Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Pianoteq
Latest Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#619753 - 07/10/08 10:54 PM Water based finishes
Playerman, RPT Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/31/08
Posts: 13
Loc: Southeast
I was thinking of going to water based finishes for pianos. I would like to hear feedback from users on results obtained, recommended brands, etc.
_________________________
Playerman, RPT

Top
(ad PTG 568) Win a Year Journal Subscription
PTG 57th Annual Convention - Atlanta
#619754 - 07/10/08 11:20 PM Re: Water based finishes
Gene Nelson Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 1464
Loc: Old Hangtown California
Have used Enduro Poly now made by General Finishes with good results.
(There is a new water based finish that I have seen that will not develop layering but I do not have the name right now - maybe Dale Fox will chime in and tell you.)
Learning how to use it was not too difficult. The solids content is very high so it builds fast. Not good to use it below 50 deg f nor on too hot of a day.
It was made to be used with HVLP and I have the conversion type gun - real HVLP is better for application in my opinion.
It can be sprayed on just about any finish except oil.
Applying it can be done all in one go - build layer, wait till it tacks and repeat until you have all that you want/need. Or a layer at a time, let it set up, sand and repeat. When doing it the latter way you need to sand at about 180 to give additional layer something to adhere to because there is no solvent effect.
If you sand through a layer it will show.
It rubs out very easily to any gloss you like.
I have only used the clear, at one time they had black but I think that it is discontinued.
_________________________
RPT
PTG Member

Top
#619755 - 07/11/08 12:22 AM Re: Water based finishes
RoyP Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/10/03
Posts: 784
Loc: Cincinnati, Ohio
I used the water based finish for a few years, before I got out of the refinishing end of things. I was using the Enduro Poly that Gene talks about. It was called Wat-R-Base at the time (7-8 years ago). I had read an article in Fine Woodworking which compared the finishes, and recommended that one.

I ordered the poly with overprint, which gave in an amber tint more like shellac or lacquer. I don't know what they have now. After learning to work with it, I really liked the stuff. I think that it was a harder finish than lacquer. As Gene said, it builds quickly. It's just different, but once you get use to it, it's good.

I did several pianos in black. It worked well enough. It had a little too much of a gray look to it, which is much the same reason many piano companies don't use polyester for a satin ebony finish. They use a polyester primer, and then spray black lacquer over top. At least that's what Baldwin was doing, and some others as well. So, it doesn't suprise me that they discontiued the black. It probably didn't look black enough for many people.
_________________________
Roy Peters, RPT
Cincinnati, Ohio
www.cincypiano.com

Top
#619756 - 07/11/08 01:12 AM Re: Water based finishes
Playerman, RPT Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/31/08
Posts: 13
Loc: Southeast
Gene, thanks for that info. Do you use filler paste or just spray on more coats?
_________________________
Playerman, RPT

Top
#619757 - 07/11/08 10:42 AM Re: Water based finishes
Gene Nelson Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 1464
Loc: Old Hangtown California
Have not used filler paste yet. If I ever do a gloss mahogany finish again I will.
The Enduro will fill grain considerably better than lacquer but it takes some experimenting.
_________________________
RPT
PTG Member

Top
#619758 - 07/11/08 08:43 PM Re: Water based finishes
woodfab Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 367
Loc: Stoneham, MA
I've never tried PIANOLAC but it looks interesting.
It's a water based wood lacquer for pianos.
_________________________
Dan (Piano Tinkerer)

Top
#619759 - 07/12/08 01:05 AM Re: Water based finishes
Sam Casey Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/05/05
Posts: 1135
Loc: SW Missouri
I've used Mohawk, PianoLac, PC Finishes and Target Coatings. Target is by far the best product in application and result. They have a spray on filler that is troweled with a wide plastic blade. I haven't had a chance to work with that yet but if it is as nice as the satin and gloss it will be a winner. Nice thing about water base is no blushing. It likes humidity in the air. HVLP is the way to go. Water clean up is GREAT and there is not the killer fumes as with stanard laquer. I prefer the way water base sands out. Almost like a powder and it does not gum paper like solvent base. Target has a wide range of products and is on the web.

Top
#619760 - 07/16/08 09:17 AM Re: Water based finishes
msks Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/24/08
Posts: 221
Loc: lawrence,KS
I have used the Target products and they are good
Got them thru Homestead Finishing THey can advise you I did gray primer and then black with clear on top of that One thing is watch out for the effect of moisture in the paint on raw veneers . they can wrinkle or bubble I would seal any areas like that first. Had a replacement music rack do that!!!

