctuation, was it called? That's how I learned grammar and parsing sentences in 7th grade.

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#605101 - 06/02/04 07:14 PM Re: Richard Clayderman
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I think Victor Borge is brilliant! His "Inflationary Language" is one of my favorite comedy acts, and I was impressed by his improvising "Happy Birthday" into a number of well-known classical pieces.

Unforunately, his comedic personality seemed to draw attention away from the fact that he was actually a very competent pianist. He had a very nice touch, as well as very good musical sense, and technique that could put most contemporary pianists to shame.

***NOTE: AS A RULE, ALL MY STATEMENTS ARE PREFIXED WITH "IMO"***

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#605102 - 06/02/04 08:30 PM Re: Richard Clayderman
Diarmuid2 Offline
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Gflat, I'm with you entirely.

To draw an analogy, and a slightly polarized one just to make a point, no I'm not an expert on wine, and yes I think I can tell a good one from a bad one, but I wouldn't have the temerity to walk into a room of experts and announce my conclusions based one such cursory knowledge.

I think everyone is entitled to their opinions, but when I'm in an arena where I'm aware that my knowledge is limited, I tend to shut up rather than blurt out half baked opinions.

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#605103 - 06/02/04 08:59 PM Re: Richard Clayderman
Shrek Offline
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Registered: 02/18/04
Posts: 205
 Quote:
Originally posted by Diarmuid2:
Gflat, I'm with you entirely.

To draw an analogy, and a slightly polarized one just to make a point, no I'm not an expert on wine, and yes I think I can tell a good one from a bad one, but I wouldn't have the temerity to walk into a room of experts and announce my conclusions based one such cursory knowledge.

I think everyone is entitled to their opinions, but when I'm in an arena where I'm aware that my knowledge is limited, I tend to shut up rather than blurt out half baked opinions. [/b]
I disagree. I think you can say what you want, when you want..... then hide.

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#605104 - 06/02/04 10:11 PM Re: Richard Clayderman
Diarmuid2 Offline
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Hehe, fair enough! God knows I've done that more times than I care to remember \:\)

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#605105 - 06/03/04 08:29 AM Re: Richard Clayderman
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If you think that guy can have musical credibilty, there's something very wrong with you.

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#605106 - 06/03/04 11:03 AM Re: Richard Clayderman
ycul Offline
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#605107 - 06/03/04 10:28 PM Re: Richard Clayderman
Diarmuid2 Offline
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He can and he does. Music should not not be seen through such blinkers, there is plenty of room for flair, glitter and sentimentality.

If people could only have a few drinks and be honest with themselves...

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#605108 - 06/04/04 04:28 AM Re: Richard Clayderman
snap_apple Offline
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this conversation sucks

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#605109 - 06/04/04 05:37 AM Re: Richard Clayderman
Deus ex Pianoforte Offline
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In my eyes, Liberace was not a true musician. He was an entertainer first and foremost that happened to know how to play the piano. In the world of pure showmanship and flash, he was great. But you could never classify him as a bonafide concert pianist. Maybe he could have been, but that just wasn't the route he took in life. My point is that we all have something we're good at, and if we don't follow our hearts and go with what we believe in...we'd just spend our lives not being true to ourselves. Personally, I think that we shouldn't criticize someone for living their own dreams...everyone is different, and everyone is entitled to their own opinions and how to live their own life.

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#605110 - 06/04/04 06:45 AM Re: Richard Clayderman
Diva Offline
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It's all very well to go on about Liberace and Clayderman but you've all forgotten that "King of Cheese" Bobby Crush. Now there was a "talent".

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#605111 - 06/07/04 12:38 PM Re: Richard Clayderman
Ollie Offline
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Registered: 06/14/01
Posts: 78
Since we are discussing modern popular pianists, what do we think of Dino? IMO, his technique is formidable. Personally I found Victor Borge a little irritating since as soon as I would settle down to enjoy his playing he would interrupt it with a comic interlude.

Ollie

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#1547951 - 10/31/10 08:01 PM Re: Richard Clayderman [Re: Horace]
raskdog Offline
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I'm not a huge Clayderman fan but I do love Lady Di. I have to agree that it is fairly easy music to play. I am doing Lady Di for my Grade 6 exam. I've only been playing it for a couple of weeks and already feel that I am getting s stranglehold on it, bar a couple of sections. Whether it is easy or not though, doesn't detract from it being a great piece of music. Why does great music have to be hard to play?

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#1547953 - 10/31/10 08:10 PM Re: Richard Clayderman [Re: raskdog]
Mark_C Offline
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Originally Posted By: raskdog
I'm not a huge Clayderman fan but....
Nice 'search' job! smile
(1st post on this thread in 6 years, which means most of us here never saw it.)

