I have the fortunate dilemma of having to choose between a fazioli f228 vs a boesendorfer 225. I've been in the market over a year for the piano I will likely keep indefinitely. After playing numerous instruments, I've narrowed down the choices to these two models.
The boesendorfer dealer is trying to convince me that faziolis won't hold their value. Since I am not planning to sell the piano later on, this is not a major consideration. In my (albeit limited) experience, however, the opposite might be true. I've only come across one used fazioli in this size. The piano was already sold after 3 days of the initial posting on craigslist.
My question is, faced with this choice only, which piano would you choose and why?

Fazioli F-228, hands down.

Reasons are:

1. Fazioli F-228 has much bigger, more majestic looking double caster wheels, much superior to Bösendorfer 225's tinny-weeny puny little single caster wheels.

2. Fazioli F-228 has 18k gold-plated[/b] brass parts that "maintains the bright color longer" (see http://fazioli.com/eng/doratura_18_k.php ). Beat that, Bösendorker!

As shown above, the superiority of Fazioli over Bösendorfer is clear.

Go get thee the Fazioli F-228 and post pitures tout de suite!

Ax, even my 11 year old daughter who happened to pass by as I was reading this laughed at your post.

Welcome to the forum, gpiu. I haven't played either of those pianos so can offer you no informed advice. But I will say I am quite envious of your dilemma.

It seems to me that, given the amount of money you will be shelling out for either of these pianos, you should buy the piano that YOU prefer the sound and action of, not the one that a bunch of strangers on an internet forum tell you to buy.

Surely you have spent a lot of time with both contenders. What are your impressions of their tone? Is there one that sings to you more? If you truly can't decide between the two, go back and play each of them for a few hours, and go back again the next day and play some more, and so on and so on until a preference becomes clear.

But don't worry about resale value. As you point out, it's probably not going to be an issue, and even if it is, at that level, your prospective customers will be aware of both brands.

gpiu,

Now that's what I call a dilemma! Congratulations!

If you are really uncertain as to which you prefer based on your conception of tone and touch, here's what I would do if I were you:

Buy the MORE expensive of the two. You will likely have less (if any) buyers remorse and it will cost you less in the long run. Anyone who has been around the hi-end audio hobby for any time, will certainly understand this way of thinking.

Good luck in your quest and welcome to PW.

fingers

If it was me and I had just won the lottery too I would of course buy both. Which one would go into which house would be the real question. As I have thought about this dilemma for a very long time I think that the cooler water temaptures of the Pacific would go better with the Bosendorfer sound. And the Fazioli would be much better at handling NY, NY, and would be the better choice for the east coast penthouse. Enjoy.

I am kind of tempted for the Bosendorfer 225. This piano has 4 extra bass notes! So if you love the bass, this is the piano for you! As recommend by Larry Fine, et al, play a few pianos before you decide. You are pleasing yourself so you want to get the best value, and you want an instrument that will give you joy every time you play! Best wishes!

- Mark
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The ultimate joy in music is the joy of playing the piano

eeny, meeny, miny, mo .......

These are two different pianos. How on earth to choose.

Where will you put the beast? In what sort of space? That might have some small influence on what you choose, assuming your preferences are wide enough that you have no clear favorite among the two.

When confronted such a decision, I wouldn't be able to choose either one. So, I'd go with the Steingraeber 209.

Sorry Bosie fans, but this one is too easy. The Fazioli hands down. I've played several Bosies and have not been impressed that they stand out as compared to pianos that cost half as much or less (e.g. Mason & Hamlin, Grotrian, Bechstein, etc.). Fazioli, on the other hand, is the current acme of pianos: beautiful balance, clear sound, action to dream about, the closest thing I've ever come to a religious experience while playing the piano. Try playing anything that has inner voices (like Rachmaninoff) I played the 228 and fell in love with it; I just couldn't quite bring myself to go that far into debt, even for love (yet). (Per the Bosie, I think you have to go up to the Imperial to get the extra notes, but I don't think it's worth deciding on that factor.) One other to put into the mix: Stuart & Sons in Australia is about the same price point; importing into the US is actually pretty easy; I've only heard recording, but from what I've heard, they were absolutely fabulous. Also, you get the extra notes in bass and treble, plus a 4th "half-blow" soft pedal, which can create some quite stunning effects. Check out their website. If you're going to spend that much, do the search right: go play them a lot. And at the risk of sacrilege, before plunking down your money, you might just want to check out PianoCraft's (Gaithersburg MD) custom work on a Mason & Hamlin (BB or even CC). I much preferred it to the Bosie.

I would buy the Bosie because I could buy it from Rich and Curry would take care of it.

gpiu, are you considering the slightly used Bosendorfer that was advertised for $52,000? I almost flew down to SF to take a look at it.

Your dilemma looks like: Shall I eat the cake or have it?
One more vote for the Fazioli.

whichever you like better

I have tried these two pianos.


And the winner is....


....(don't know...)


Actually, I don't know how you could go wrong here.

I owned a Bosendorfer 225 for some time - a marvelous piano. But I up-graded to the Fazioli F228 because the action is absolutely superior.

Fazioli. Never played one, but what the hell...

A friend in the UK says it's the bomb. Bosie is very nice, but not magical.


Seriously ... buy the one you LOVE. If you dont feel it ... dont buy either one.

Fazioli, of course! No wait! Bosendorfer! I mean, Fazioli unless you like the Bosie better.

get it?

