Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Tuner-Technicians Forum Did I buy a lemon?

I just bought a 5' Kawai in mahogony finish. I could not have been more pleased with it. But I am worried because the E below middle C will not hold its pitch. When I went to try this piano out in the store, I noticed that the E was WAY off key, but the salesman assured me that it just had not been tuned (all other keys sounded okay). I had it tuned after being in my house for 2 weeks. Within a day or two, the E started to stick out like a sore thumb. The store agreed to have the technician come out again, who agreed that it was way off, and said it might just be that the string is defective. He tuned it again on Monday and it already sounds a little iffy. He said to call him back to replace the string if this last tuning doesn't fix the problem.

In addition to the E problem, the technician pointed out that the cabinet squeeks when you press down on the sustain pedal. I hadn't noticed this before he did but did once he pointed it out.

Are these typical problems? Or should I be worried?

Was it new or used?

The pedal squeak is probably just a loose lyre or something like that, related to moving, and not structural. However, it is difficult to say without seeing the piano.

It's new.

With regard to the pedal, he pointed out that the piece of wood under the piano where the pedals are attached was loose. He said he would remove the whole mechanism and tighten it with glue.

This is a grand piano, if I am not mistaken. On Kawais, there are 8-10 screws that hold the piece of piece of wood onto the bottom of the lyre pedestal. They can be tightened, and should not be glued. I doubt if this is the problem, though. If the joints of the lyre are loose, that's a whole other matter.

My first suggestion would be to tighten all of the screws--especially those that hold they lyre BRACES (the brass support rods that prevent the lyre from moving when you push the pedal down) where they attach to the piano. I've seen several situations where the movers didn't tighten those down all the way and it caused a racket when the pedal was played.

Some other causes for squeaks in Kawais are:

the grommet that the pin of the pitman (small dowel with pin on the end, invisible from outside of piano) is inserted into may need lubricating

the rubber cups that the pedal rods sit in get dry sometimes and can squeak (again, lubrication)

the pins that hold the pedals in the pedal box may be squeaking, but that is unlikely in a new piano.

I have tuned literally hundreds of new Kawai grands and have never seen a problem that glue could fix.

If it's an upright, then it's a whole different matter. You said 5', so I assumed a grand piano.

Good luck!

Sounds like I need a second opinion regarding the pedal squeek.

Any thoughts on the string? Is this something I should be worried about?

Three reasons why that string goes out of tune. 1. the tuning pin for that string is too loose to hold the string at pitch (the technician should have told you if that's the case)or 2. This string was recently replaced and is still stretching out - or 3. both 1 and 2 - the tuning pin is loose because the string was replaced with the original tuning pin instead of using the next larger pin size, or otherwise compensating. I'd be surprised if the block was cracked at that pin on a new piano, so I'd tend to eliminate that possibility, though it does exist.

Tell the dealer to send out a good technician, because I'm not convinced your original tech is good.

Kawai makes a fine piano and anything of this nature does not amount to a "lemon." The string might have been replaced on the salesfloor, broken while tuning. It happens on all pianos. A new string would settle like that. If the glue joints in the pedal box are loose they will require regluing but that's highly unlikely on a new piano. Rest assured Kawai as a company does not want disastified customers. I agree with the above post: get the dealer to send a more experianced tech.

If the string was replaced it may need a few tunings to stabilize.

The best tuner in the world can't tune a string one time and make it stay, if it is brand new. It needs time and a few tunings to stretch it out before it holds steady.

And if all else fails ......calling KawaiDon !

And don't forget to check the bridge. While rare in a new instrument, a hairline crack along a pin line can cause a gradual loss in side bearing, thus a drop in pitch.

(Kawai makes a great piano.)

Sorry I neglected to offer an opinion about the string during my lengthy tome about the pedals.

Kawai is indeed a quality company and will take care of whatever issues might arise.

I think the string was probably recently replaced and didn't get as many factory tunings as the rest of them. Interestingly enough, I had the same e string--on an upright, though--have a similar problem. I went back several times, and it turns out that the wire near the hitch pin loop was unravelling, so I ordered a new string from Mapes, and Kawai took care of that as well as a service call.

I agree with the idea that another tech might be in order.

They are a first rate company, and are always willing to help. Plus, you actually get to talk to a person when you call!

Another thing to check is that the becket goes all the way through the tuning pin. If it doesn't, it can slowly pull out and the pitch will drop. You don't find this often, but it does happen occasionally.

Pedal squeaks are probably the most common customer complaint -- more even than going out of tune. There are a million possible causes, and most are easily fixed.

--Cy--

Thanks for your input.

Quick update: the store has been very nice and is sending a more experienced technician tomorrow to look at it. Here's hoping this one will be the charm!

Therese,

Now you have to let us know what it is/was!