Top
#619761 - 07/17/08 02:32 PM Re: Water based finishes
Del Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/03
Posts: 5184
Loc: Olympia, Washington
Sorry -- double post. ddf
_________________________
Delwin D Fandrich
Piano Research, Design & Manufacturing Consultant
ddfandrich@gmail.com
(To contact me privately please use this e-mail address.)

Stupidity is a rare condition, ignorance is a common choice. --Anon

Top
#619762 - 07/17/08 02:37 PM Re: Water based finishes
Del Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/03
Posts: 5184
Loc: Olympia, Washington
 Quote:
Originally posted by Gene Nelson:
Have used Enduro Poly now made by General Finishes with good results.
(There is a new water based finish that I have seen that will not develop layering but I do not have the name right now - maybe Dale Fox will chime in and tell you.)
[/b]
It's called Oxford Premium Spray Lacquer[/b] and comes from Target Coatings: http://www.targetcoatings.com/. (You can order it directly from Target.) We've been using it for about five years with good results.

Each coat does chemically burn in to the previous layers. We've not seen the witness lines we commonly had with other waterborne lacquers when sanding through layers.

ddf
_________________________
Delwin D Fandrich
Piano Research, Design & Manufacturing Consultant
ddfandrich@gmail.com
(To contact me privately please use this e-mail address.)

Stupidity is a rare condition, ignorance is a common choice. --Anon

Top
#619763 - 07/17/08 04:03 PM Re: Water based finishes
Josh H Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/16/08
Posts: 1
Loc: Chicago
Very helpful and timely discussion for me as a rookie--refinishing my first piano. I was recently given an upright Lyon & Healy piano, and while it was in pretty good shape in terms of how well it plays/sounds (other than being woefully out of tune), the finish left a lot to be desired. I stripped and restained it over the last few weeks, and I'm just about to pull the trigger on what kind of finish to use. I went with a dark walnut stain, and thankfully the piano took the stain really well. So far, it's turning out beautifully. So, if I can just get the poly to go on without too much trouble, I might have something nice.

I do not have access to an HVLP, so right now my plan is to take my time and brush on a water-based poly like those described above. I have refinished hardwood floors using these type of products, but I will admit that that's the extent of my experience. Any advice would be most helpful, including how many coats are recommended, and whether a lacquer or shellac might serve me better. One other thing to note: I have small children, so a harder, more protective finish will serve me well.

Thanks in advance,
Josh

Top
#619764 - 07/17/08 06:45 PM Re: Water based finishes
Gene Nelson Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 1464
Loc: Old Hangtown California
Please try to avoid brushing on the clear finish - especially after taking the time and effort to strip and stain.
Borrow a gun or buy an inexpensive one. My HLVP conversion gun cost less than $100. and it does just fine with lacquer and water base.
I would also suggest consideration of the Oxford Premium that Del mentioned. If you have never rubbed out a water base finish before you will avoid the associated layering issues that can haunt you. Enduro Poly gives a beautiful finish but I would probably choose the Oxford for my next project.
Also, if you want a more children compatable finish you may want one that will also repair easily. A finish that chemically bonds to existing layers - like lacquer - can be repaired much easier than Enduro.
If you have used a grain filler you probably only need 3 or 4 coats. Experiment on something other than your piano if you are not certain.
Glue some walnut veneer onto something and work with it to get a feel for the product.
_________________________
RPT
PTG Member

Top
#619765 - 07/17/08 08:00 PM Re: Water based finishes
RoyP Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/10/03
Posts: 784
Loc: Cincinnati, Ohio
Thanks for the responses. I had heard that there was a waterbased finish which had burn-in qualities, but couldn't remember what it was. I have a couple pianos coming into the shop that I might try my hand at this again. It just takes alot of time. We have fewer options in the area now to contract out, so I may have no choice soon. The one guy that we have been using is now booked up for a year in advance.

Thanks for the link, Del. It looks like they also have a refinishing forum there, which could be useful.

Have any of you tried spraying plates with a waterbased finish? I haven't been brave enough to try putting bronze powder into the waterbased product, and have stuck to the nitrocellulose for that application only.

