I've gotten a few mixed messages from various piano experts in the San Francisco area. When I moved my Baldwin upright piano, I disconnected the Dampp-Chaser system. After reading the posts here and reading the Dampp-Chaser website I don't see any reason why I should reconnect the humidifier, since I live in an area (near Berkeley) which never has low humidity and I don't have central heating. There's no heater in the piano room either.

My technician wants me to reconnect the Dampp-Chaser system but another local technician told me that using a humidifier in this area is unnecessary. Any opinions about this? The humidifier is somewhat of a "pain" to maintain and costs extra $$$ to run).

At the risk of being tarred and feathered and run out of town on a rail by some of the contributors here I'm going to say that if you don't want to use the Dampp-Chaser you're not hurting your piano by not using it. You are living in one of the gentlest areas in climate with respect to pianos, referred to once by a very respected technician/rebuilder living in Modesto as "the great piano preservation zone."

Niles Duncan
Piano technician/rebuilder, Pasadena, CA
www.pianosource.com

Welcome to the forum!

Have you measured humidity in the room at different times of the day? I lived in northern California, and the dewpoint can get high in the mornings, with condensation on rooftops. It might be important to at least leave the heater rod plugged in with the humidistat, to knock off any possible peaks of humidity. You certainly don't want condensation on the plate or tuning pins.

If the humidifier is really a pain to maintain, it's possible that it's dryer than you imagine, perhaps due to a skylight or large windows. If you have to refill the tank more often than once a month, then it's doing significant work. The cost to run is the same as a light bulb.

Another measure of the impact of the environment on your piano is how stable the pitch is. Can it be tuned in one pass each year, or does it need an extra "pitch raise" pass?

Controlling humidity is a gray scale: the more control, the better protection for your piano. You have to decide if the cost is worth the benefit. As a piano technician, I argue for the most protection for the piano.

--Cy--

I live in Northern California, and service many pianos in Oakland/Berkeley/Albany/Alameda. I haven't seen the need to install dehumidifiers in any of them.

I recommend humidity control in certain situations:

a)where the piano is right on the coast

b)the piano is in a particularly humid wooded area

c)the room where the piano is gets very damp during the winter

The fact is, it isn't going to hurt anything, because the humidistat will shut off the current when the humidity gets below 42 %. I have never found a need to recommend a humidifier.

I've checked humidity many times in many micro climates in the SF Bay Area. Even in the foggy Sunset district of SF, the humidity is a consistent 55-60%, which is fine. Typical winter (rainy season) readings are around 60-65%. I've never had a reading below 40%

I just checked my piano, which is in a duplex that has no air conditioning, and no insulation. It was so hot last week, that the thermometer on the thermostat read "OL," meaning it went off line because it was above 100 degrees in the apartment. It is at pitch!

Bottom line: it won't hurt anything to have one installed, but I don't think it's absolutely necessary.

If I am not mistaken, is it not the function of the Damp-Chaser to keep the humidity at a constant level....this is when it's most effective? In that case, I would think to just have the rods installed with it's humidistat as Cy suggested would be prudent.

The Fandrichs, who have a shop in WA, once suggested to me that everyone up in the Pacific Northwest should have at least the heating rods with the humdistat installed. I had that exact setup in my upright and it was very stable in the tuning etc, and plan to have that exact system installed in my M&H RBB before it arrives.

GP

GP, you're right, that's the cheap and prudent choice: no maintenance and little cost with just the rod and 'stat. But it's hard to generalize. As Dave says, there are many different microclimates in the SF Bay Area.

I used to live a few miles down the road from him in San Jose, and we'd sometimes get ten or more days in a row about now over 100, and we didn't have A/C. Thank goodness it would cool off at night, and then we'd close everything up in the morning. I wasn't measuring humidity then, but I'm sure the piano was baking.

Before that, I lived in LA about two miles from the ocean, and we'd get lots of condensation in the mornings. We also had a gas heater, which adds moisture to the air.

