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#607984 - 01/28/09 08:04 PM Re: Adjusting Steinway flanges
Silverwood Pianos Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 4182
Loc: Vancouver B. C. Canada
“He understands the risks and is excited to learn.”

Agreed. Apparently though, he does not like to be taught. Part of being an instructor is allowing the student to “see” or “discover” where the problem lies.

Many of the posters on this thread have given plenty of information, nudges, and hints. Armed with all of that help, and further, with the instructional books that the OP has, or claims to have, should have gone a long way to helping solve the problem.

The OP has made several claims in this thread about fixing a colorful variety of mechanical objects. It seems that the OP would like to learn on his own and has stated so. Then why come here then? Most here have a working life as a professional technician. This is hardly doing it yourself if we tell the OP the full answer.

Some might want to go back and read the entire thread. In my book this is not a discussion, it is answering and solving a problem (sight un-seen) for a DIY’er and no proof has been supplied that this is his piano. How do we all know if we are assisting in helping to screw up a good action?

In this particular instance, the OP wanted the whole answer to the question without trying to sort it out for himself. When he does not receive the answer he is looking for he gets objectionable……

www.silverwoodpianos.com
_________________________
Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."

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#607985 - 01/28/09 10:58 PM Re: Adjusting Steinway flanges
Keith Roberts Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/04/04
Posts: 1984
Loc: Murphys, Ca
Posted by Sliverwood;
In my book this is not a discussion, it is answering and solving a problem (sight un-seen) for a DIY’er and no proof has been supplied that this is his piano. How do we all know if we are assisting in helping to screw up a good action?


That is one of the best reasons not telling guys like this anything except it sounds as if he's already screwing it up. :rolleyes:
If he is lying to us then for sure he is going to go ahead and collect money for it and proclaim it working properly. Anyway.

So I say, if you have to suggest he find a tech or mentor, you don't have to be rude. Let one of the more polite guys, tactfully suggest it and then just echo. We don't need hysterical or insulting dissertations on this subject everytime someone asks a question.
I much prefer sarcasm.
_________________________
Keith Roberts
Associate, PTG
Keith's Piano Service
Hathaway Pines,Ca

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#607986 - 01/28/09 11:05 PM Re: Adjusting Steinway flanges
Keith Roberts Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/04/04
Posts: 1984
Loc: Murphys, Ca
Oh, there are guys like Jerry Vivano that have done some really nice things with their work because of our help and I'm sure it has only wetted their appetite
_________________________
Keith Roberts
Associate, PTG
Keith's Piano Service
Hathaway Pines,Ca

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#607987 - 01/29/09 10:34 AM Re: Adjusting Steinway flanges
Ed Foote Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 975
Loc: Tennessee
Greetings,
In the same sense that the balloon seller will
GIVE you a needle, here is how you space Steinway flanges.

First, actions usually migrate to the left as the stop felt compacts. Do not try to space the hammers to accomodate this global movement or you will have all the shanks sitting to the right of the bump pads.pick the majority of the shanks that are centered over the whippen rest pads and determine if you need to shim the stop block on the bass side of the action cavity.

While traveling,keep the flanges in their same position, (if you move the flanges laterally on previously compacted hammer rail cloth, they will really travel a lot, but will be unstable), you can then move the hammer from side to side by placing traveling paper on opposing corners.

If you put the paper, ( I use brown packing tape cut in various width strips, from 1/16" to about 3/16") under the proximal right corner and the distal left corner, the hammer will swing to the right without upsetting the traveling. The reverse also is true. If you keep the flange in the same indentation on the hammer rail, it will usually keep its traveling undisturbed.
If you place the paper under just one corner, you combine traveling and spacing, ie, If the hammer is traveling to the right, yet is hitting the strings as you like, then placing the paper under the proximal right corner of the flange will space the hammer to the right while also traveling it to the left.With experience,the amount of time and paper required to space and travel can be minimized.

Inre the whippens:they are spaced and traveled the same way, though everything is at 90 degrees, so get accustomed to the procedure on the hammers first. The whippens must not only align with the knuckles at the balancier window, they must also align with the capstan. This twin requirement sometimes necessitates traveling the whippen so that it is not perfectly vertical, but tht can't be helped.

There is a lot of things to keep in mind, not the least is that when you changed the spacing on well worn hammers, you will need to learn to shape and resurface them, since string grooves misaligned to strings sound terrrible.
Hope that helps,
regards

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#607988 - 01/29/09 10:37 AM Re: Adjusting Steinway flanges
Ed Foote Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 975
Loc: Tennessee
One other things about that paper: the wider the strip, the greater the effect. Also, how far out the paper is located, the greater the effect, ie, if you place a 1/16" shim at the very edge of the flange, it will have more effect than if you place it halfway between the center and the edge of the flange.

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#1161626 - 03/12/09 01:06 AM Re: Adjusting Steinway flanges [Re: Silverwood Pianos]
bill32 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/31/08
Posts: 17
Loc: el paso, texas
Bravo Foote!
I have been working on pianos for over 50 years and am still learning everyday. The first year in the business I went to a shop in NYC. Asked a simple question and was told "we can't answer that it is a secret". There were other times as well. These so called secrets I later found were not so secret. However it is like the dark ages with these people. If I had to hire a piano man it would most likely be you as opposed to those who were unwilling to help. This thread made me think of those days. Your answer was very complete.
_________________________
Piano Tech
El Paso, Texas
tuneit@swbell.net

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#1162180 - 03/13/09 03:11 AM Re: Adjusting Steinway flanges [Re: bill32]
rysowers Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 2340
Loc: Olympia, WA
Excellent post Ed!

Speaking of spacing hammers...

A good tip I picked up at the California PTG conference this year was to space the hammers with the una chorda pedal activated. Space the hammers so that the left edge of the hammer splits the left string. Then finish by filing off the edge of the hammer.This way you end up with very uniform hammer position with the una chorda depressed.

I believe it was Richard Davenport who suggested this, but I'm not sure.

I've been getting pickier about the una chorda adjustment and voicing the past year. Steve Brady's new book inspired me to pay more attention to this. It was suggested by one of the concert artists he interviewed that technicians should pay more attention to refining the una chorda.
_________________________
Ryan Sowers,
Pianova Piano Service
Olympia, WA
www.pianova.net

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