Looking for some opinions on a piano I am considering. Sorry, no pics.
I may have an opportunity to purchase a Steinway M that has been damaged during a move. It is a 1979 ebony model M, 5'7", lovingly cared for until the movers got their paws on it.
The damage appeared isolated to the outer rim, which has a 3 or 4 foot crack from an impact at the rear of the piano, continuing toward the front of the instrument. The crack is just above the plate/soundboard level and has not had any detectable effect on the inner rim or soundboard. Bridges look great and still up to pitch and in tune (mostly, it's been a while since it's been tuned anyway). There main concern I have is some metallic rattling from a few of the lowest bass notes, but does not appear to be emanating from the case damage. It could be as simple as the strings have come unseated, or could be hairline cracks in soundboard? No visible cracks or separation of soundboard from inner rim or ribs.
It may be a rather low price... and it plays and sounds great excluding those bass notes.
Could a crack like this be stabilized? Would it even worsen or stay put? The outer rim is not so structurally important as the inner as far as I gather, but I bet I will stand corrected on that. I gather it is the termination point of the soundboard, but would a crack above the soundboard level affect things terribly?
I would greatly appreciate your ideas or experiences. I am also curious what you might be willing to pay for such an instrument, and what a your long-term prognosis of the instrument might be.
I am just glad I wasn't there to hear the yelp that piano must have released upon impact. Sends chills up my spine thinking about it!
Many thanks and regards.

Welcome to the forum!

People often ask for opinions here on a used instrument. It's impossible to give an accurate opinion via the 'Net, just as it would be for a used car. Find a local technician and get an appraisal.

That said, I would personally run, not walk, from this piano. A Steinway rim is very, very strong. Grands are moved on their side, on the flat bass side. Chances are that the tail side struck something with considerable force (imagine a staircase or a ramp into a truck).

The issue isn't the crack so much as the great likelihood of worse damage elsewhere from the impact.

Get a thorough, thorough inspection, and try to find out exactly what happened, and how long ago it was. The case might later warp as a result of unequal tension, causing alignment problems.

--Cy--

Could have fallen OFF a truck or off the ramp.

I wouldn't gamble on something like this unless I knew exactly what happened in terms of how exactly the force was applied. That's what it is- gambling. Only we have no idea what the odds are. However if it's an amount of money you won't feel too bad about if you lose it, go for it.

Thanks for your replies... the damage occurred only recently before my viewing the piano. A technician friend of mine has seen it and felt pretty good about it. It was his final stance that there is no evident supplementary damage, but he can't be entirely sure of the long term effects on the instrument. I am not very sure exactly what happened in the incident, but that other furniture the family had was damaged in the move also. Any hope that this crack can be stabilized?

I agree, GET AWAY!!!

Even if it's not a serious problem, it could get worse. If you had to replace the frame of a piano, it could cost more than simply getting a new piano.
Definitely look for a better deal.

The implications of a crack in your post sound like you can see daylight through it.
I think (please correct me if I am wrong) the Steinway rim is laminated maple. - (Trying to imagine cracking highest quality plywood made of maple) - Can you see all the way through the crack or is it more supreficial? Maybe just the veneer is split?
Can you be a bit more descriptive?

The fact that it happened recently makes it more of a concern. Further damage could appear as the piano adapts to humidity changes and stresses are put on it. There may be a hairline crack in the plate, not visible now, but that gets larger over time.

It's like finding a car with a crushed fender and a crack in the frame. Even once all the damage has been repaired, the severity of the impact greatly increases the chances of other damage.

Consider that the piano weighs around 700 pounds, and has roughly 20 tons of tension on the strings. It's a massive instrument, with critical close tolerances for 10,000 moving parts:
Grand piano exploded view (sorry)

The alignment of the plate to the soundboard and bridges is critical. The alignment of the keybed, keys, and action to the plate and strings is critical.

On top of that, you have to ask what the condition was before the accident. It's 25 years old, probably with the Teflon action, which may need attention by now. Aside from the crack, what else does it need?

--Cy--

The crack has gone all the way through the rim to the inside of the cabinet at the point of impact. This depth is for maybe 8 inches then is not visible from the inside of the outer rim.
Cy, Teflon action? I don't know anything about that... special considerations when dealing with such an action? I know it needs some regulation definitely but will not be discouraged for that as a reason. Is there something inherently poor in Teflon action?
Thanks all, your feedback is greatly appreciated.

Take advice of others and leave it alone.