My U-1 was in California for 20 years without humidity control (did I admit that?!?), and hasn't shown any damage... yet... but when I moved to Minnesota, I sure slapped a DC in it.

For far less than the sales tax, it's cheap insurance for any piano.

I'm going to put together a gallery of my humidity damage pictures, like this one of an upright bass bridge:



There's a lot of side force on bridge pins from the strings. With humidity cycling, the bridge has split, and the pins are loose and buzzing against the strings. (It's also bad wood grain orientation.) The fix is to remove the strings, re-cap the bridge (if possible) or build a replacement (they're not parts you can order), re-notch it, re-drill and pin, and put the strings back.

--Cy--

Cy,

I'm not sure why you are showing that photo in this thread - is it from a piano in the Bay Area?

If not, it is a rather alarming photo to be posting in response to the original question!

Alameda is totally surrounded by water, yet its location protects it; it probably has one of the mildest climates anywhere.

Good point, WB; thanks for the kind words. Please don't panic, Kavena!

I quite agree; not every piano needs a DC. I mentioned my own experience in CA of 20 years without a DC as a counterbalance to my constant arguments in favor of the systems.

I'll put this gallery on my own site; it doesn't belong in this thread. Like another post about moving pianos with regular household movers, until you've seen the possible damage, it doesn't seem like you're risking much...

--Cy--

Cy,

I've edited my response a half dozen times - but you already responded!

I was trying to wordsmith my response so as not to sound too crabby.

As I said originally, I like your posts so didn't want to come across too harshly.

Your kind response to my post proves that you are a great guy!

Now I've got to run - have to catch some of those Bay Area rays...

Posts here don't get challenged unless they are challengeable. So far, all of the advice about using only the rod and stat are indeed within reason. The customer does not like to water the piano. Neither do I. But I know I must do it, just as I must water my plants. I don't enjoy doing that either but if I don't, they will die. Watering a piano is no more difficult than watering plants.

I'm originally from Los Angeles but have lived in Wisconsin for 30 years. I still service pianos in LA, however and I have long noted the difference in stress on the pianos and have wondered how people could even make a living tuning pianos since they are so stable out that way. Here, it's like what my dad used to call, "spittin' against the waves", an unending, seemingly futile struggle for which humidity control systems are the one thing that helps where no other efforts are effective.

Having said that, in the case where there is virtually never low humidity, only high, it is a reasonable alternative to just use the rod and humidistat. It might be a good idea to have the "wet" humidistat installed. It will only activate the dehumidifiers when humidity reaches a somewhat higher level than the usual calibration.

I also agree that Cy's posts are usually good and informative but the picture shown here of bass bridge cap failure is not necessarily (and most probably not) due to exposure to humidity extremes. I'm not accusing Cy of this, I'm sure he was well intentioned but this is the very type of thing that in the past, some guy who just wanted to attract attention to himself would go against what everyone else knows and put something like this up there and scare piano owners away from what they really need to do to protect their pianos.

Imagine if you were a naive piano owner and some guy carried pictures like this around to "warn" piano owners against using D-C systems. "See what DAMAGE they cause???!!!" It has happened in this forum and also in my community. I will be the very first to blow anything like that right out of the water if I can get there to do it first. Even if a photo like this is used to claim that NOT having humidity control is what caused the problem, it is not legitimate because it is not the true cause. It would have happened under the most ideal conditions.

This kind of problem is caused by nothing more than a defect in both materials and workmanship. This is obviously a low end piano and therefore there is a low end solution for it too. The bridge is not made of the high quality selection and cut of woods used in higher end pianos (either grand or vertical). Many such pianos have trouble maintaining adequate downbearing on the bass bridge (or at least that is what the manufacturer anticipated), so it was decided to put extra side bearing in an attempt to get a better and fuller sound from the bass. Unfortunately, the low end material the bridge was made of could not hold up to the strain and developed a nice crack in order to relieve itself of its misery.