I remember when there used to be all those late-night TV ads for his recordings. They said he had sold more recordings in Europe than any other pianist, but most people here (U.S.) had never heard of him. So, a lot of people made fun of him, especially David Letterman, who did a whole series of Richard Clayderman jokes. But then eventually, they had Clayderman on the show, including playing some of his stuff and being a good sport about the whole thing.
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#1547978 - 10/31/10 08:39 PM Re: Richard Clayderman [Re: Horace]
Mati Offline
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Well, I don't put Clayderman on my shelf of classical pianists I admire, but I certainly do enjoy his music. His, Keiko Matsui, Yanni, Yiruma and other new age'y stuff that's plain pleasure to listen to - yet nothing ambitious.

I am pretty sure even after being able to play Rachmaninoff concerti (we can have our dreams, right? :D) I will return with smile to "Ballade pour adeline" (which is, by the way, de Sennevile's composition, Clayderman only played it) or "Comptine d'un autre ete..." by Yann Tiersen. Being simple doesn't make them stupid.

And yeah - I thought I've been on this forum for so long... and yet I haven't seen this thread! ;-)



M.


Edited by Mati (10/31/10 08:40 PM)
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#1547982 - 10/31/10 08:44 PM Re: Richard Clayderman [Re: Horace]
argerichfan Offline
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This thread -at three pages- seemed to have popped up from nowhere.

Two comments:

(1) It seems to be an established fact that Clayderman was a graduate of the Conservatoire de Paris. (What did he play? The Happy Farmer?)

(2) Would he ever have had any kind of career without those looks... which played out so perfectly for 30-something women during the '80's in US cities such as San Francisco, Seattle, Chicago, Boston where the men in their offices were either married or gay?

Tell me I'm missing something. During the same time frame Joshua Bell was an awesome sight to behold, but those looks were backed up by an incredible talent. I've seen Mr. Bell live a number of times -I know where he lives in London, hehe- and he delivers the goods. Maybe when his looks are no longer a big selling point he might tackle the Elgar concerto. Elgar did not write his concerto for youngsters, though many have tried, and I don't fully understand the piece.
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#1547985 - 10/31/10 08:51 PM Re: Richard Clayderman [Re: Horace]
Mati Offline
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I can't run away from the comparison, that may be unfair to one of them, but strikes my head like a hammer. The comparison that Clayderman is somehow the Vanessa Mae of piano.

She perhaps can play classical as well, but she virtually never does. Playing what sells best in her genre she doesn't unveil even a 5% of her technique (which she may no longer have, for instance, after neglecting it).

He found a niche... and musicians like him are needed in this world as well.

Speaking of Joshua Bell - he delivers the goods of the sorts that looks is not that important. The target audience of Clayderman wouldn't call what Bell delivers "goods", no matter how he looked. On the other hand, the target audience of Bell wouldn't care for Clayderman looks at all, considering what he plays.


M.
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#1547991 - 10/31/10 09:00 PM Re: Richard Clayderman [Re: argerichfan]
Mark_C Offline
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Originally Posted By: argerichfan
.....Would he ever have had any kind of career without those looks.....

Looks matter. smile
A lot.
And IMO if we think there's something wrong with that, we are losing sight of human nature and what drives us.

A few years ago, I was at a master class where everyone played well. This one guy was probably the least good, but he was beautiful -- young guy, maybe 20, better looking than Clayderman and better looking than just about anybody. As far as we pianists were concerned, he was of only marginal interest, but I realized that if (let's say) the media had been present, 95% of the coverage would have been about him. The headline might have been "Beautiful Guy, 5 Others Perform at Master Class." ha
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#1548011 - 10/31/10 09:20 PM Re: Richard Clayderman [Re: Mark_C]
argerichfan Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mark_C

And IMO if we think there's something wrong with that, we are losing sight of human nature and what drives us.

Indeed Mark. Thanks for your post. Why was it a few years ago that I never missed a Panic! At The Disco concert?
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#1548064 - 10/31/10 11:12 PM Re: Richard Clayderman [Re: Horace]
CebuKid Offline
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Originally Posted By: Horace
I didn't know who he was, and ordered a DVD of his playing from Netflix. I didn't enjoy the music very much.

According to his website, he "won a conservatory competition" at age 16, or something. Anyway, he was playing entirely easy music, stuff that an average player with several years experience can play (presumably). What's his deal, is he technically deficient or does he intentionally play simpler pieces so as not to challenge his audience, or what? He was even playing a simplified version of the slow Moonlight sonata movement, which is pretty easy in its original version. Watching him play, his body language was not that of someone who's in full control of the piano. Hard to explain, but he was watching his hands in a certain way, it didn't seem as effortless as any technically skilled pianist I've seen play.


