Gotta wonder if this guy ever heard of piano supply houses. web page

Not tied to the butt, but to the let-off screw!!!!

This is EXACTLY why real[/b] supply houses don't deal with DIYers.

That would be funny, if it wasnt so pathetic!!

I'm still trying to figure what that design accomplishes...nuttin.

Supply, why do you assume that whoever did this is a DIY and not a real tech. Maybe s/he was in a hurry that particular day.

Also, I would think that any DIY could obtain most any piano part/supply imaginable through the internet. Business is business and money is money.

Best regards,

Rick

Well I looked at the picture,………. good for a couple of nightmares anyways…..

To wax that thread and stick all of those on would take an incredible amount of time. Even if the thread was already waxed, a lot longer than the proper repair. A good piano technician would know this.

Someone that completes this type of repair, in this fashion, for myself, I would not consider this a qualified technical repair. This is a band aid, and not a very good one either.

Interesting comment about the DIY’ers finding parts. It would seem that many of them are un-able to locate the correct parts Rickster, which is why a lot of them end up here looking for guidance.

www.silverwoodpianos.com

I'm a little confused here Mister Silverwood. Wax and thread? They are regular twist ties for garbage bags. Imagine the time and effort put in to accomplish disaster. The whippen is tied to the let-off screw!!!! Has to be a DIYer, and now I get paid to fix it!!!

Oh ok, it looked like waxed heavy cotton thread, on this screen. Not on my home computer right now….

Yes I like the part where it is attached for sure…. Good job there accordeur……

www.silverwoodpianos.com

No tech, even using the word loosely, would do something like that!!! The picture has DIY'er written all over it...you just need to know how to read it.

Okay, guy’s, I was just funnin a little with Jurgen . You all are right, of course. But you’ve got to give them an A for effort and a C creativity, if an F for results.

Besides, I’m no longer a DIY since I’ve tuned a piano that’s not mine. (Even if I did it for free. )

Take care,

Rick

It's called job security boyz.

Agreed, Sam...some of my best customers WERE DIYers.

I'll bet the guy even lifted the twist ties from the grocery store.

Nice pic of an ugly subject, accordeur.

I've seen a lot of that sort of stuff here too. Obviously, they have no clue what the let off button is for or that someone, someday, will need to turn it.

It's sad when they don't bother finding out how to properly do it first.

I don't know why people are so critical. It was a valiant attempt but, alas, lacked a basic understanding of how the action functioned. I remember the first time I saw a piano action and thought "how in the WORLD did they come up with this crazy looking contraption!?".

Like the thread about clients tuning their own pianos, the client is taking all the risk, their experience will increase their respect for our trade and it will likely gain us more business? I don't see a problem

I agree, when I first saw this, I was actually impressed with the persons creativity, however misguided. Creates more work and respect for us pros.

You never see a problem with it Ryan. 99% of the rest of us do. You have your opinion of it, I have mine and mine does not agree with yours.

You are right, Ricky.
Chances are some internet supplier sold the guy the twist ties in the first place!

I see absolutely nothing valiant about it Ryan. I guess some people would smell a stinky toilet and think is smells nice.

The word "valiant" to me signifies some noble effort; something of value.

Yes, a piano action can be quite charming and can be overwhelming to the untrain eye. But to give credence to an effort like the one in that photo is not valiant nor does it give any degree of credibility to the one who did it or to the one who thinks it's a valiant effort!!!

Looking at the picture again, is also seems that the perpetrator not only turned the let-off screws so that the eyes are all neatly oriented in a straight line, the let-off screws are also screwed all the way down to the rail.

I'm sure the action had an interesting feel to it.
At least there would be no blocking hammers...

I've been wondering what is in that white box with a piano keyboard pic on the side...
The address on the box is....... .....NOPHILE, Brossard J4Y 2Z2, Canada....

Could this be Canada's secret weapon in piano technology advancement?.....Canadian twisty ties....Why didn't we think if it...?

What IS that box????

OK OK OK....
Just got it...
PIANOPHILE INC.....a supply house....interesting.....

Wow you guys are harsh!
Valiant means brave, and I think anyone trying to fix their own piano is just that! It seems like some would prefer to think of this person as stupid.


I guess I've made so many stupid mistakes in my life I can't help but feel a little sympathetic.

I think youall missed the big picture. As the piano is played, the let off screw is slowly rotated by the pull of the tie. This will automatically fine tune the let off over time, compensating for wear.
The type of tie and location on the let off eye are critical.
Anyway, who needs bridal tapes unless you want to replace the action after removal? Pianos function just fine without them.
More than likely the person who did this realized that something was really wrong after he pulled the action and removed what was left of the originals and then tried to replace the action - creative at least.

Haha, Funny Gene!

I Dunno about actions functioning just fine without straps. More than once I've used straps to help hammers return on worn or poorly designed actions. The picture is a hoot, though.

Actually, I have an upright action model and just tried the twist tie repair. Believe it or not it kinda worked! (emphasis on kinda)

Gene: The bridle tapes *do* make a difference in the feel of repetition. Jim Ellis published his in-depth look at bridle tapes in the journal years ago and proved that they have an effect on repetition. Also, the action will feel sloppier without them.