You can clearly see this in the published photo. The bass bridge pins should be really in a straight line with each other, simply angled in opposite directions. It is really only the width of the bridge pins themselves which should create the "dog leg" in the string across the bridge. There should be very little sideways strain in the bridge pins. If there is, is it any wonder that the low end material could not withstand the constant stress of the string bearing against it? This was a very poor solution to inadequate downbearing. It didn't solve the problem, only created another.

This is a very common problem however. While recapping and redrilling the bridge would correct the problem and any grand or high end vertical repair or rebuilding calls for it, on a piano valued less than $5,000, it is really overkill and out of line with the value of the instrument itself. You can simply put the vertical on a tip cart, loosen the bass strings (not even necessarily completely detach them, depending on the extent of the damage), realign the pins within the crack and inject thick, gap filling CA glue to make a firm repair. (Epoxy used to be the filler of choice but CA glue is actually faster, better and cheaper). The entire permanent, functionally adequate repair could be done within an hour. The most important skill would be in controlling the application and flow of the CA glue itself.

Great post, Bill; thanks.

Does it also seem to you that in this case the grain orientation is a factor? Since the bridge cap grain is vertical, and aligned with the length of the bridge and hence the side force on it, it's more apt to split than if the grain were horizontal?

--Cy--

Not being a technician, I did noticed the slight rust on the strings...if you look closely, you can see it...I recognize it because the M&H A I have now came from the Long Beach area, by the water, and has the same rusty string syndrome, which is indicative of not having a controlled humidity environment. A String cover would have helped as well in a situation like that, where the piano is near the ocean. I am not sure an upright can utilize a string cover?

GP

Thanks soo much for all this help - all of these replies have been so interesting!

After reading your answers I conclude that plugging in the dehumidifier (which requires no maintenance) and detaching the humidifier would be adequate protection for my Alameda piano. I will also buy a hygrometer to check local humidity. I wonder whether the DC humidistat, which is 13 years old now, is still accurate.

The tuning on this thing has been extraordinarily stable over the years. My technician seemed to spend as much time talking to me as tuning the piano every year. It apparently needs a pitch raise, but only after 14 years of ownership.

My only fear: Perhaps the DC dehumidifier itself dries out the piano too much, which is why the dehumidifier is occasionally needed to bring it back into balance. I was surprised at how quickly the dehumidifier heated up when I plugged it in last night. (Humidity in Alameda is about 55% today.)

kavena

"Does it also seem to you that in this case the grain orientation is a factor? Since the bridge cap grain is vertical, and aligned with the length of the bridge and hence the side force on it, it's more apt to split than if the grain were horizontal?"

Oh yes, most definitely. The bridge does not even have a cap. The vertical grain orientation of the bridge root is generally a good thing but such a root needs a quarter sawn, hard rock maple cap to withstand the normal amount of strain imposed upon the bridge pins. But in this case, with no cap and excessive displacement of the bridge pins, the wood did not stand a chance. Swelling and shrinking may have exacerbated the problem but could not have been the principal cause.

But I'm glad you posted that image, Cy. It is interesting to note what different people perceive when they see it. Several observations lead me to believe that it is a low end piano worth less than $1500. It may, however, in fact be an Acrosonic in which case its market value versus the value the people who own it place in it may be far out of proportion. They will cherish the piano but still not be able to spend a lot of money on it. If the repair estimate is too much, they'll just accept the way it is and continue to have it tuned that way, possibly at a lower pitch. That is the reality of this kind of situation.

Here are the clues I see that tell me it is a very low end piano: rough, unsanded plate, just painted; a plain piece of vertically cut hardwood but no bridge cap (As Cy pointed out but probably not maple, probably one of the other woods commonly used like poplar. The drying, ageing and kiln preparation of these woods was a far cry from what quality manufacturer's did but even sometimes within the same company such as the case with Baldwin. On their low end pianos, it may have said, "Built in the tradition of Baldwin Grands" but the reality was quite something else).

