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#618395 - 12/06/08 05:49 PM Never seen this one
accordeur Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 1168
Loc: Qubec, Canada
Gotta wonder if this guy ever heard of piano supply houses. web page
_________________________
Jean Poulin

Musician, Tuner and Technician

www.actionpiano.ca

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#618396 - 12/06/08 05:50 PM Re: Never seen this one
accordeur Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 1168
Loc: Qubec, Canada
Not tied to the butt, but to the let-off screw!!!!
_________________________
Jean Poulin

Musician, Tuner and Technician

www.actionpiano.ca

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#618397 - 12/06/08 07:05 PM Re: Never seen this one
Supply Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 3919
Loc: Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
 Quote:
Originally posted by accordeur:
Gotta wonder if this guy ever heard of piano supply houses.
This is EXACTLY why real[/b] supply houses don't deal with DIYers.
_________________________
Jurgen Goering
Piano Forte Supply
www.pianofortesupply.com

Piattino Caster Cups distributor

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#618398 - 12/06/08 07:31 PM Re: Never seen this one
Ron Alexander Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/17/03
Posts: 1292
Loc: North Carolina
That would be funny, if it wasnt so pathetic!!

I'm still trying to figure what that design accomplishes...nuttin.
_________________________
-----------------
Ron Alexander
Piano Tuner-Technician

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#618399 - 12/06/08 07:39 PM Re: Never seen this one
Rickster Offline


Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 8422
Loc: Georgia, USA
Supply, why do you assume that whoever did this is a DIY and not a real tech. Maybe s/he was in a hurry that particular day. \:D

Also, I would think that any DIY could obtain most any piano part/supply imaginable through the internet. Business is business and money is money. ;\)

Best regards,

Rick
_________________________
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel

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#618400 - 12/06/08 07:58 PM Re: Never seen this one
Silverwood Pianos Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 4187
Loc: Vancouver B. C. Canada
Well I looked at the picture,………. good for a couple of nightmares anyways…..

To wax that thread and stick all of those on would take an incredible amount of time. Even if the thread was already waxed, a lot longer than the proper repair. A good piano technician would know this.

Someone that completes this type of repair, in this fashion, for myself, I would not consider this a qualified technical repair. This is a band aid, and not a very good one either.

Interesting comment about the DIY’ers finding parts. It would seem that many of them are un-able to locate the correct parts Rickster, which is why a lot of them end up here looking for guidance.

www.silverwoodpianos.com
_________________________
Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."

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#618401 - 12/06/08 08:11 PM Re: Never seen this one
accordeur Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 1168
Loc: Qubec, Canada
I'm a little confused here Mister Silverwood. Wax and thread? They are regular twist ties for garbage bags. Imagine the time and effort put in to accomplish disaster. The whippen is tied to the let-off screw!!!! Has to be a DIYer, and now I get paid to fix it!!!
_________________________
Jean Poulin

Musician, Tuner and Technician

www.actionpiano.ca

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#618402 - 12/06/08 08:16 PM Re: Never seen this one
Silverwood Pianos Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 4187
Loc: Vancouver B. C. Canada
Oh ok, it looked like waxed heavy cotton thread, on this screen. Not on my home computer right now….

Yes I like the part where it is attached for sure…. Good job there accordeur……

www.silverwoodpianos.com
_________________________
Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."

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#618403 - 12/06/08 08:36 PM Re: Never seen this one
Ron Alexander Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/17/03
Posts: 1292
Loc: North Carolina
No tech, even using the word loosely, would do something like that!!! The picture has DIY'er written all over it...you just need to know how to read it.
_________________________
-----------------
Ron Alexander
Piano Tuner-Technician

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#618404 - 12/06/08 08:49 PM Re: Never seen this one
Rickster Offline


Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 8422
Loc: Georgia, USA
Okay, guy’s, I was just funnin a little with Jurgen \:\) . You all are right, of course. But you’ve got to give them an A for effort and a C creativity, if an F for results. \:D

Besides, I’m no longer a DIY since I’ve tuned a piano that’s not mine. ;\) (Even if I did it for free. \:D )

Take care,

Rick
_________________________
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel

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#618405 - 12/07/08 11:36 AM Re: Never seen this one
Sam Casey Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/05/05
Posts: 1135
Loc: SW Missouri
It's called job security boyz.

