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#61656 - 05/09/07 08:54 PM purchasing piano next week: fazioli vs bosendorfer?
gpiu Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/30/07
Posts: 80
Loc: sf bay area
I have the fortunate dilemma of having to choose between a fazioli f228 vs a boesendorfer 225. I've been in the market over a year for the piano I will likely keep indefinitely. After playing numerous instruments, I've narrowed down the choices to these two models.
The boesendorfer dealer is trying to convince me that faziolis won't hold their value. Since I am not planning to sell the piano later on, this is not a major consideration. In my (albeit limited) experience, however, the opposite might be true. I've only come across one used fazioli in this size. The piano was already sold after 3 days of the initial posting on craigslist.
My question is, faced with this choice only, which piano would you choose and why?

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#61657 - 05/09/07 09:11 PM Re: purchasing piano next week: fazioli vs bosendorfer?
Axtremus Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/03
Posts: 6150
Fazioli F-228, hands down.

Reasons are:

1. Fazioli F-228 has much bigger, more majestic looking double caster wheels, much superior to Bösendorfer 225's tinny-weeny puny little single caster wheels.

2. Fazioli F-228 has 18k gold-plated[/b] brass parts that "maintains the bright color longer" (see http://fazioli.com/eng/doratura_18_k.php ). Beat that, Bösendorker!

As shown above, the superiority of Fazioli over Bösendorfer is clear.

Go get thee the Fazioli F-228 and post pitures tout de suite!
_________________________
www.PianoRecital.org -- my piano recordings

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#61658 - 05/09/07 09:18 PM Re: purchasing piano next week: fazioli vs bosendorfer?
Monica K. Offline

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012


Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 17701
Loc: Lexington, Kentucky
\:D \:D Ax, even my 11 year old daughter who happened to pass by as I was reading this laughed at your post.

Welcome to the forum, gpiu. I haven't played either of those pianos so can offer you no informed advice. But I will say I am quite envious of your dilemma. \:\)

It seems to me that, given the amount of money you will be shelling out for either of these pianos, you should buy the piano that YOU prefer the sound and action of, not the one that a bunch of strangers on an internet forum tell you to buy. ;\)

Surely you have spent a lot of time with both contenders. What are your impressions of their tone? Is there one that sings to you more? If you truly can't decide between the two, go back and play each of them for a few hours, and go back again the next day and play some more, and so on and so on until a preference becomes clear.

But don't worry about resale value. As you point out, it's probably not going to be an issue, and even if it is, at that level, your prospective customers will be aware of both brands.
_________________________
Mason & Hamlin A -- 91997
My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/pianomonica

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#61659 - 05/09/07 09:23 PM Re: purchasing piano next week: fazioli vs bosendorfer?
fingers Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 799
Loc: Westchester, NY
gpiu,

Now that's what I call a dilemma! Congratulations!

If you are really uncertain as to which you prefer based on your conception of tone and touch, here's what I would do if I were you:

Buy the MORE expensive of the two. You will likely have less (if any) buyers remorse and it will cost you less in the long run. Anyone who has been around the hi-end audio hobby for any time, will certainly understand this way of thinking.

Good luck in your quest and welcome to PW.

fingers
_________________________
Playing piano at age 2, it was thought that I was some sort of idiot-savant. As it turns out, I'm just an idiot.

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#61660 - 05/09/07 09:24 PM Re: purchasing piano next week: fazioli vs bosendorfer?
Thang Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 38
Loc: Kansas City
If it was me and I had just won the lottery too I would of course buy both. Which one would go into which house would be the real question. As I have thought about this dilemma for a very long time I think that the cooler water temaptures of the Pacific would go better with the Bosendorfer sound. And the Fazioli would be much better at handling NY, NY, and would be the better choice for the east coast penthouse. Enjoy.
_________________________
Thang

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#61661 - 05/09/07 09:25 PM Re: purchasing piano next week: fazioli vs bosendorfer?
hotkeys Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/12/07
Posts: 788
Loc: Massapequa, NY
I am kind of tempted for the Bosendorfer 225. This piano has 4 extra bass notes! So if you love the bass, this is the piano for you! As recommend by Larry Fine, et al, play a few pianos before you decide. You are pleasing yourself so you want to get the best value, and you want an instrument that will give you joy every time you play! Best wishes!

- Mark
-----------------------------------------------------
The ultimate joy in music is the joy of playing the piano
_________________________
...The ultimate joy in music is the joy of playing the piano...

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#61662 - 05/09/07 09:29 PM Re: purchasing piano next week: fazioli vs bosendorfer?
Piano*Dad Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 10297
Loc: Williamsburg, VA
eeny, meeny, miny, mo ....... \:D

These are two different pianos. How on earth to choose.