The bridge pins are also driven to an irregular height and not planed off as they would be in higher end pianos. The twists on the bass string loops also line up irregularly. This suggests that the same irregularity in the string windings you get only a glimpse of would be present and consistently inconsistent throughout the bass section. The bass string hitch pins also appear to be at irregular angles. This indicates that some of the loops were never properly seated and may have pulled some of the pins forward, creating tuning instability, at least in the beginning of the piano's life.

The wound strings' windings that you can see are very irregular and approximate. The very first one you see from the left is the only one which is about right. All the rest are short and all three unisons are mismatched. This creates excessively high and irregular inharmonicity. How could you possibly do fine work with that? The answer is you can't. It is the primary reason I never use an ETD to tune the wound strings on any piano. You just can't count on the program to deal with what is actually there. Aural skills are a must to sort out the irregularities and arrive at the best compromise.

I also see a bit of mild rust on the strings. I can easily see how a charlatan would focus on that and the split in the bridge and blame it on "damage" cause by a humidity control system. "You see, the evidence is INDISPUTABLE!". I consider it my duty beyond anything else to jump all over that kind of thing and I surely will when I see it.

Here is what I would do to fix this problem: I would either bring in a tip cart or simply find a way to lay the piano back on some blocks so it can be lifted back up again. Loosen (1/2 turn) only the strings that are audibly buzzing, leave all others at present pitch. With a blunt punch and a small ball peen hammer, move the pins over that create an excessive looking dog leg across the bridge. Don't over do it, just try to make them look more even and give them what they really want. For the strings you have loosened, gently tap in the opposite direction to give you ultimately the proper defection the string requires.

Then, with nothing more than a fresh and small bottle of medium viscosity CA glue which you have trimmed off the cap to a very fine point and plenty of cross ventilation from a fan on high speed next to you, windows open, fill in the gaps you see in the wood. Try to avoid the strings themselves but it probably won't cause a problem if some CA glue contacts the strings. Use Q-tips to blot up any overage that you have. When all the gaps are filled, hit the whole thing with a light sprits of the catalyst (called Zip Kicker) and move away and take a break for about 10 minutes wile the CA glue cures and the fumes dissipate.

Then, put the piano back upright and bring the strings you loosened first back up to approximate pitch (a little sharp). With only a half turn counterclockwise, you may not even have to cinch the coils. Then, pull the rest of the bass up to approximate pitch. Go back down to the hitch pins and again with a blunt punch and ball peen hammer, tap down lightly all the hitch pin loops to drive down any which are not fully seated. Follow by another rough, then fine tuning of the bass. All of this could easily be accomplished in an hour for the appropriate fee and it should be a repair that is permanent and perfectly functional. If any individual problem did recur, all you'd need to do is retreat that problem.

Bill,

Looking at the photo's date and my schedule, this is most likely the piano from that picture:

Kohler & Campbell studio model 9070, 1984

I'll certainly try your fix next time. I've wondered about whether it's a bad thing to glue a string to a bridge pin or not (especially a rear pin). If it lasts, what's the harm?

--Cy--

The reason I say it probably would not be a problem is the same reason that CA glue won't "glue" a tuning pin in the hole. As soon as you move the string with the tuning hammer, whatever bond there may have been will be broken. You wouldn't do it deliberately, of course but particularly on the back side of the bridge, it wouldn't cause a problem. If it happened on the speaking length side, you might have to go dig any excess out with a sharp knife.

It makes sense that this is a K&C. It's not one of the brands I defend as being a staple American product. I have often encountered with this make, loose bridge pins in the tenor bridge too, creating high pitch, whiney buzzes. Even the low end way of fixing something like that is hardly worth the trouble on the bridge under the wound strings and behind the keybed.

I often hear people compare piano technicians to other professions like Doctor, auto mechanic, plumber, etc. I say we are most like a Veterinarian. Some of our patients are thoroughbreds, others are mangy mongrels. But just like the owners of certain pets, it's amazing how much certain people cherish something other people wouldn't even have and would do nothing or spend nothing to save. Certainly, putting a hard rock maple bridge cap on something like this would be like trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Virtually every aspect of the materials and workmanship is compromised. You could never correct everything without spending far more than the piano could ever be worth.

