To all readers inc. Mr.Sumner !

The following is information I have received from
a friend who is a very long time and senior
member
of the PTG amongst other established piano tech.
associations.I will not give his name because I
have no permission from him to do so but iff I
did
many of you would know him and be aware of his
integrity.So this is not something I thought up to
upset anyone, it is the sad truth.
'Quote.
Yamaha has bought up huge forests in Maine and
Canada.Since all the good woods for piano making come from those Northern areas,that's where they go to get them ! Asia is mostly de-forested,
Russia excepted for piano woods,and Yamaha and
other asian companies are trying the same thing in Europe-mostly Germany-end of quote.
So how long before you hav'nt even got enough wood for your own use without exporting to S/Way H/burg
and that goes for all other makers of pianos-fine
instruments and even good furniture(of course
we will still have IKEA who will probably be making pianos out of what's left)So sell them your
wood,let them build the things then buy them back
getting a free motor-bike with each grand.(which
won't be much use when your oil run out not to
mention the pollution !)
Iff the Olympic games are held in China (Iran
would be better)will there be high-speed piano-
playing events?
Your's ect.
JIM SLOANE

I live in Maine, and the word "huge" would have to be qualified in terms of acreage. Maine has some pretty strict "Slash and burn" laws, so buy-cut-and-sell is well regulated. This state has no "National" forests (Government Forests). Most producing forests are in private ownership, and are therefore bought and sold largely without regulation. It's the cutting practices that come under state regulation.

Maine grows trees and biting insects in wonderous quantities! Not to worry. Timber harvesting is subject to more and more regulation. What I'd really like to see regulated is these #@&*%^$# biting insects!

This reminds me of someone complaining about a lumber company harvesting a second-growth forest. He said, "That second-growth forest will never grow back!" I didn't say anything. If you argue with an idiot, people will wonder which is which.

Sorry, second-growth post.

It is true the Yamaha Corp did purchase many hectares of northern spruce trees here in Canada, particularly here in northern British Columbia, but this part of the story is rather “dated” from the early ‘90’s or so.

Most of the large first growth forests in Canada are owned by the “Crown” ( government) which to be more accurate owned by all Canadians. The forest companies pay a stumpage fee for the lumber they cut here. But this is not the “current” or the “important” story here now.

Second growth forests are not much good for timber footage because the trees are much smaller in diameter…. Early first growth here can be 60ft. across at the base sometimes larger, so you can see the advantage. The comment “second growth not growing back” might have referred to this person’s lifetime.

Unfortunately we have had a very serious infestation of the European pine beetle. Now the provincial government of the day has been a fool largely, by ignoring this problem during the ‘90’s hoping that nature would take its course and deal with the beetle. You see the only way to kill this pest is to have sustained temp of minus 40 for more that 10 days. Unfortunately over the last 7-10 yrs. we have not had these types of temperature drops in the north here. This has threatened to destroy up to 80% of our forests here by 2013. If this pest makes it over the Rocky mountains there will be trouble for this continent as a whole. Here are a couple of articles that may help with the story, from an on-line newspaper here called the Tyee. Note the dead timber in the pictures, I have had the chance to drive through parts of the north and the stands of dead timber are absolutely staggering in their size.

http://thetyee.ca/Views/2005/08/17/BeetleFund/

http://thetyee.ca/Series/2005/08/17/BeetleBattle/
http://thetyee.ca/News/2005/10/04/BeetlePrice/

So the purchase of all the spruce stands by Yamaha may turn out to be all for naught. There is some new science available here that tells us the beetle produces a different hormone when the tree is full of pests and cannot sustain anymore. Then the other beetles move to another tree. So this may be a way to control them eventually…….

Am I missing something.....?

Dan, none of the wood that the piano beetles are eating (interior spruce, lodgepole pine etc) has any significance at all for the piano industry. The interior spruce is of no value for soundboards.

The only thing that wood may have been used for in pianos is for very cheap low end pianos, to make chip board (or beaver barf as a friend calls it) for the case parts.

Sitka spruce, the wood that the piano companies are after, grows in coastal regions and those stands are not affected (yet! touch wood!) by the mountain pine beetle.

Hello Jurgen,
I had heard that Yamaha had purchased many hectares of spruce here in B.C. I have no idea what the purchase was for, but my point was that we may lose the wood to the pine beetle previous to anyone cutting it down. So the lament from Sloane here about losing it all to the industry might end up being a moot point.

If you read some of these articles this wood is so badly damaged it is of no use to anyone even for chip board. I was never thinking of sounding boards, but your point is well taken.

Never heard the term Beaver barf.......

Dan, Beaver barf is a good description of the original post in this thread. Funny how you guys can take Beave barf make something out of it.!!!!!

Good Information.

Yeah Ron. It's called Canadian Alchemy.
Turning Beaver Barf to Gold...

Jurgen,
“Turning Beaver Barf into gold.”

Now didn’t Barry Manilow do that for a while???.......whoops….. did I type that ????????

Hey Jurgen and Silverwood...
Did you work with Eric when he was in Vic, before he went to the 'dark Side' :-) ?

I don't mean Clapton :-)

So, is somebody saying that Yamaha and others are being irresponsible with their cutting? I guess I too missed the point of the post maybe.

...'cause, where I live trees are renewable and grow back. Old growth forests should be protected, but unless everybody wants pianos made of graphite or aluminum...oh never mind.

RPD

Yeah, I tuned his guitar for him when I was young...

Oh other Eric... Can't say I worked with him - I joined the chapter he was in not long before he moved to Steinway NY. He is an honorary lifetime member of our chapter, returning regularly to give technicals here. His last one was just a few weeks ago.