As a current Bösendorfer owner, and also a big fan of Fazioli, I think it would have to depend very much on the specific pianos concerned. I have played perhaps four or five examples of each of these models in recent years. It would probably depend on my mood on the particular day I played each one...

PS. Numerian, a change from a B225 to F228 is hardly an 'upgrade,' merely a change to another very fine piano that is perhaps more suited to your personal style and taste. Once at this level of piano-building, they are no distinguishable quality or level differences, merely ones of different design approaches, and of course, the standard of preparation and maintenance is a major factor as well.

EDIT: Despite everyone assuming the Italian beast is the dearer one, I have a feeling that the F228 is less expensive than a B225 in list price terms. Anyone have any firm data on that?

-Michael B.

You mention depreciation, and then say it may not be relevant.

I would say that they will both depreciate substantially in real terms (after taking account of the time value of money) if you are paying new prices. The Fazioli may well be easier to sell on though, should that be necessary, as they are rare on the used market.

Good luck with your choice.

I am surprised that you are considering both pianos as they are very, very different. I would have thought that if one was looking for the sound of one the other would seem very alien.

On the other hand, based on the experience on this forum, it seems that people who have an affinity for one of them usually also prefer the other to the other tier one pianos.

I think I would go for the Bösendorfer as I think it is a warmer and sweeter sounding piano and because it would hold its value better.

No, I would probably go for the Fazioli as I consider it a slightly more versatile instrument despite it being a bit too aggressive for my tastes.

I wonder,on this board, for those who can't afford either, Fazioli seems to get the majority vote. For those who can afford it and bought one,on this board, Bosie owners certainly out number Fazioli owners by quite a big margin.
I wish I get to have a dilemma like this one of these days

The reason could be that Bösendorfer is better for home use.

Bösendofer tone: warm and sweet.

Fazioli tone: cool and laser sharp.

Quite the opposite.

I would choose the one I liked better. But I have neither. Personally, I would rather have an inexpensive piano and an extensive music collection. So I do!

I haven't played a recent-model Bösendorfer of the size under discussion. But for home use I would not want to switch from my F212 to an F228. In a concert hall it would be another matter.

About 18 months ago, I was quoted much higher list prices for Bösendorfer than Fazioli. Almost 50% higher.

Best wishes,
Matthew

In Germany, the list prices for the Bösendorfer 225 and the Fazioli 228 are roughly the same (give and take 1000 €) - both around 83 000 €.

Buy the instrument YOU like best, the one YOU think suits the music YOU play -- don't think I would want to listen to other people's advice at that stage anymore.
Or: wait until Steingräber bring out the 232 cm instrument (in about a year, I think) ...

Just my 2 cents.

Markus

Matthew:
But for home use I would not want to switch from my F212 to an F228. In a concert hall it would be another matter.[/b]

I quite often get to play (and hear others performing, both jazz and classical) on a fairly new F212 that is in a smallish (~150 seater) recital room at the Conservatoire Populaire de Genève. It is an extremely fine instrument for both solo performing and accompanying. When playing for my son's exams or recitals, it is more than capable of the very fine dynamic distinctions and clarity needed to accompany a double-bass, (most recently Fauré's Sicilienne, for example.)

For home use (where I have a very live environment, stone-tiled floors, rough-plastered walls, bamboo venetian blinds on windows and very few soft furnishings) I went with the perhaps softer-toned 214CS, but I don't think that Fazioli and Bösendorfers are mutually exclusive in touch and tone preference terms, if you see what I mean.

-Michael B.

Ciao to everyone from Milan, Italy. I'm a fan of Bosendorfer crispy, vibrant basses and mellow middle tones but if you are looking for a complete gorgeous grand piano don't esitate: Fazioli is absolutely astonishing.

Sam

Postenebraslux:

You wrote:

PS. Numerian, a change from a B225 to F228 is hardly an 'upgrade,' merely a change to another very fine piano that is perhaps more suited to your personal style and taste. Once at this level of piano-building, they are no distinguishable quality or level differences, merely ones of different design approaches, and of course, the standard of preparation and maintenance is a major factor as well.

Some of the older Bosies had sluggish actions and could readily be upgraded to a Steinway, Fazioli, etc. I gather this has been corrected by Bosendorfer so that they now compete with all top tier pianos, though my bias is that the Faziolis on average have more responsive actions than other pianos.

The different design approaches do affect tonal quality. There is something about the Bosendorfer bass that is just gripping and which I miss. But the Fazioli bass has tremendous clarity in the most complex chords, and this is true across the keyboard.

In my experience, the Fazioli is a louder piano therby requiring the pianist to use more control for soft passages. Though it's not exactly a flaw. The Bosie is quite easy to control and will give you a strong clear ff with a litte effort. This really is a coin toss.

Good luck!

Which is exactly what I did.

I have played a Fazioli one time in my life. It sounded great, played well, but as I recall, it didn't have the same charisma as other fine pianos. It could have been the location, prep, tuning, voicing and all the piano specific factors that were unique for this one instrument. For lack of better words, it sounded "antiseptic" to me - clean, clinical, very precise, but lacked a warmth. The audio fanatics reading this might appreciate these terms when one describes the sound of a solid state amplifier vs. tubes.

Over the years I have visited numerous piano dealers and experimented with various pianos in many different locations. I've heard disappointing Steinways and magnificent Yamahas.

It's very hard to make a conclusion based on one brief experience or trial with a piano. If you are really in the position to fully appreciate the subtle nuances between two great pianos, then the decision is to be honest with yourself and choose the one that calls to you.

Good luck