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#618406 - 12/07/08 01:00 PM Re: Never seen this one
Dave Stahl Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/06/07
Posts: 1645
Agreed, Sam...some of my best customers WERE DIYers.

I'll bet the guy even lifted the twist ties from the grocery store.

Nice pic of an ugly subject, accordeur.
_________________________
Promote Harmony in the Universe...Tune your piano!

Dave Stahl, RPT
Piano Technician's Guild
San Jose, CA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAniw3m7L2I
http://dstahlpiano.net

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#618407 - 12/07/08 02:55 PM Re: Never seen this one
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6828
Loc: Grand Rapids Michigan
I've seen a lot of that sort of stuff here too. Obviously, they have no clue what the let off button is for or that someone, someday, will need to turn it.

It's sad when they don't bother finding out how to properly do it first.
_________________________
Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.

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#618408 - 12/07/08 03:47 PM Re: Never seen this one
rysowers Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 2401
Loc: Olympia, WA
I don't know why people are so critical. It was a valiant attempt but, alas, lacked a basic understanding of how the action functioned. I remember the first time I saw a piano action and thought "how in the WORLD did they come up with this crazy looking contraption!?".

Like the thread about clients tuning their own pianos, the client is taking all the risk, their experience will increase their respect for our trade and it will likely gain us more business? I don't see a problem ;\)
_________________________
Ryan Sowers,
Pianova Piano Service
Olympia, WA
www.pianova.net

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#618409 - 12/07/08 04:08 PM Re: Never seen this one
accordeur Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 1168
Loc: Qubec, Canada
I agree, when I first saw this, I was actually impressed with the persons creativity, however misguided. Creates more work and respect for us pros.
_________________________
Jean Poulin

Musician, Tuner and Technician

www.actionpiano.ca

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#618410 - 12/07/08 05:15 PM Re: Never seen this one
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6828
Loc: Grand Rapids Michigan
You never see a problem with it Ryan. 99% of the rest of us do. You have your opinion of it, I have mine and mine does not agree with yours.
_________________________
Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.

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#618411 - 12/07/08 05:38 PM Re: Never seen this one
Supply Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 3919
Loc: Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
 Quote:
Originally posted by Rickster:
...Also, I would think that any DIY could obtain most any piano part/supply imaginable through the internet. Business is business and money is money. ;\)
Rick
You are right, Ricky.
Chances are some internet supplier sold the guy the twist ties in the first place!

_________________________
Jurgen Goering
Piano Forte Supply
www.pianofortesupply.com

Piattino Caster Cups distributor

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#618412 - 12/07/08 05:39 PM Re: Never seen this one
Ron Alexander Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/17/03
Posts: 1292
Loc: North Carolina
I see absolutely nothing valiant about it Ryan. I guess some people would smell a stinky toilet and think is smells nice.

The word "valiant" to me signifies some noble effort; something of value.

Yes, a piano action can be quite charming and can be overwhelming to the untrain eye. But to give credence to an effort like the one in that photo is not valiant nor does it give any degree of credibility to the one who did it or to the one who thinks it's a valiant effort!!!
_________________________
-----------------
Ron Alexander
Piano Tuner-Technician

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#618413 - 12/07/08 05:54 PM Re: Never seen this one
Supply Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 3919
Loc: Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
Looking at the picture again, is also seems that the perpetrator ;\) not only turned the let-off screws so that the eyes are all neatly oriented in a straight line, the let-off screws are also screwed all the way down to the rail.

I'm sure the action had an interesting feel to it.
At least there would be no blocking hammers...
_________________________
Jurgen Goering
Piano Forte Supply
www.pianofortesupply.com

Piattino Caster Cups distributor

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#618414 - 12/07/08 06:22 PM Re: Never seen this one
Peter Sumner- Piano Technician Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/09/07
Posts: 852
Loc: San Francisco
I've been wondering what is in that white box with a piano keyboard pic on the side...
The address on the box is....... .....NOPHILE, Brossard J4Y 2Z2, Canada....

Could this be Canada's secret weapon in piano technology advancement?.....Canadian twisty ties....Why didn't we think if it...?