An amazing technician and teacher, and a wonderfully generous human being. We will miss him now that his path has taken him to Europe....

I read about the problem of the beetle infestation with interest. I'm sure the Canadian government is working on a solution. I thought however, I'd mention what they have done here in Wisconsin about the gypsy moth.

In past years, we have been awakened early on some Spring mornings by low flying planes spraying trees. At first light, when the air was calm and moist, noisy planes flew so close it sounded like we were about to be bombed! They weren't spraying a pesticide as such but a biological agent that caused the moths not to mate and so they died out naturally.

The idea I read about, a hormone, seems intriguing. I hope something will come of it. It makes me recall when I realized one day a few years ago that all of my Summer flowers were being eaten alive but thousands of ugly, black beetles. I could even see them mating as they were destroying the flowers. I went to the hardware store and the clerk said that they were probably Japanese beetles. He pointed to a product that said it would kill them.

I bought it to put in the sprayer I used normally to fertilize the flowers. When I opened it, the most vile odor I have ever smelled came wafting out. I put it in the sprayer and when I sprayed the flowers with it, I saw the beetles cringe up and drop off instantly. They never came back.

The flowers seemed to thank me as they grew back beautifully. Of course, the poison drove off bees and dragonflies for a few days but after it washed away with the rain, the beneficial insects came back normally too.

The devastation I saw in the photos of the forests was incredible! Some urgent action is needed before those nasty bugs destroy everything and look for more!

Mr. Sumner,
I only met Eric Shandall once in front of a 1958 Chickering Grand. After 1980 I was not in Victoria much anymore, just simply to visit family that remained there. He had come to Victoria (I think ) in 1975. Never got the chance to talk to him much, or to work with him at all there, sorry I cannot give you any more info….. just confirm that he did go to the “dark side”…..

Mr. Bremmer,
We have also had the gypsy moth here in the northwest, in the mid-nineties we had the biological agent sprayed here under great protest. The agent is very effective at ridding the area of the gypsy moth larvae, but it will also destroy the butterfly population and other flying insects for a while too. So to get rid of the bad, it was necessary to have a “scorched earth” policy unfortunately.

The biggest factor here is the fact that this problem was left to its own devices for some time. Because the infection is centered around the area of Prince George in the north… this area drops down way below zero over the winter months and the false hope was that the coldness would stop the problem. This however did not happen here, we have had some of the warmest winters here in the north over the last seven years.

Now the prediction is that if not stopped, 80% of the forests here will be damaged. This may end up including the giant Sitka spruce that Jurgen was referring to that grow in the coastal areas. These coastal areas if infected do not freeze much over the winter months because of the moderating influence of the sea water. The biggest worry is for this beetle to travel over the Rocky Mountains……. When you look at a geographical map of North America, this could present problems all the way across the continent to the province of Quebec, and further into the northern states that have coniferous trees.

Yes Bill the pictures are startling for sure, but I have driven through some of the area and to see this first hand from the highway the size of the problem is truly staggering in its proportions whole hillsides completely orangey brown with dead wood. This now creates another problem for the dead wood standing provides plenty of fuel for ignition.

The hormone treatments hopefully are one way to stop the growth, I have also heard of another way of introducing a sterile mate into the species, funny though when you think about it, the irony I mean, we are trying to save the trees so we can kill them later by cutting them down for industry.

RPD,
I am not sure of the point of the original posting, but I think it was a lament for the fact that a lot of large corporations are buying up large tracts of trees for the future use of some sort. This is not just Yamaha doing this here in this area.

There is a lot of irresponsible cutting going on here. This morning, I am trying to search the archives of a local newspaper to send you a link about other rare trees that are being poached here in this area for the music industry. If I am unsuccessful in finding this article on-line, I have your P.O.Box number and will send you this article about the cutting, and the unique way the authorities are tracking down and busting the perpetrators. Also Mr. Bremmer or anyone else who is interested in this article if I can’t locate the link I will pop it into the mail for you too….. Just send me a PM with the address and zip code, or click on my web site address.

RPD, As for aluminum pianos it has already been accomplished and many years ago. Blüthner had an aluminum piano aboard the Hindenburg in 1936. This was an aluminum frame with some type of skin over the top.

Here is the link…. It is starting the 6th. Paragraph.
http://www.bluthnerpiano.com/history.html

I was glad on my return from Vienna to read some
of the more informative and serious responses to
the wood problem.Quite aside from the fact that I
knew nothing of the insect problems (but I like
the Beatles)I really was asking if it's right for
any country to sell leases on the land on which
the desired produce is found ? Once they start
digging or mining or stumping they'll end up
owning the area.

It's one thing to exchange quality with
other countries (SORRY ! I MEANT CORPORATIONS)
but dumping rubbish on each other wont help
ANYONE ! Such things as trees and forests should
allways be tended by those who have nurtured
them for generations so forget your 1st.-2cnd.
and so forth because your partners demand will
rise and the quality will fall untill everyone
buys the piano from a IKEA or WALMARKT.
I'm all for tradition so do as you like but your
best wood stays at home right? and don't sell
your beavers !
Your's ect.
JIM SLOANE

Regarding the topic of wood and pest control.
You may have sold forests which produce wood only
fit for making chipboard and matchsticks ect.
(the Scandinavians have been doing that ever since
thay stopped rowing around in long boats)but you
mark my words,it is the thin edge of the wedge !
It seems to be a race between the insects and the
international corporations which one gets to your
precious Sitka spruce first.
You don't seem to be doing very well with the
insects,I doubt that you'll do much better with
the corporations human nature being what it is.
Still,I wish you luck with both pests.
The saying in Germany is--
'Bread for the world-but the meat stays here'
Your's ect.
JIM SLOANE