Steinway made a design change to use Teflon to reduce friction, back when CBS owned them. It doesn't necessarily mean there's a problem, but in some actions those parts are loose, causing a clicking noise. The fix is to replace all those parts, which is expensive. Ask your technician about it.

I'm not trying to discourage you because it needs regulation; I'm alerting you that because of alignment problems, it may not be *possible* to be regulated well, either now or in the future if things warp.

Whatever happened to the piano has not stopped its impact. Because of the huge stresses involved, parts may continue to move around. Cracks may grow.

Not being able to see the piano, the best I can do for you is to be devil's advocate, at least so you can ask the right questions. I think we've all been faced with a "deal of a lifetime" at one time or another.

There's at least a small probability that at some future point, the piano would be a total loss. How much risk you're comfortable with is, of course, up to you.

--Cy--

Reminds me of 30 years ago, I found a free grand at a frat house. The rim and key bed were warped so that the front legs leaned oposite directions. I was sure I could straighten it out. Wrong. hee hee.

A Steinway with this type of damage has lost most of it's value. Stay away.

Thanks all for your replies. I am not 100% sure what I will decide in the end. I hear all the warnings, and appreciate them, I am sure there is great legitimacy to the advice given so far. However, I can't help but wonder if a skilled rebuilder be able to stabilize the rim. Is there not a way to do this?
My understanding is certainly limited compared to the experience in the present conversation, but is the outer rim such a load-bearing structure that the instrument could warp? That seems far-fetched if the inner rim is still sound. If....
With no intentions of displaying ignorance and blindsightedness to get the Steinway name into my life, I want it to just make sense to me before a decision is made. I am thinking to have another technician look it over before things finalize, preferably a rebuilder.
Sincerely, thanks all for your feedback! The deal of a lifetime scenario tests one's wisdom.

I would say if it's under $3000 and plays and sounds great you could try twisting or replacing those rattling strings and hopefully end up with a useful musical instrument.

If it turns out the piano has got some issue rendering it total trash, well then you gambled and lost and you can suck it up.

If you spend much more than $3K, all I can say is 'do ya feel lucky'?

No, but it's like a car with a busted windshield. You can replace the windshield, but what else is damaged in the accident? I'm not convinced you had a thorough inspection.

Is the string height the same in bass and treble? Is the keybed straight? Is the plate cracked? Is the pinblock cracked, or separated from the plate flange? Is the inner rim delaminated anywhere? Are any ribs loose from the soundboard? Are the nose bolts bent?

I could think of a million things to check.

--Cy--

P.S. A million and one.

P.P.S. Victor Borge had a great line: "There are three things I can never remember..... No, four."

Purely from an engineering aspect which was my profession, I would evaluate the forces needed to do that amount of damage which I would guess as very high, as someone says like falling off a truck. Therefore the unseen damage potential will be high A cracked frame springs to mind. They only crack not bend and would be likely hard to see.

If cheap enough I would take a gamble but based on the worst case scenario. Or suggest that you will take it on the basis that it's dismantled and then evaluated. It's obviously not safe to pay much for as spare parts which it may end up being.

Was it an insurance subject?

Alan

Thanks Alan, this is an insurance situation, you are correct.
The price would be more than 3K, to answer to Brick's comment. Should be less than 5K though. I do feel kinda lucky, but that's a fool's paradise if ever there was one!
And Cy, I agree that a more thorough examination will be necessary. I will see if first it is fully available to me (insurance proceedings, yaddah yaddah).... then have a thorough examination if it seems like it's available to me.
Is it just useless wishful thinking on my part that the rim could somehow be improved from it's current state and be prevented from worsening?
Thanks again.

I suppose you could first see if some pipe clamps will draw the crack shut in a complete manner. If yes, then it's a matter of finding a way to force good wood glue into the crack, then clamping it closed to set. A good glue joint is at least as strong as the wood itself.

If the crack does not close completely when testing with clamps but the two halves basically align, then you need to try the repair with a gap filling glue like epoxy or resorcinol. If you can't find a way to force it into the joint, or if the crack contains loose or splintery wood, you may have to route or clear the crack a bit first. Once cleared, of course you don't try to clamp it closed again- just clamp it enough that the entire piece has the right outer dimensions and let the gap-filling stuff act as filler. Of course it will need cosmetic work afterward.

If you're not experienced with epoxies, be sure to follow all instructions to the letter.

This, I figure, gives you your best shot.

If the two halves of the piece do not align well (have an offset).... rotsa ruck. You will have to figure out some way to get the alignment back first.