There was a time when people were claiming that the only function of the tape was to hold up the wippens during action removal. This was even taught at some convention classes.

Well Bob, maybe you would like to have a look at this very strange and wonderful set-up by Schwander –Herrburger in 1868……

No bridal tape and a horizontal back check…… ha……. really something,……. and it plays well too…….. light and fast. There are about 15 pictures total there.

http://picasaweb.google.com/silverwoodpianos/HerrburrgerSchwanderRareAction#5194077692926526834

it is the only one I have ever seen in 37 yrs. of piano work...... a rare one for sure……

www.silverwoodpianos.com

Well, I certainly can't be TO serious now, can I Bob?

Another action with no bridal strap (I understand it was designed for player pianos): http://www.ptgcolumbus.org/files/page_pics_Staib.html

Check the article in this journal about that design: http://www.ptgcolumbus.org/files/Buckeye Backcheck June 2006.pdf

And there was apparently a grand action created by these people: http://www.ptgcolumbus.org/files/page_pics_StaibG.html

Back to normal actions...

Why do modern upright actions have bridle straps? For easier action removal? Were they added to assist putting the hammer back in place for better repetition?

An error in the matrix... please carry on

Does the Fandrich action have bridals?

I asked google, apparently that action has no bridals:

http://www.dreams.org/staff/composer/music/piano/fandrich-action/

I have seen an action that just had a rail behind the jacks instead of bridle straps. When the action came out, the jacks were held forward at a point where they would go over the butt felt when the action was replaced.

If the bridle straps have a noticeable effect on repetition, it would be noticed on all the pianos that have broken straps.

It does have a noticeable affect. It is more noticeable under certain playing situations such as playing slowly and during certain types of repetitious playing.

The repetition spring that connects the top of the jack to the catcher shank prevents the jack tops from dropping under the hammer butts. It also keeps a continuous mechanical connection between the player and the hammer.

If you can diagnose a broken bridle strap by playing, without removing the front board, more power to you. I cannot, and I do nor know anyone who can.

Do this experiment:

1. Unhook one of the bridle tapes.
2. Move that hammer and a neighbor to the strings
3. Release the hammers
4. See which one gets back to rest position more quickly.

They also keep the hammers from getting as far ahead of the jacks as would occur if there were no tape.

Sorry, I cannot do that without looking at the action, so it does not count. Besides, there is too much crud on top of my upright.

Sounds like MY piano!

There are many adjustments that would be difficult to diagnose on a grand action just by playing, but that does not mean they are not important or relevent.

Do this experiment:

1. Unhook one of the bridle tapes.
2. Move that hammer and a neighbor to the strings
3. Release the hammers
4. See which one gets back to rest position more quickly.


During playing I do not think this is would be valid as the hammer is rebounding faster than the sticker assembly will fall by gravity.

Hey some great pictures here, thanks Erus for the unusual action parts there, and Ryan for the Renner assembly, some great inventions for sure.

BDB,

The action that I showed from Schwander, has that rail too. It keeps the jacks from falling out while that action is removed I forgot about that part, and failed to snap a photo of it, thanks for the reminder.
Can we see a picture of all of the crud on top of your beloved upright? Like Ryan, I need to see if it is more crud than on mine…..

www.silverwoodpianos.com

While working in the shop today I had my wife unhook a bridle tape in one area of the piano. I was able to figure out which one was unhooked just by playing and not looking. Without the bridle tape there will sometimes be more space between the parts, what Darrel Fandrich has called "dynamic lost motion".

Apparently the myth that the bridle tape's only function is to hold up the wippens is still alive and well. I thought Jim Ellis closed the book on this subject when he published his study in the Journal.

I agree! Those were amazing pictures. The PTG foundation maintains an action model museum. I wonder if they've ever come across any of these.

I have had experience where a hammer would not return without the bridle tape in a certain type of action. Long time ago,may have just been an anomaly there....

www.silverwoodpianos.com

I have sent those pictures to Jean Jacques Trinques the Director of the AFARP in France. He was very interested in the pictures/design and I am still waiting for some info from their history centre there. Here is a translated page for that place, a museum in France.

http://translate.google.ca/translate?hl=...Afarp%26hl%3Den

Because that action was in a Canadian Mason & Risch upright, I am leaning towards the fact that it might be a prototype that did not catch on or something… have never seen another one ever here….no-one has…..

www.silverwoodpianos.com

If the bridle strap helps the hammer fall back, it is because of a problem with the butt spring, which unfortunately is sometimes a design flaw in modern actions. As a matter of fact, it is common to see a broken strap when the butt spring is out of place, because then the strap is pulling the hammer back.

When an action is properly regulated and there is no excess friction, the bridle strap never becomes taut. So it cannot have any effect on playing, except for its weight.

That Pianophile box is supposed to have real bridle tapes in it. Perhaps he or she saw the light and is ready to do it right.
John Pengelly
The Tuning Fork

The box is from pianophile, it's full of bridle straps waiting to replace the twist ties ties. I made money on the job. The pictures were taken by me, NOT the original DIY, whom I would have enjoyed meeting.