Where will you put the beast? In what sort of space? That might have some small influence on what you choose, assuming your preferences are wide enough that you have no clear favorite among the two.
_________________________
Grotrian 192 #156455

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#61663 - 05/09/07 09:48 PM Re: purchasing piano next week: fazioli vs bosendorfer?
kluurs Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/24/02
Posts: 3739
Loc: Chicago
When confronted such a decision, I wouldn't be able to choose either one. So, I'd go with the Steingraeber 209.

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#61664 - 05/09/07 09:53 PM Re: purchasing piano next week: fazioli vs bosendorfer?
Dram Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/07/06
Posts: 84
Loc: MD
Sorry Bosie fans, but this one is too easy. The Fazioli hands down. I've played several Bosies and have not been impressed that they stand out as compared to pianos that cost half as much or less (e.g. Mason & Hamlin, Grotrian, Bechstein, etc.). Fazioli, on the other hand, is the current acme of pianos: beautiful balance, clear sound, action to dream about, the closest thing I've ever come to a religious experience while playing the piano. Try playing anything that has inner voices (like Rachmaninoff) I played the 228 and fell in love with it; I just couldn't quite bring myself to go that far into debt, even for love (yet). (Per the Bosie, I think you have to go up to the Imperial to get the extra notes, but I don't think it's worth deciding on that factor.) One other to put into the mix: Stuart & Sons in Australia is about the same price point; importing into the US is actually pretty easy; I've only heard recording, but from what I've heard, they were absolutely fabulous. Also, you get the extra notes in bass and treble, plus a 4th "half-blow" soft pedal, which can create some quite stunning effects. Check out their website. If you're going to spend that much, do the search right: go play them a lot. And at the risk of sacrilege, before plunking down your money, you might just want to check out PianoCraft's (Gaithersburg MD) custom work on a Mason & Hamlin (BB or even CC). I much preferred it to the Bosie.

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#61665 - 05/09/07 09:56 PM Re: purchasing piano next week: fazioli vs bosendorfer?
ftp Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 2365
Loc: Philadelphia
I would buy the Bosie because I could buy it from Rich and Curry would take care of it. \:\)

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#61666 - 05/09/07 10:18 PM Re: purchasing piano next week: fazioli vs bosendorfer?
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7200
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
gpiu, are you considering the slightly used Bosendorfer that was advertised for $52,000? I almost flew down to SF to take a look at it.
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

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#61667 - 05/09/07 10:51 PM Re: purchasing piano next week: fazioli vs bosendorfer?
Igor Stravinsky Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/22/03
Posts: 231
Your dilemma looks like: Shall I eat the cake or have it? \:D
One more vote for the Fazioli.

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#61668 - 05/09/07 11:25 PM Re: purchasing piano next week: fazioli vs bosendorfer?
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
whichever you like better
_________________________
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)

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#61669 - 05/09/07 11:25 PM Re: purchasing piano next week: fazioli vs bosendorfer?
jazzwee Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6990
Loc: So. California
I have tried these two pianos.


And the winner is....


....(don't know...)


Actually, I don't know how you could go wrong here.
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Piano 88
My Blog

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#61670 - 05/10/07 12:43 AM Re: purchasing piano next week: fazioli vs bosendorfer?
Numerian Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 1071
I owned a Bosendorfer 225 for some time - a marvelous piano. But I up-graded to the Fazioli F228 because the action is absolutely superior.

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#61671 - 05/10/07 12:57 AM Re: purchasing piano next week: fazioli vs bosendorfer?
McLaughlin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/24/07
Posts: 271
Loc: Ohio
Fazioli. Never played one, but what the hell...

A friend in the UK says it's the bomb. Bosie is very nice, but not magical.


Seriously ... buy the one you LOVE. If you dont feel it ... dont buy either one.
_________________________
Brian Lucey - M&H BB 1930
the day job: Magic Garden Mastering
"the economy is a wholly owned subsidiary of the ecology" - unknown

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#61672 - 05/10/07 01:07 AM Re: purchasing piano next week: fazioli vs bosendorfer?
pianoid Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/21/07
Posts: 314
Loc: somewhere in the space-time co...
Fazioli, of course! No wait! Bosendorfer! I mean, Fazioli unless you like the Bosie better.

get it?
_________________________
gggEb!

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#61673 - 05/10/07 01:51 AM Re: purchasing piano next week: fazioli vs bosendorfer?
PoStTeNeBrAsLuX Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/31/05
Posts: 2618
Loc: Geneva, Switzerland
As a current Bösendorfer owner, and also a big fan of Fazioli, I think it would have to depend very much on the specific pianos concerned. I have played perhaps four or five examples of each of these models in recent years. It would probably depend on my mood on the particular day I played each one...