Here is a question for Lloyd (or anyone) with his math capabilities: In the event one encounters a low end piano with marginally split bridges and there is no desire on either the part of the technician or the customer to repair it, How much less overall tension would there be on the piano tuned at A-435 rather than A-440? How much less on a typical bass bridge?

My hypothesis is that this could make the difference between the piano being functional and staying functionally in tune or not. It has already seemed so for me in many instances. The 435 pitch is still close enough to standard for many instruments to be able to adjust their pitch to it and close enough to standard not to interfere with a normal sense of pitch recognition. There used to be an old factory trained tuner around here who did excellent work and everything from fine grands and concert tunings to spinets. He used to say, "What do you want, music or trouble?"

Unfortunately, unless you are familiar with how Dampp-Chasers actually work, or with their history of reliability, your observations regarding when yours goes on and off are not particularly useful.

I live in the foothills just east of Alameda and use a complete Dampp-Chaser system on my Charles Walter studio. This provides excellent tuning stability for me. In my experience with my own pianos, and with many others on which i've installed complete Dampp-Chaser systems, it is often not possible to prejudge whether a full system (with humidifier) is needed based on geography. The environmental conditions in particular houses, especially in the microclimates of California, can vary significantly. In some situations, a partial system (with humidistat included) is adequate. If the partial system does not do the job, then the humidifier should be added. It is easier simply to install the whole system at the outset, in my opinion.

In my experience, the humidistats used in the Dampp-Chasers during the past 20 years have been very reliable on a long-term basis. Again, the proof is in the pudding. If your piano begins to lose some of its long-term stability, then it's time to troubleshoot and to consider replacing the humidistat.

Keep in mind that in our mild California climate, the likelihood of damage to your piano (as opposed to a decrease in tuning stability) from an improperly-working Dampp-Chaser is very small. As others have mentioned, many people in this part of the country have very stable pianos with no environmental controls used.

Posted by Casalborgone:
"In my experience, the humidistats used in the Dampp-Chasers during the past 20 years have been very reliable on a long-term basis."

I do wonder about the reliability of the humidistat. When I worked in a laboratory, our equipment was calibrated on a regular basis. Nobody has checked the reliability of my DC humidistat in 14 years.

Also, it seems that the part of the soundboard that is close to the DC would be affected differently than the part farther away.... if the room humidity is very different than in the DC location.

If indeed the tuning stability is improved with a DC, might it be because the humidistat is regulating the humidity at a level somewhere other than at the "desired" 42%? If Alameda humidity hovers around 50-65% most of the year, maybe keeping the whole soundboard in that humidity range is better than altering humidity within the lower area of the piano to 42%.

These are deep questions!!?? I've guess I've started questioning the DC because I never quite trusted the little "black box".

kavena

The answer in that case is a "wet" humidistat, calibrated at a high RH than standard.

Again, unless you know how the Dampp-Chaser system works, your speculations are probably not doing you much good, nor your piano. And again, the proof is in the pudding; if your system has kept your piano very stable in tuning for 14 years, it has been doing its job very well indeed.

A little explanation may help you to understand a bit better. You can also visit the Dampp-Chaser website for more information. I think they have some of their studies available there for review.

The Dampp-Chaser is not a laboratory instrument which demands precise calibration. The Dampp-Chaser works by reducing the effect of humidity swings in the piano's environment, not by controlling humidity precisely. This works with a relatively simple device like the Dampp-Chaser because there is a lag time for the wood in the piano to absorb water vapor from the air, and to release water vapor into the air.

I just moved to my place in Alameda a year ago and the stability persisted even after 5 months without the DC. (In July 2005 my technician was surprised that it remained in tune without the DC.)

Turning it on NOW would lower the humidity 10-15% and might drive it out of tune! As well as increasing the heat in the flat...

