If the breaking strength of wire was the answer then it would be relatively simple to solve. Stainless wire may have a higher breaking point for equal diameters compared with steel but it is also softer and more flexable.
Has anyone experimented with stainless?
To add to Keith's point about hammer shape and resiliance of the felt is the fact that many hammers just do not have resiliance regardless of efforts to introduce this quality. This is why I always like Isaac's as their resiliance is superior to anything out there in my opinion.

Stainless has a lower breaking point for equal diameters, I believe. "Pure Sound" is one brand name for it. Jim Busby at the U. of Utah in Provo has used it a lot. It's more fragile to install and is more expensive, but he says it makes a piano sound like a bigger one.

--Cy--

Kieth,

I agree with you.
Putting up the scale information was in support of that idea.

Asian hammers have tended to be rock hard and heavy.
Fortunatly, there seems to be a trend away from that.

Worn older Asian hammers are a problem for heavier players,

I don't really like throwing an entire group of people under the bus, but... the heavy players I've met are just .. heavy players. I am not sure that it is ALL about the particular volume. At the moment, I don't know how to fairly describe it from here.

There are some older Yamaha grands, Wurlitzer grands (Young Chang Version)and such that I hate tuning. Strong test blows break strings.

Hammer shaping helps. Good wire such as Rosleau helps more as does new hammers.

One particular Yamaha G2 continued to break strings after hammer shaping. No broken strings after replacing the hammers.

Generally tho it is some combination of hammers, string quality, capo shape, heavy players.

It isn't usually the scaling of the plain wires.

Wound srrings, that's another story.

So to stop the strings from breaking on a 1998 Kawai I would needle the center line to blossem out the cup, noticing where any hard spots are. Soften the hard spots. By softening the shoulders, the tip can compress farther which means you have lenghthened the spring (hammer). Make the tip round again and shape hammer. Again by removing the felt on the sides, the hammer expands out more and allows the tip to compress farther before it hits bottom. Don't over needle and lose the support of the shoulders. The sound of the note will now be fuller and rounder and PROJECT into the room. (Of course the Samick I did didn't project until I seated the strings to the bridge.) Then with a single needle, even out the brighter notes by coming in under the tip, 11 and 1 oclock, and feel for the hard spot. You're done. The Grotrian I work on stopped breaking strings when I shaped the hammers. Renner Rockin' Reds.

Hey Keith,

needling is the answer, but you need to stick the needles into the fingers of the "pianist" so they will hurt at anything above pianissimo. Honestly though, there is no solution to this sort of problem short of replacing the piano "banger" with a real pianist. All the other stuff just gets you fired with bad feelings from the church because "That guy couldn't fix the piano. He didn't know what he was doing." Any suggestion that you can resolve the problem when there is nothing wrong with the piano just makes you look bad. IOWs, put the blame where it belongs, on the "pianist", not on the piano.

Just my 2 cents.
Dale Fox
Registered technician

Larry, Heres what I found: guage 15, speaking length 9 13/16, 15-9 5/16, 14 1/2-7 7/8, 14 1/2- 7 7/16, 14-5 7/16(2), 13 1/2-5 1/16(2), 13 1/2-4 13/16(2)
Thanks,
Steve

Hey Dale, that would be the best solution, that's funny. Did you see the comment of the college tech? He says half his faculty only knows that the piano was tuned because the pile of junk on it was moved so he goes by inbetween tunings and moves the stuff around and effectivly doubles his tunings.
Really what I was suggesting with the Kawai was that it had never been voiced from the factory. On Dale Erwin's suggestion I needled a new Kawai upright that didn't sound that great and the sound blossemed from the piano. A lot of pianos that I play I feel that they make me work to to project the sound. The sound envelope is compressed. The ppp doesn't have enough sustain sound so you up the volume just a little and the fff doesn't cut so you are having to drive the piano hard. Then I play it after voicing or one that has been voiced properly and what a difference. I can relax as the player because the soft stuff seems to carry and the cut is effortless and the more I get used to it the more freedom I have in the expression and the more I use it. I'm a heavy handed player at times too.

Like my point was, needling effectively lengthens the spring and will lessen the number of broken strings. If you look at the strings that are broken, into the 4th octave, The player is not getting any cut through in that range. The hammer must be like a sharp rock or have a corner on it to break strings in this area. I think this supports my theory that this piano has never been voiced and brought up to it's potential. There is nothing wrong with the stringing scale.

Good Morning Steve,

Thanks for the measurments.
Before I can give you data, I need to know what notes these are.

Do you know off the top of your head or does it require another trip to the piano?

Larry

Got so busy trying to get measurments, I neglected to put the notes down. I could make a fairly accurate guess on some of them, but I'll wait. I'm sure I'll be visiting them again. The church is an hour away.
Thanks again for responding
Steve

*Bump*