PS. Numerian, a change from a B225 to F228 is hardly an 'upgrade,' merely a change to another very fine piano that is perhaps more suited to your personal style and taste. Once at this level of piano-building, they are no distinguishable quality or level differences, merely ones of different design approaches, and of course, the standard of preparation and maintenance is a major factor as well.

EDIT: Despite everyone assuming the Italian beast is the dearer one, I have a feeling that the F228 is less expensive than a B225 in list price terms. Anyone have any firm data on that?

-Michael B.
_________________________
There are two rules to success in life: Rule #1. Don't tell people everything you know.

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#61674 - 05/10/07 02:11 AM Re: purchasing piano next week: fazioli vs bosendorfer?
AJB Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/01/05
Posts: 3655
Loc: Surrey, England
You mention depreciation, and then say it may not be relevant.

I would say that they will both depreciate substantially in real terms (after taking account of the time value of money) if you are paying new prices. The Fazioli may well be easier to sell on though, should that be necessary, as they are rare on the used market.

Good luck with your choice.
_________________________
S&S Hamburg D, Yamaha CLP 280


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#61675 - 05/10/07 02:29 AM Re: purchasing piano next week: fazioli vs bosendorfer?
pianistical Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/13/04
Posts: 1377
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
I am surprised that you are considering both pianos as they are very, very different. I would have thought that if one was looking for the sound of one the other would seem very alien.

On the other hand, based on the experience on this forum, it seems that people who have an affinity for one of them usually also prefer the other to the other tier one pianos.

I think I would go for the Bösendorfer as I think it is a warmer and sweeter sounding piano and because it would hold its value better.

No, I would probably go for the Fazioli as I consider it a slightly more versatile instrument despite it being a bit too aggressive for my tastes.
_________________________
“There are only two important things which I took with me on my way to America, It´s been my wife Natalja and my precious Blüthner.” – Sergei Rachmaninov

1913 Blüthner model 6
1929 Blüthner model 9.
1955 Steingraeber upright.

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#61676 - 05/10/07 02:59 AM Re: purchasing piano next week: fazioli vs bosendorfer?
bkkmd Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/06/06
Posts: 304
Loc: Bangkok, Thailand
I wonder,on this board, for those who can't afford either, Fazioli seems to get the majority vote. For those who can afford it and bought one,on this board, Bosie owners certainly out number Fazioli owners by quite a big margin.
I wish I get to have a dilemma like this one of these days \:\)

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#61677 - 05/10/07 03:01 AM Re: purchasing piano next week: fazioli vs bosendorfer?
pianistical Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/13/04
Posts: 1377
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
The reason could be that Bösendorfer is better for home use.

Bösendofer tone: warm and sweet.

Fazioli tone: cool and laser sharp.

Quite the opposite.
_________________________
“There are only two important things which I took with me on my way to America, It´s been my wife Natalja and my precious Blüthner.” – Sergei Rachmaninov

1913 Blüthner model 6
1929 Blüthner model 9.
1955 Steingraeber upright.

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#61678 - 05/10/07 03:15 AM Re: purchasing piano next week: fazioli vs bosendorfer?
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 20780
Loc: Oakland
I would choose the one I liked better. But I have neither. Personally, I would rather have an inexpensive piano and an extensive music collection. So I do!
_________________________
Semipro Tech

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#61679 - 05/10/07 03:15 AM Re: purchasing piano next week: fazioli vs bosendorfer?
Matthew Collett Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 536
Loc: Auckland, New Zealand
 Quote:
Originally posted by pianistical:
The reason could be that Bösendorfer is better for home use. [/b]
I haven't played a recent-model Bösendorfer of the size under discussion. But for home use I would not want to switch from my F212 to an F228. In a concert hall it would be another matter.

 Quote:
Originally posted by PoStTeNeBrAsLuX:
Despite everyone assuming the Italian beast is the dearer one, I have a feeling that the F228 is less expensive than a B225 in list price terms. Anyone have any firm data on that?[/b]
About 18 months ago, I was quoted much higher list prices for Bösendorfer than Fazioli. Almost 50% higher.

Best wishes,
Matthew
_________________________
"Passions, violent or not, may never be expressed to the point of revulsion; even in the most frightening situation music must never offend the ear but must even then offer enjoyment, i.e. must always remain music." -- W.A.Mozart

212cm Fazioli: some photos and recordings .
Auckland Catholic Music Schola .

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#61680 - 05/10/07 03:26 AM Re: purchasing piano next week: fazioli vs bosendorfer?
mjs Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/10/07
Posts: 365
Loc: München, Germany
In Germany, the list prices for the Bösendorfer 225 and the Fazioli 228 are roughly the same (give and take 1000 €) - both around 83 000 €.

