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#615012 - 07/18/07 03:04 AM Tuning pins and Pinblocks
Mark.D Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/21/06
Posts: 12
Loc: South Africa
From what I have read and understand, a piano with tuning pins larger than 7.25mm in the pinblock cannot be fine tuned. Is this true?

If this is true, then are the larger size tuning pins (7.35mm - 7.75mm) only for average quality pianos and for clients who are not willing to have their pinblock replaced due to the expense involved but have loose tuning pins?

When should a pinblock be replaced apart from severe damage?

Thank you

Mark

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#615013 - 07/18/07 03:09 AM Re: Tuning pins and Pinblocks
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21183
Loc: Oakland
 Quote:
From what I have read and understand, a piano with tuning pins larger than 7.25mm in the pinblock cannot be fine tuned. Is this true?
No.
_________________________
Semipro Tech

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#615014 - 07/18/07 01:29 PM Re: Tuning pins and Pinblocks
tds Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/30/06
Posts: 446
Loc: Bastrop, Texas
 Quote:
Originally posted by Mark.D:
From what I have read and understand, a piano with tuning pins larger than 7.25mm in the pinblock cannot be fine tuned. Is this true?
Mark [/b]
There may be a few technicians who have difficulty moving a relatively large tuning pin, but the piano can still be easily tuned.

Provided the strings render smoothly across the bearing points and the pin torque is within the normal range, there is no reason why a piano can't be fine tuned, despite its having oversized tuning pins.

It's up to the technician to make it happen.
_________________________
Stay tuned.

Tom Seay, Recovering Piano Technician
Bastrop, Texas

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#615015 - 07/18/07 01:36 PM Re: Tuning pins and Pinblocks
Gene Nelson Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 1460
Loc: Old Hangtown California
Larudee Low Torque tuning pins. The tip size does not increase with the thread size making tuning oversize pins a bit easier.
_________________________
RPT
PTG Member

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#615016 - 07/19/07 02:32 AM Re: Tuning pins and Pinblocks
Mark.D Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/21/06
Posts: 12
Loc: South Africa
Thank you BDB, Tom and Gene for your Responses.

Where does one purchase Larudee Low Torque Tuning pins from Gene.

Thank you

Mark

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#615017 - 08/03/07 11:19 AM Re: Tuning pins and Pinblocks
Pianomann2 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/02/07
Posts: 41
Loc: USA
I have a recent case of a piano which has been re stung with over tight pins and it will not stay in tune regardless of numerous tunings. My instinct is to eventually go through the piano winding out each pin, slipping off the string coil, and winding out perhaps 6 turns and back again. The number of turns would be determined by a sample test at the start of the job. any further comments on this?

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#615018 - 08/03/07 01:12 PM Re: Tuning pins and Pinblocks
Mark.D Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/21/06
Posts: 12
Loc: South Africa
Hello pianomann2

Arthur Reblitz in his book, suggests that with to tight pins, one should unwind them and remove them altogether and then knock the same pins back in again.

I think that once the pins are removed, that you should wipe them off with a dry coarse rag or something similar and then rub some talcum powder or teflon powder onto the thread and knock them back in again.

Mark

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#615019 - 08/03/07 03:19 PM Re: Tuning pins and Pinblocks
Gene Nelson Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 1460
Loc: Old Hangtown California
Mark D.
Sorry I missed your post but the Larudee pins can be purchased from PianoTek Supply.

Pianomann2.
Please do not use Teflon powder or any other lubricant on tuning pins - you will more than likely be faced with replacing the block if you do.
If the pins are excessively tight try the Reblitz technique on a couple of worst case samples before you commit to the entire pin block. Also try your idea - maybe before the Reblitz technique as it is a bit less agressive.
Removing the pins and redrilling the block may be a possiblilty if the above fails to get the desired result.
_________________________
RPT
PTG Member

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#615020 - 08/03/07 04:32 PM Re: Tuning pins and Pinblocks
Mark.D Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/21/06
Posts: 12
Loc: South Africa
Hello Gene

Thank you for letting me know where to purchase the pins from.

Gene, could you explain why teflon powder and telcum powder would be a problem on the tuning pins?

Mark

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#615021 - 08/04/07 03:24 AM Re: Tuning pins and Pinblocks
Gene Nelson Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 1460
Loc: Old Hangtown California
Teflon is a very efficient lubricant. There is never any reason to lubricate tuning pins.
Proper boring of the tuning pin holes is the answer.
The tefflon could easily ruin a good pin block by eliminating the needed friction. Once it is in there you will never get it out.
Is this a technique that you use with good results?
I have always been taught to avoid any lube on, near or in the tuning pin area/holes. And I have taken this information seriously - however - I have never experimented. So any explaination from me may not sufficient for you.
_________________________
RPT
PTG Member

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#615022 - 08/04/07 03:39 AM Re: Tuning pins and Pinblocks
curry Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/17/02
Posts: 3769
Loc: Hamilton Twp, NJ
Teflon and talc no. Cleaning the pins before intallation by dipping them in denatured alcohol to remove manufacturing lubricants is reccomended. Yes, new pins have traces of lubes, and should be cleaned. It will result in smoother rendering of the pins in the block.
_________________________
G.Fiore "aka-Curry". Tuner-Technician serving the central NJ, S.E. PA area. b214cm@aol.com Concert tuning, Regulation-voicing specialist.
Dampp-Chaser installations, piano appraisals. PTG S.Jersey Chapter 080.
Bösendorfer 214 # 47,299 214-358

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#615023 - 08/04/07 05:13 AM Re: Tuning pins and Pinblocks
Artisan Piano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/07/07
Posts: 338
We used talc on new pins in the shop I trained in with no problems. The main reason, I think, was to make it easier on the wood fibers when pounding in the pins. Once strung, the pins felt fine.
Would recommend against Teflon.
_________________________
Steven
RPT

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#615024 - 08/04/07 09:04 AM Re: Tuning pins and Pinblocks
Mark.D Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/21/06
Posts: 12
Loc: South Africa
Greetings and thanks to all you who have shared your thoughts on these issues.

Gene, I agree with with you about the boring out of the pinblocks prior to knocking in a new set of tuning pins.

I recently heard a tech speaking about teflon powder, that he uses it on all moving parts of an action. So I thought that using teflon powder on the tuning pins would be a better dry lubricant than talc powder. Teflon repels moisture and I suppose talc would attract moisture.
I use talc powder on tuning pins. I have not tried the teflon powder yet.

Since the various responses have come through, I am seriously reconsidering the teflon powder suggestion I made. I shouln't have made it without having tried it first myself. I am wondering about the use of talc powder on tuning pins too.

I think that the question whether one should or shouldn't use a dry lubricant on the tuning pins is a controversial one and I would like to hear more about the pros an cons.

Curry, I hear and will consider your point about cleaning the pins with denatured alcohol.

Once again thank you all for your responses.

Mark

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#615025 - 08/05/07 03:17 AM Re: Tuning pins and Pinblocks
Keith Roberts Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/04/04
Posts: 1984
Loc: Murphys, Ca
The driving fluid I've heard about is varnish. Old style stuff. Joe Garrett in Oregon. Anybody heard how he is doing?

The good thing about varnish is the stabilizing effect of sealing the raw wood against moisture changes.
_________________________
Keith Roberts
Associate, PTG
Keith's Piano Service
Hathaway Pines,Ca

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