I also used an HVLP conversion gun for the Enduro Poly. It worked well.
_________________________
Roy Peters, RPT
Cincinnati, Ohio
www.cincypiano.com

Top
#619766 - 07/20/08 03:22 PM Re: Water based finishes
Duane McGuire Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/27/06
Posts: 49
Loc: Utah
 Quote:
It's called Oxford Premium Spray Lacquer and comes from Target Coatings: http://www.targetcoatings.com/. (You can order it directly from Target.) We've been using it for about five years with good results
What products/stains are you using with the target Oxford Spray Lacquer to achieve a black lacquer finish?
_________________________
- Duane McGuire
www.mcguirepiano.com

PTG Associate

Top
#619767 - 07/21/08 08:32 PM Re: Water based finishes
Del Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/03
Posts: 5184
Loc: Olympia, Washington
 Quote:
Originally posted by stieff1911:
 Quote:
It's called Oxford Premium Spray Lacquer and comes from Target Coatings: http://www.targetcoatings.com/. (You can order it directly from Target.) We've been using it for about five years with good results
What products/stains are you using with the target Oxford Spray Lacquer to achieve a black lacquer finish? [/b]
Black is, of course, the Achilles heel of waterborne finishes. I’m not completely happy with any of the black finishes available in waterborne materials. We are currently finishing a piano using PSL that is showing some promise. Target sells a black pigment that is mixed with their clear. We used that as base and build coats with a clear topcoat. The topcoat is sanded and polished. It is pretty good but not yet up to the standards of the best organic-solvent based materials. The more you polish the better it looks. A traditional sanded and rubbed finish still looks a bit gray. Not bad but, as I say, not yet up to the standards of older finish materials.

Still, this is all we now offer. For environment reasons I stopped using organic-solvent based materials some years ago. I have some samples around of what these finishes look like. If the customer wants something other than this they are encouraged to go elsewhere.

ddf
_________________________
Delwin D Fandrich
Piano Research, Design & Manufacturing Consultant
ddfandrich@gmail.com
(To contact me privately please use this e-mail address.)

Stupidity is a rare condition, ignorance is a common choice. --Anon

Top
#619768 - 07/22/08 01:33 AM Re: Water based finishes
Sam Casey Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/05/05
Posts: 1135
Loc: SW Missouri
I had to do spraying of the organic type recently. God how I love the water base! I never realized that even with good masks and ventilation how much the laquer thinner tears you up. Not so with water base. Did organic for 30 years and will never go back if I can avoid it. The key with water base is LIGHT coats. It seems counter intuitive; you don't feel like you're getting enough on. But the build is faster and better with several light coats. Must be a better solids ratio with water base. One pass at a time, let set for bit, pass again and repeat to taste.

Top
#619769 - 07/30/08 10:16 PM Re: Water based finishes
jim ialeggio Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/03/05
Posts: 599
Loc: shirley, MA
coming to this thread late with a comment and question.

comment: regarding the waterbased black lacquer color problem, Arthur Grudco is using a beautiful jet black and expensive pigment in Pianolac which rubs out absolutely beautifully...a deep black without even a hint of that gray cast often found in blacks.

question: I am committed to entirely eliminating solvent based coating in the shop. WB and the case is coming along nicely.

What about the plate? Bronzing powders in the WB coatings are a problem..No? Seems like the flexibility of the WB coatings would be a real good thing on the plate.

And the soundboard? is the relative softness of the coating a problem with soundboard function?
_________________________
Jim Ialeggio
www.grandpianosolutions.com
advanced soundboard and action redesigns
978 425-9026
Shirley Center, MA

Top
#619770 - 07/30/08 10:45 PM Re: Water based finishes
Del Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/03
Posts: 5184
Loc: Olympia, Washington
 Quote:
Originally posted by jim ialeggio:
comment: regarding the waterbased black lacquer color problem, Arthur Grudco is using a beautiful jet black and expensive pigment in Pianolac which rubs out absolutely beautifully...a deep black without even a hint of that gray cast often found in blacks.

question: I am committed to entirely eliminating solvent based coating in the shop. WB and the case is coming along nicely.

What about the plate? Bronzing powders in the WB coatings are a problem..No? Seems like the flexibility of the WB coatings would be a real good thing on the plate.

And the soundboard? is the relative softness of the coating a problem with soundboard function? [/b]
OK. Next time I do a black piano I'll try PianoLac.