Buy the instrument YOU like best, the one YOU think suits the music YOU play -- don't think I would want to listen to other people's advice at that stage anymore.
Or: wait until Steingräber bring out the 232 cm instrument (in about a year, I think) ...

Just my 2 cents.

Markus
_________________________
Steingraeber D-232 # 45 777
Neupert Telemann harpsichord

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#61681 - 05/10/07 03:44 AM Re: purchasing piano next week: fazioli vs bosendorfer?
PoStTeNeBrAsLuX Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/31/05
Posts: 2618
Loc: Geneva, Switzerland
Matthew:
But for home use I would not want to switch from my F212 to an F228. In a concert hall it would be another matter.[/b]

I quite often get to play (and hear others performing, both jazz and classical) on a fairly new F212 that is in a smallish (~150 seater) recital room at the Conservatoire Populaire de Genève. It is an extremely fine instrument for both solo performing and accompanying. When playing for my son's exams or recitals, it is more than capable of the very fine dynamic distinctions and clarity needed to accompany a double-bass, (most recently Fauré's Sicilienne, for example.)

For home use (where I have a very live environment, stone-tiled floors, rough-plastered walls, bamboo venetian blinds on windows and very few soft furnishings) I went with the perhaps softer-toned 214CS, but I don't think that Fazioli and Bösendorfers are mutually exclusive in touch and tone preference terms, if you see what I mean.

-Michael B.
_________________________
There are two rules to success in life: Rule #1. Don't tell people everything you know.

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#61682 - 05/10/07 05:02 AM Re: purchasing piano next week: fazioli vs bosendorfer?
samuelbuddy Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/03/07
Posts: 10
Loc: Milan - Italy
Ciao to everyone from Milan, Italy. I'm a fan of Bosendorfer crispy, vibrant basses and mellow middle tones but if you are looking for a complete gorgeous grand piano don't esitate: Fazioli is absolutely astonishing.

Sam

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#61683 - 05/10/07 08:31 AM Re: purchasing piano next week: fazioli vs bosendorfer?
Numerian Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 1071
Postenebraslux:

You wrote:

PS. Numerian, a change from a B225 to F228 is hardly an 'upgrade,' merely a change to another very fine piano that is perhaps more suited to your personal style and taste. Once at this level of piano-building, they are no distinguishable quality or level differences, merely ones of different design approaches, and of course, the standard of preparation and maintenance is a major factor as well.

Some of the older Bosies had sluggish actions and could readily be upgraded to a Steinway, Fazioli, etc. I gather this has been corrected by Bosendorfer so that they now compete with all top tier pianos, though my bias is that the Faziolis on average have more responsive actions than other pianos.

The different design approaches do affect tonal quality. There is something about the Bosendorfer bass that is just gripping and which I miss. But the Fazioli bass has tremendous clarity in the most complex chords, and this is true across the keyboard.

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#61684 - 05/10/07 08:51 AM Re: purchasing piano next week: fazioli vs bosendorfer?
I. Bruton Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 861
Loc: Raleigh
In my experience, the Fazioli is a louder piano therby requiring the pianist to use more control for soft passages. Though it's not exactly a flaw. The Bosie is quite easy to control and will give you a strong clear ff with a litte effort. This really is a coin toss.

Good luck!
_________________________
I. Bruton
B.A. Music Composition
M.M. Music Education
High School Choral Director
Church Music Director
Pianos owned: Yamaha C3
Pianos at work: Yamaha P22, Kawai K3, Steinway B

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#61685 - 05/10/07 09:18 AM Re: purchasing piano next week: fazioli vs bosendorfer?
oldcars Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/11/06
Posts: 253
Loc: Philly burbs
 Quote:
Originally posted by fathertopianist:
I would buy the Bosie because I could buy it from Rich and Curry would take care of it. \:\) [/b]
Which is exactly what I did.

I have played a Fazioli one time in my life. It sounded great, played well, but as I recall, it didn't have the same charisma as other fine pianos. It could have been the location, prep, tuning, voicing and all the piano specific factors that were unique for this one instrument. For lack of better words, it sounded "antiseptic" to me - clean, clinical, very precise, but lacked a warmth. The audio fanatics reading this might appreciate these terms when one describes the sound of a solid state amplifier vs. tubes.

Over the years I have visited numerous piano dealers and experimented with various pianos in many different locations. I've heard disappointing Steinways and magnificent Yamahas.

It's very hard to make a conclusion based on one brief experience or trial with a piano. If you are really in the position to fully appreciate the subtle nuances between two great pianos, then the decision is to be honest with yourself and choose the one that calls to you.

Good luck
_________________________
Bösendorfer 225
Yamaha CVP 307
--------------
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams. Live the life you have imagined. Henry David Thoreau

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