This is my first post on the site. I just started tuning as an amateur for fun, though I've been playing the piano ever since I was little. I recently just got done reading:

"Tuning: Containing the Perfection of Eighteenth-Century Temperament, the Lost Art of Nineteenth-Century Temperament and the Science of Equal Temperament" by Owen H. Jorgensen

(awesome book---821 pages--took forever to read but worth it---luckily the book was at a nearby library because it sells for around $350.00!!!)


"Complete Course in Professional Piano Tuning: Repair and Rebuilding" by Floyd A. Stevens

(just the tuning section---nowhere near as good as Jorgensen but it did seem to have very detailed advice on how to go about setting the pin---or at least the right way to try)

"Fundamentals of Piano Practice:TUNING YOUR PIANO"
by Chuan C. Chang

(an online book/article that did a very good job explaining the basic science behind temperament and some basic psychoacoustics)

Using and constantly referring back to what I've read, I've tuned a whopping THREE upright pianos in the past 2 months--but I was really only satisfied with one, and that one took me FOREVER.

Using a paps mute, a C-523.7 Hz Fork, an A-440 Hz Fork, two rubber wedges, a $35.00 hammer, a felt bearing strip, and a metronome to help with beat speeds (multiply bps times 60), I've been able to tune a piano to my satisfaction.

However, I've run into a bit of a problem. A friend of mine has a really crappy-looking small upright in his basement that he doesn't seem to care about( perfect for me to practice on )---and they're pretty sure it hasn't been tuned in over 15 years---that's right---15 years.

Well, I tuned it---or at least tried to. Of course, all the unisons were as terrible as is possible, and most of the piano was an entire semitone flat.

I started out trying to do a normal tuning, but then thought---there's no way this thing is going to hold tune off the bat---so I just "rough-tuned" the whole thing by ear as quickly as possible using a Korg digital chromatic tuner for the bearing section and then by ear and by octaves through the bass and treble. Sure enough---it was de-tuning even before I finished (45 minutes). Of course it still sounded terrible, but better. I came back a week later and tuned it properly by ear using the tuning forks and beat speeds (took 4 hours). After I was done--it held tune for much longer and sounded even better---but still nothing you'd want to play in front of someone. I plan to tune it again over this weekend.

So I have a question.

Is it even reasonable to assume that this thing will ever hold tune if it was, in fact, neglected for 15 years? Besides the good practice, am I just wasting my time trying to get it to sound good (am I polishing a turd)? Furthermore, I'm not even sure how crappy this thing was when it was new. The only thing I can remember off the top of my head is that it said "Grand 1911" on it's faceplate and it's really short and it looks CHEAP. Oh yea, and it's missing it's left front leg---they made "another one" out of a Lowe's 2x4.

Any suggestions or comments are welcome. Does the "Grand 1911" ring any bells? I've never heard of it. Generic?

Knowing what kind of piano it is would help a lot. And size.
It sounds like a good piano to practice on. There are threads on this forum that describe methods of pitch raising. I generally run into one piano a week that hasn't been tuned in 15 or more years. I raise them in a single sitting.
Sounding "good" is relative. If you can improve it each time you tune it, it will be time well spent.
Beat rates are guide lines, at some point you will stop counting and start recognizing what sounds correct.

Steven, thanks for the reply.

The only writing on it is on a faceplate in the middle of the top cover---and it just says "Grand" and then "1911" off to the right. I'll take a closer look at it this weekend to get some more information on it.

I was interested in what the quality of the piano was when it was new.

Do you find it more difficult to tune bottom-of-the-line pianos?

coen, at this point you want to get as much practice manipulating the tuning pins and strings as you can.
There's a wealth of information on this forum.

My parents have one like this from the mid 1960s. Perhaps the one you're asking about is made by the same company?

From bluebookofpianos dot com:
" GRAND

One of the few family owned and operated piano manufacturers remaining in existence. Exclusive manufacturers of the CONSOLLA upright pianos which are 39" in height and the 42" HERITAGE series direct blow consoles. The entire product line is marketed nationwide under the GRAND and/or UNCAID names. Grand specializes in the manufacture of budget priced upright pianos which are sold through leading piano dealers throughout the United StateL Grand's modern manufacturing facilities consist of 100,000 square feet situated on a 25 acre tract of land immediately outside of the Morganton city limits.

