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Topic Options
#618425 - 12/07/08 10:10 PM Re: Never seen this one
Gene Nelson Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 1530
Loc: Old Hangtown California
Does the Fandrich action have bridals?
_________________________
RPT
PTG Member

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#618426 - 12/07/08 11:09 PM Re: Never seen this one
Erus Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/26/07
Posts: 386
Loc: Mexico
I asked google, apparently that action has no bridals:

http://www.dreams.org/staff/composer/music/piano/fandrich-action/

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#618427 - 12/07/08 11:50 PM Re: Never seen this one
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21821
Loc: Oakland
I have seen an action that just had a rail behind the jacks instead of bridle straps. When the action came out, the jacks were held forward at a point where they would go over the butt felt when the action was replaced.

If the bridle straps have a noticeable effect on repetition, it would be noticed on all the pianos that have broken straps.
_________________________
Semipro Tech

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#618428 - 12/08/08 12:57 AM Re: Never seen this one
rysowers Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 2472
Loc: Olympia, WA
 Quote:
Originally posted by BDB:


If the bridle straps have a noticeable effect on repetition, it would be noticed on all the pianos that have broken straps. [/b]
It does have a noticeable affect. It is more noticeable under certain playing situations such as playing slowly and during certain types of repetitious playing.
_________________________
Ryan Sowers,
Pianova Piano Service
Olympia, WA
www.pianova.net

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#618429 - 12/08/08 01:01 AM Re: Never seen this one
rysowers Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 2472
Loc: Olympia, WA
 Quote:
Originally posted by Gene Nelson:
Does the Fandrich action have bridals? [/b]
The repetition spring that connects the top of the jack to the catcher shank prevents the jack tops from dropping under the hammer butts. It also keeps a continuous mechanical connection between the player and the hammer.

_________________________
Ryan Sowers,
Pianova Piano Service
Olympia, WA
www.pianova.net

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#618430 - 12/08/08 01:01 AM Re: Never seen this one
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21821
Loc: Oakland
If you can diagnose a broken bridle strap by playing, without removing the front board, more power to you. I cannot, and I do nor know anyone who can.
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Semipro Tech

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#618431 - 12/08/08 01:08 AM Re: Never seen this one
rysowers Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 2472
Loc: Olympia, WA
Do this experiment:

1. Unhook one of the bridle tapes.
2. Move that hammer and a neighbor to the strings
3. Release the hammers
4. See which one gets back to rest position more quickly.

They also keep the hammers from getting as far ahead of the jacks as would occur if there were no tape.
_________________________
Ryan Sowers,
Pianova Piano Service
Olympia, WA
www.pianova.net

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#618432 - 12/08/08 01:16 AM Re: Never seen this one
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21821
Loc: Oakland
Sorry, I cannot do that without looking at the action, so it does not count. Besides, there is too much crud on top of my upright.
_________________________
Semipro Tech

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#618433 - 12/08/08 01:19 AM Re: Never seen this one
rysowers Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 2472
Loc: Olympia, WA
Sounds like MY piano!
_________________________
Ryan Sowers,
Pianova Piano Service
Olympia, WA
www.pianova.net

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#618434 - 12/08/08 01:21 AM Re: Never seen this one
rysowers Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 2472
Loc: Olympia, WA
There are many adjustments that would be difficult to diagnose on a grand action just by playing, but that does not mean they are not important or relevent. \:\)
_________________________
Ryan Sowers,
Pianova Piano Service
Olympia, WA
www.pianova.net

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#618435 - 12/08/08 10:59 AM Re: Never seen this one
Gene Nelson Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 1530
Loc: Old Hangtown California
Do this experiment:

1. Unhook one of the bridle tapes.
2. Move that hammer and a neighbor to the strings
3. Release the hammers
4. See which one gets back to rest position more quickly.


During playing I do not think this is would be valid as the hammer is rebounding faster than the sticker assembly will fall by gravity.
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RPT
PTG Member

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#618436 - 12/08/08 06:24 PM Re: Never seen this one
Silverwood Pianos Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 4225
Loc: Vancouver B. C. Canada
Hey some great pictures here, thanks Erus for the unusual action parts there, and Ryan for the Renner assembly, some great inventions for sure.

BDB,

The action that I showed from Schwander, has that rail too. It keeps the jacks from falling out while that action is removed I forgot about that part, and failed to snap a photo of it, thanks for the reminder.
Can we see a picture of all of the crud on top of your beloved upright? Like Ryan, I need to see if it is more crud than on mine….. ;\)

www.silverwoodpianos.com
_________________________
Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."

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#618437 - 12/08/08 06:52 PM Re: Never seen this one
rysowers Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 2472
Loc: Olympia, WA
While working in the shop today I had my wife unhook a bridle tape in one area of the piano. I was able to figure out which one was unhooked just by playing and not looking. Without the bridle tape there will sometimes be more space between the parts, what Darrel Fandrich has called "dynamic lost motion".

Apparently the myth that the bridle tape's only function is to hold up the wippens is still alive and well. I thought Jim Ellis closed the book on this subject when he published his study in the Journal.
_________________________
Ryan Sowers,
Pianova Piano Service
Olympia, WA
www.pianova.net

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#618438 - 12/08/08 06:56 PM Re: Never seen this one
rysowers Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 2472
Loc: Olympia, WA
 Quote:
Originally posted by Silverwood Pianos:
Hey some great pictures here, thanks Erus for the unusual action parts there, and Ryan for the Renner assembly, some great inventions for sure.