I checked the DC site but it's not very technical. I may have missed the studies (or comments about "studies") but I'll check again. In general, it seems more helpful to see studies written up by non-affiliated researchers.

I understand from these posts that the consensus among technicians swings in favor of installing a DC in most areas in the country in most pianos. But a few of you didn't think it critical in many cases.

The Dampp-Chaser will not lower the humidity in your piano by
10 to 15%. What is critical is the equilibrium moisture content of the soundboard, which will vary an exceedingly small amount with or without the Dampp-Chaser. The heating element input rating is 15 to 25 watts. Your dog's or cat's body radiates more heat and heats your house more than a Dampp-Chaser would.

You might wait until the first rains of the fall to turn on the Dampp-Chaser. It might help suppress the small effect the change of humidity will have on your piano's tuning.

I guess the technical Dampp-Chaser stuff is on the part of the company website that is not available except to technicians. You will no doubt find all the technical information you want about Dampp-Chasers if you take the time to email the company with specific questions or search the Piano World archives or the PTG Pianotech archives.

Thanks for your comment about the 15 to 25 watts. Then perhaps something is wrong with my DC unit. The dehumidifier got MUCH hotter than body heat and I was alarmed enough to change my mind about using it. Perhaps the capacitor is defective.

If you can fry an egg on it, it is doing a REAL good job of "chasing damp" away.

There is very likely nothing wrong with your heating rod. Temperature of the heating rod and wattage input are not directy related. The heaters in Dampp-Chaser systems are designed so that they cannot cause burns.They do get hot to the touch in normal operation. I should also point out that just because your dog or cat is not as hot to the touch as your Dampp-Chaser does not mean that they are not contributing to heating your house more than the Dampp-Chaser. You may be able to understand this if you imagine having a large number of people in your house, say 50 or 100, so that your living room and adjacent areas are packed. Your house will get very warm, and you will have to be sure to open all the windows. Yet none of the people in your house will be noticeably hot to the touch.

Frankly, you would do best to simply leave your Dampp-Chaser diconnected and to have it removed from your piano at your next tuning. It sounds like you are getting quite upset about something whose operation you do not understand. Better to put all that anxious energy into playing and enjoying your piano, rather than worrying about your Dampp-Chaser. Dampp-Chasers are not all that critical in this part of the world.

Happy playing!

I think I would agree in this case, Mike. One of the most irrational statements I ever heard was from a psychiatrist who regularly administered shock therapy to his patients. He certainly never wanted to experience what he did for a living. He was afraid he would get "shocked" by his piano. One woman who is an injury attorney was afraid that when she watered the piano, an electric shock would travel up the tube and shock her.

As for the heat, the D-C unit emits no more total heat than an ordinary light bulb. Even the computer emits more total heat than that. How about all of the electronics we all enjoy? My DVR gets hot enough to fry an egg. A refrigerator also regularly pumps heat out into the room. The heat that a DC unit produces is quite negligible.

Well.... it WOULD be a telling experiment to leave it disconnected for a few years... to get a fair idea about tuning stability with and without its use.

Part of my "upset" is that I AM looking for an excuse not to use it for awhile... knowing that my technician's reaction to disconnecting it will be a bit unpleasant to deal with. But this problem - the tuner-tunee relationship - is a whole other topic!

You would'nt need a few years. About three weeks will do just fine. Disconnect it, and report back here in three weeks. Tell us how the tunings held up.

In response to Curry: Tuning held up fine after 5 months of no use, surprising my technician last year. But that was a year ago. Now, the tuning sounds just fine to me, but I don't have the experienced ear/tools of my technician.

My query here began because I have an upcoming appt. with my technician, and I was wondering whether to set up the DC before he came so it could equilibrate before his visit.

The tuning has been remarkably stable on this piano. My technician has rarely spent more than 45 minutes working on it.

Bill, yesterday I used your CA method instead of epoxy on a bass bridge crack on an old spinet, and it worked great -- thanks!