What IS that box????
_________________________
Peter Sumner
Concert Piano Technician



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#618415 - 12/07/08 06:25 PM Re: Never seen this one
Peter Sumner- Piano Technician Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/09/07
Posts: 852
Loc: San Francisco
OK OK OK....
Just got it...
PIANOPHILE INC.....a supply house....interesting.....
_________________________
Peter Sumner
Concert Piano Technician



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#618416 - 12/07/08 07:00 PM Re: Never seen this one
rysowers Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 2401
Loc: Olympia, WA
Wow you guys are harsh!
Valiant means brave, and I think anyone trying to fix their own piano is just that! It seems like some would prefer to think of this person as stupid.


I guess I've made so many stupid mistakes in my life I can't help but feel a little sympathetic.
_________________________
Ryan Sowers,
Pianova Piano Service
Olympia, WA
www.pianova.net

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#618417 - 12/07/08 07:05 PM Re: Never seen this one
Gene Nelson Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 1464
Loc: Old Hangtown California
I think youall missed the big picture. As the piano is played, the let off screw is slowly rotated by the pull of the tie. This will automatically fine tune the let off over time, compensating for wear.
The type of tie and location on the let off eye are critical.
Anyway, who needs bridal tapes unless you want to replace the action after removal? Pianos function just fine without them.
More than likely the person who did this realized that something was really wrong after he pulled the action and removed what was left of the originals and then tried to replace the action - creative at least.
_________________________
RPT
PTG Member

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#618418 - 12/07/08 07:19 PM Re: Never seen this one
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6828
Loc: Grand Rapids Michigan
Haha, Funny Gene!
_________________________
Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.

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#618419 - 12/07/08 08:19 PM Re: Never seen this one
Bob Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/01/01
Posts: 3834
I Dunno about actions functioning just fine without straps. More than once I've used straps to help hammers return on worn or poorly designed actions. The picture is a hoot, though.
_________________________
www.PianoTunerOrlando.com






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#618420 - 12/07/08 08:34 PM Re: Never seen this one
rysowers Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 2401
Loc: Olympia, WA
Actually, I have an upright action model and just tried the twist tie repair. Believe it or not it kinda worked! (emphasis on kinda)

Gene: The bridle tapes *do* make a difference in the feel of repetition. Jim Ellis published his in-depth look at bridle tapes in the journal years ago and proved that they have an effect on repetition. Also, the action will feel sloppier without them.

There was a time when people were claiming that the only function of the tape was to hold up the wippens during action removal. This was even taught at some convention classes.
_________________________
Ryan Sowers,
Pianova Piano Service
Olympia, WA
www.pianova.net

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#618421 - 12/07/08 09:01 PM Re: Never seen this one
Silverwood Pianos Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 4187
Loc: Vancouver B. C. Canada
Well Bob, maybe you would like to have a look at this very strange and wonderful set-up by Schwander –Herrburger in 1868……

No bridal tape and a horizontal back check…… ha……. really something,……. and it plays well too…….. light and fast. There are about 15 pictures total there.

http://picasaweb.google.com/silverwoodpianos/HerrburrgerSchwanderRareAction#5194077692926526834

it is the only one I have ever seen in 37 yrs. of piano work...... a rare one for sure……

www.silverwoodpianos.com
_________________________
Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."

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#618422 - 12/07/08 09:29 PM Re: Never seen this one
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6828
Loc: Grand Rapids Michigan
Well, I certainly can't be TO serious now, can I Bob? \:D
_________________________
Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.

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#618423 - 12/07/08 09:32 PM Re: Never seen this one
Erus Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/26/07
Posts: 386
Loc: Mexico
Another action with no bridal strap (I understand it was designed for player pianos): http://www.ptgcolumbus.org/files/page_pics_Staib.html

Check the article in this journal about that design: http://www.ptgcolumbus.org/files/Buckeye Backcheck June 2006.pdf

And there was apparently a grand action created by these people: http://www.ptgcolumbus.org/files/page_pics_StaibG.html

Back to normal actions...

Why do modern upright actions have bridle straps? For easier action removal? Were they added to assist putting the hammer back in place for better repetition?

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#618424 - 12/07/08 09:34 PM Re: Never seen this one
Erus Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/26/07
Posts: 386
Loc: Mexico
An error in the matrix... please carry on

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