BDB,

The action that I showed from Schwander, has that rail too. It keeps the jacks from falling out while that action is removed I forgot about that part, and failed to snap a photo of it, thanks for the reminder.
Can we see a picture of all of the crud on top of your beloved upright? Like Ryan, I need to see if it is more crud than on mine….. ;\)

www.silverwoodpianos.com [/b]
I agree! Those were amazing pictures. The PTG foundation maintains an action model museum. I wonder if they've ever come across any of these.
_________________________
Ryan Sowers,
Pianova Piano Service
Olympia, WA
www.pianova.net

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#618439 - 12/08/08 06:59 PM Re: Never seen this one
Silverwood Pianos Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 4225
Loc: Vancouver B. C. Canada
I have had experience where a hammer would not return without the bridle tape in a certain type of action. Long time ago,may have just been an anomaly there....

www.silverwoodpianos.com
_________________________
Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."

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#618440 - 12/08/08 07:34 PM Re: Never seen this one
Silverwood Pianos Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 4225
Loc: Vancouver B. C. Canada
I have sent those pictures to Jean Jacques Trinques the Director of the AFARP in France. He was very interested in the pictures/design and I am still waiting for some info from their history centre there. Here is a translated page for that place, a museum in France.

http://translate.google.ca/translate?hl=...Afarp%26hl%3Den

Because that action was in a Canadian Mason & Risch upright, I am leaning towards the fact that it might be a prototype that did not catch on or something… have never seen another one ever here….no-one has…..

www.silverwoodpianos.com
_________________________
Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."

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#618441 - 12/09/08 12:35 AM Re: Never seen this one
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21821
Loc: Oakland
If the bridle strap helps the hammer fall back, it is because of a problem with the butt spring, which unfortunately is sometimes a design flaw in modern actions. As a matter of fact, it is common to see a broken strap when the butt spring is out of place, because then the strap is pulling the hammer back.

When an action is properly regulated and there is no excess friction, the bridle strap never becomes taut. So it cannot have any effect on playing, except for its weight.
_________________________
Semipro Tech

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#618442 - 12/11/08 04:01 AM Re: Never seen this one
johnsfsr Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/23/07
Posts: 16
Loc: Nelson, BC
That Pianophile box is supposed to have real bridle tapes in it. Perhaps he or she saw the light and is ready to do it right.
John Pengelly
The Tuning Fork

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#618443 - 02/13/09 11:22 PM Re: Never seen this one
accordeur Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 1223
Loc: Qubec, Canada
The box is from pianophile, it's full of bridle straps waiting to replace the twist ties ties. I made money on the job. The pictures were taken by me, NOT the original DIY, whom I would have enjoyed meeting.
_________________________
Jean Poulin

Musician, Tuner and Technician

www.actionpiano.ca

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#2335483 - 10/08/14 10:42 PM Re: Never seen this one [Re: accordeur]
accordeur Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 1223
Loc: Qubec, Canada
Oops wrong thread and website. Sorry


Edited by accordeur (10/08/14 11:14 PM)
Edit Reason: lostb
_________________________
Jean Poulin

Musician, Tuner and Technician

www.actionpiano.ca

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#2335539 - 10/09/14 05:58 AM Re: Never seen this one [Re: accordeur]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7904
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: accordeur
I'm a little confused here Mister Silverwood. Wax and thread? They are regular twist ties for garbage bags. Imagine the time and effort put in to accomplish disaster. The whippen is tied to the let-off screw!!!! Has to be a DIYer, and now I get paid to fix it!!!


That is may be fun, but could we post less of those horrors, there are plenty of them on many pianos.

Sure it make us feel very experienced and competent when we see that kind of stupidity, but what does it add to our forum ?

I mostly post those sort of pics when the job have been one by a so called "pro"

For instance I have some of Yamaha hammers "voiced" with the needles used to write in Braille, and the small grit to drive them.

AT last the hammers will never break a string, and no further needling ever necessary (but forget playing strong)

I ont know why we like to post those sort of things. May be because then we can trade a little of the pain we feel when looking at such horrors ?

Regards
_________________________
It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


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#2335540 - 10/09/14 06:01 AM Re: Never seen this one [Re: Silverwood Pianos]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7904
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: Silverwood Pianos
I have sent those pictures to Jean Jacques Trinques the Director of the AFARP in France. He was very interested in the pictures/design and I am still waiting for some info from their history centre there. Here is a translated page for that place, a museum in France.

http://translate.google.ca/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://www.mamane-pianos.com/nouvellepage2.htm&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=8&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3DAfarp%26hl%3Den

Because that action was in a Canadian Mason & Risch upright, I am leaning towards the fact that it might be a prototype that did not catch on or something… have never seen another one ever here….no-one has…..

www.silverwoodpianos.com


Thanks for that idea Dan, the AFARP museum is a nice place.

Finally the thread turned soon to more interesting things, I apologize for my precedent comment (but understand me, it can be boring soon, to take some time just to look at non interesting things)

Nice web site DAN !


Edited by Olek (10/09/14 06:02 AM)
_________________________
It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


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#2335732 - 10/09/14 10:23 PM Re: Never seen this one [Re: accordeur]
woodfab Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 382
Loc: Stoneham, MA
I've always wondered why twist ties come in packs of 88
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Dan (Piano Tinkerer)

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