GRAND-KINKAID by Marantz
(Also made Superscope Pianocorder Player Pianos )

1961-13200 1966-17400 1971-20200 1976-23500
1962-13900 1967-17800 1972-20900 1977-24100
1963-14500 1968-18100 1973-21700 1978-25200
1964-15200 1969-19100 1974-22300 1979-25800
1965-16800 1970-19500 1975-22900 1980-26600 "

In Fine's book, they are considered possibly one of the worst made pianos ever. My parents didn't play, they'd gotten it for my grandmother. She loved having it and we loved hearing her play on it, oblivious to all its failings...it was Grandma's piano. Then she got a Hyundai 5'2"baby grand in 1992 or so and loved that more...

"In Fine's book, they are considered possibly one of the worst made pianos ever."

LOL!! YES!

I had a feeling that might be the case, because even when it's tuned---it sounds pretty bad.

Thanks again for the info.

http://www.referenceforbusiness.com/history/Ge-He/Grand-Piano-Furniture-Company.html
One more bit of information, it started in Virginia.

I have Reblitz and White and was thinking of getting an additional reference book. Can anyone recommend "Complete Course in Professional Piano Tuning: Repair and Rebuilding" by Floyd A. Stevens?

coen9, I just want to applaud you for your approach. There are many, many of these tired pianos around that are just perfect for beginners to experiment with, rather than with expensive new pianos still under warranty.

Techs have come under fire here for warning piano owners about trying to do their own repairs on such instruments, and yet that is our obligation, to warn of the consequences. At the same time, I'd like to commend you for finding a perfect candidate for your own learning project, just as I did, and most other techs.

And it's over-the-top for you to have read all of Jorgensen! I know his work, and do historic tunings, but I haven't gone through it!

We need more piano technicians; something like 75% of us in the PTG are over 50, and I encourage anyone to follow their passion, whatever it might be. Project pianos are out there, desperate for attention. Visit your local nursing homes, or the choir rehearsal room at your church, or the chapel at your hospital (with permission, of course). Anything you can do to improve these pianos would be welcomed, even if it's just cleaning up the unisons, or trying to figure out why that key sticks, and you will learn a lot.

For more info:
http://ptg.org/becomingATech.php

--Cy--

Cy,

Thanks for the reply. It did work out rather nicely---finding that piano that is. I tackle it again tomorrow.

And yes---it took me about a month---off and on---to read all of Jorgensen. I found the historical temperaments very interesting as well as the evolution of tuning knowledge that progressed over the years. The entire Appendix section, from an informational standpoint, in that book was superb---especially the parts on inharmonicity and octave tunings.

I'll be finishing my B.S. in electrical engineering next year, but piano tuning is definitely something that I've become interested in recently. I've even thought about designing some new tuning software for my senior project (Reyburn and Sanderson watch out!--

Tuning, eh hem, trying to tune, makes me appreciate the instrument more when I play and seems to make playing more rewarding.

And I'll check out the PTG website.

Thanks again.

coen,

just wanted to say hi. I thought your thread was interesting. I am also finishing my B.S. in EE this summer, and I have been into tuning my old 1911 Kurtzmann studio upright for the last couple of years. The neat thing about tuning old pianos is that it is great practice; you will get better and better, and the piano may sound better and better as it may hold a tune better and better. My piano only needs fine tuning adjustments every few months these days, whereas a couple of years ago it would fall a few cents every couple of weeks. I have also tinkered with my action a lot over the last few years, and it is responding much better today than it did a couple years ago. little bit by bit, an old piano and your new skills will reward you!

btw, where are you doing your EE degree? University of North Florida here. And, what do you have in mind for the senior design project? I (team of one) am right now finishing up a portable dynomometer that employs a microprocessor reading a 3-axis accelerometer and counts alternator voltage ripple for rpm. Just plug it into a car's cigarette lighter and go! It outputs horsepower and torque data to an LCD and graphs them against rpm, and it times 0-60 and 1/4 mile runs -- simple build, mostly programming ... but lots of fun!

take care,
Rob

Rob_EE,


Virginia Commonwealth University (Richmond, VA)

For the senior design project, I'm currently interested in using an AVR microcontroller to make a stand-alone visual tuning-aid for piano-tuning---but I may change my mind.

Us E.E. amateur piano-tuners seem to be a rare breed. Have a good one.

You never told us Coen is it a console or a spinet?

What kind of action did it have drop, compressed, full blow?