--Cy--

Great! I'm glad you could use a method of repair appropriate for the situation and find that it worked adequately.

I have a dampp-chaser on my 2004 Steinway B and I run a dehumidifier 24/7. I live in Daly City, Ca. just outside of San Francisco and about a mile from the ocean. In my experience this extra attention to the humidity level in my house has made all the difference. However, it costs about $50 a month to run the dehumidifier. Has anyone here heard of the company Humidex atlantic and if so, do you think installing one of their products would be a better way to go. They claim the cost to run their system is $3 a month. Perhaps too good to be true.

If you have the Dampp-Chaser, you shouldn't need the dehumidifier at all: that's one of the system benefits.

If it's not working well enough without the dehumidifier, get your tech to add more heater rods, or add an undercover. I like to use at least 100 watts total (which will still be a lot cheaper to run than the dehumidier: just like a light bulb). A seven-foot piano might need three or four rods.

--Cy--

Dave Stahl says "The fact is, it isn't going to hurt anything, because the humidistat will shut off the current when the humidity gets below 42 %. I have never found a need to recommend a humidifier."

The matter is that the Dampp-Chaser system comes with both a Humidifier and a Dehumiditier and both operate to control the RH at a low level such as 54 down to 48 or so on my piano. I check the two during the day and it seems to work well. Though if the room gets overheated by the Ambient Temperature the D-C system struggles to lower it much under about 59 RH. I then have to use a room de-humidifier to help matters.

Alan

Alan,

Dampp-Chaser systems are custom-configured for each installation. Some people in certain areas, like Dave, don't install the humidifier side.

Likewise, your system can be custom-configured. More or bigger heating rods can be added to let the system handle humidity better. An undercover can be added to concentrate the air around the soundboard and make the whoe system more efficient. (This is for a grand; an upright can have a back cover added.)

--Cy--

I think that people worry about this dampp chaser system to much. When pianos are built at the factories, they get put into large rooms. Then they are crated and picked up and shipped to a port. They are then put into containers that are not climate controlled and stay hold up for sometimes weeks. Then the containers are put on a ship for a 3 or more week trip across the ocean from asia or Europe. Then the containers are once again sitting at the port waiting to be trucked across the country to importers or directly to dealers. Then the pianos are at the dealers sometimes for months or years before being sold. All of this without the aid of a Dampp Chaser system. I would think that because pianos are subjected to heat, cold, dampness etc from factory to ones house, that they would start falling apart during the journey. But they don't do they.

True. And they don't fall apart due to high humidity, they just get sticky. Keys get sticky, they don't return. Damper felts get sticky as if you are playing with the sostenuto pedal down all the time. Not very desirable, is it?

If the wooden sound board is exposed to extreme low humidity for a long period of time, then it can crack. But I think this case is rare if that ever happens at all between the factory and distribution point.

You're right; they are subjected to extremes during the trip. Most Asian pianos are sealed with plastic inside their crates, so humidity doesn't change during the trip (but relative humidity changes with temperature).

However, in the last month I have seen two new pianos on the showroom floor with cracks in the soundboard. This isn't because of stress during shipping; it's because the wood wasn't seasoned properly.

Humidity swings take a long time to cause damage, generally. It's more like the difference between parking your car outside and parking it in a garage. Outside, the paint will fade and crack, the dashboard will crack, and the upholstery will fade. All of these (especially re-painting) are expensive fixes. Since people usually keep pianos much longer than they do cars, it's worth it to protect them over the long run.

There's no good car analogy with the short-term effects on tuning, though. And there's no sun damage that keeps the car from running, unlike a cracked pinblock in a piano.

Haven't you ever had doors or windows in your house stick from humidity? Or dresser drawers that are hard to open and close?

--Cy--

　Are these all true? I have been thinking one or two dozens of crated pinas are picked up by a reefer container at the factory and the temperature of the pianos are kept constant all the way until the container is pulled to the dealership's headquater building in the destination country. Of course, the door of the container may be opend for a few times for customs inspections.

---
an amateur