He's got a niche in the "easy listening" market for piano. There are thousands of classical concert pianists, and somehow, he stayed away from that genre and decided to corner this niche market and sell thousands of CDs (I'd bet the majority of his customers are non-pianists), and in the process has made millions.

I think he's done pretty well for himself. smile



Edited by CebuKid (10/31/10 11:15 PM)

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#1548145 - 11/01/10 04:12 AM Re: Richard Clayderman [Re: Horace]
Oz Marcus Offline
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I remember my mother being all excited in the 80's when I learnt to play 'Lady Di'. However, it is sort of like Muzak
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#1548219 - 11/01/10 08:25 AM Re: Richard Clayderman [Re: Horace]
apple* Offline


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i ordered his blue book a while back. at the time it was interesting. i have a pile of books i give away.
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#1548280 - 11/01/10 10:20 AM Re: Richard Clayderman [Re: Horace]
btb Offline
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Richard Clayderman published a smash hit in 1977 ... Ballade for Adeline ... which every teenager with piano ambitions liked to play in public.

Here’s the cover page together with the two page Ballade for Adeline by Paul de Senneville and Olivier Toussaint ... even I was dragooned into playing this ditty at the time.





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#1548282 - 11/01/10 10:24 AM Re: Richard Clayderman [Re: btb]
argerichfan Offline
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Registered: 11/15/06
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Originally Posted By: btb
Richard Clayderman published a smash hit in 1977 ... Ballade for Adeline ... which every teenager with piano ambitions liked to play in public.

Here’s the cover page together with the two page Ballade for Adeline by Paul de Senneville and Olivier Toussaint ... even I was dragooned into playing this ditty at the time.


It's gotta be the eyes... yeah that's where the money was. The fantasy of thousands of single (or maybe not?) women.
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#1548293 - 11/01/10 10:39 AM Re: Richard Clayderman [Re: Horace]
btb Offline
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Registered: 01/21/04
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Loc: Pretoria South Africa
Thanks for that fan,
I've just tacked on the two page score to Ballade for Adeline.

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#1548294 - 11/01/10 10:40 AM Re: Richard Clayderman [Re: Oz Marcus]
NikkiPiano Offline
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Registered: 02/05/10
Posts: 172
Loc: Hertfordshire, UK
Yes, my mum was reeeally impressed when I learnt Ballade for Adeline in 1990 on a Casio, 5 octave, non-velocity sensitive keyboard with mini keys. Stuff seemed so much more expensive back then! If that's contributing to my playing ability today then I have Richard to thank for. I think I have an old recording on cassette somewhere..

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#1548305 - 11/01/10 10:50 AM Re: Richard Clayderman [Re: btb]
argerichfan Offline
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Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8848
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted By: btb
Thanks for that fan,
I've just tacked on the two page score to Ballade for Adeline.

And thanks for that, btb.

The Ballade is a prime candidate for if you can't sightread it you're playing it too fast. laugh
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#1548656 - 11/01/10 06:15 PM Re: Richard Clayderman [Re: argerichfan]
currawong Offline
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Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 5920
Loc: Down Under
Originally Posted By: argerichfan
It's gotta be the eyes... yeah that's where the money was. The fantasy of thousands of single (or maybe not?) women.
Well he never appealed to me, let me tell you. And btb, thanks for posting the music to Adeline. Now I know what that horribly annoying tune which has seeped into my brain from time to time over the last 30 years actually is. On second thoughts, I don't thank you. smile
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#1548666 - 11/01/10 06:21 PM Re: Richard Clayderman [Re: argerichfan]
Mati Offline
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Registered: 11/25/05
Posts: 1276
Loc: Lodz, Poland
Originally Posted By: argerichfan
Originally Posted By: btb
Thanks for that fan,
I've just tacked on the two page score to Ballade for Adeline.

And thanks for that, btb.

The Ballade is a prime candidate for if you can't sightread it you're playing it too fast. laugh


or your vision is not good enough to be a good sightreader anyway, which seems to be the case with me laugh


M.
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New Topics - Multiple Forums
An aural and visual demonstration of the Skeleton.
by Mark Cerisano, RPT
22 minutes 35 seconds ago
tunelab update
by michaelopolis
51 minutes 53 seconds ago
Who makes ribbon moulding?
by Craig Hair
Today at 03:25 PM
Chopin's Technician
by laguna_greg
Today at 02:03 PM
Could you please help my son choose a composition?
by christineka
Today at 12:47 PM
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