I haven't found a WB clear that would take bronzing powders yet. I keep trying.

I've been using Oxford PSL on soundboards for five or six years. Works great. First coat should go on thin. Then sand lightly to get rid of the raised grain. There won't be as much as you expect but there will be some. Then spray normal coats. I use two to three coats.

ddf
_________________________
Delwin D Fandrich
Piano Research, Design & Manufacturing Consultant
ddfandrich@gmail.com
(To contact me privately please use this e-mail address.)

Stupidity is a rare condition, ignorance is a common choice. --Anon

Top
#619771 - 07/31/08 09:40 AM Re: Water based finishes
jim ialeggio Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/03/05
Posts: 599
Loc: shirley, MA
What are others using for a spray gun setup with these WB coatings. My gun is a Binks Mach II which was great with solvents, however, I question whether it is a good choice for the WB products. I find it difficult getting an "off the gun" coating with WB and this gun...micro bubbles and so on...

Jim I
_________________________
Jim Ialeggio
www.grandpianosolutions.com
advanced soundboard and action redesigns
978 425-9026
Shirley Center, MA

Top
#619772 - 07/31/08 01:23 PM Re: Water based finishes
Sam Casey Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/05/05
Posts: 1135
Loc: SW Missouri
I used a SATAJET 2000 HVLP. Run it at about 29 PSI.

Top
#619773 - 08/01/08 07:11 AM Re: Water based finishes
Steve Jackson Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/02/07
Posts: 648
Loc: Toronto
I've been using Target coatings products for a few years. I have gotten some hi-quality black finishes, the best being doing the sealing with black pigmented shellac to build, and then top coating with their polyurethane. The lacquer is as Del says, and makes a great coating. I prefer the harder material though. Polishes better and is more scratch resistant. You can use their universal sanding sealer also, available in black to build up the finish which is what I am doing now. If you use shellac, call Target coating to ensure it's ok. Must be a dewaxed. They also sell a waterborne shellac. It's real shellac but uses water instead of alcohol. I haven't tried it yet. For plates, you can use shellac with bronzing powder and top coat with polyurethane.

Steve
_________________________
Vintage Piano sales and restoration in Toronto
Exclusive Live Performance Player Systems Dealer

http://stevejacksonpianos.com

Top
#1718448 - 07/22/11 01:28 AM Re: Water based finishes [Re: Playerman, RPT]
Mark Purney Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/22/06
Posts: 373
Loc: Mesa, AZ
It's been a few years so I thought I'd revive this thread. It seems that the Oxford WB series isn't around anymore, and that Target is suggesting EM1000 sanding sealer, EM6600 black lacquer as a primer/build-up, and EM6000 clear top coat. Has anyone been using this for water-based, polished ebony finishes? The EM6600 is supposedly very heavy and viscous.
_________________________
www.Pianogoods.com
RPT @ Mesa Piano Service

Top
#1718607 - 07/22/11 11:17 AM Re: Water based finishes [Re: Mark Purney]
Del Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/03
Posts: 5184
Loc: Olympia, Washington
Originally Posted By: Mark Purney
It's been a few years so I thought I'd revive this thread. It seems that the Oxford WB series isn't around anymore, and that Target is suggesting EM1000 sanding sealer, EM6600 black lacquer as a primer/build-up, and EM6000 clear top coat. Has anyone been using this for water-based, polished ebony finishes? The EM6600 is supposedly very heavy and viscous.

I'm going to be in the very near futhre. I've yet to get a bad product from Target Coatings.

ddf
_________________________
Delwin D Fandrich
Piano Research, Design & Manufacturing Consultant
ddfandrich@gmail.com
(To contact me privately please use this e-mail address.)

Stupidity is a rare condition, ignorance is a common choice. --Anon

Top
#1718671 - 07/22/11 12:34 PM Re: Water based finishes [Re: Playerman, RPT]
Bill McKaig,RPT Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/16/11
Posts: 86
Loc: Tampa, FL
I've used Target products for many years and while I like the clear finishes, I find that once pigments are added the performance characteristics drop quite a bit. I've found this to be true with the em6600 as well as the grain filler though I have to admit its been about two years since I've used them. I test all finishes on story boards as well as on plate glass.

The other issue is with the color of the black. Its quite a bit gray (most black lacquers are). I've added black transtint to the top coats to deepen the color and that seems to help. Its a must if you top coat with em9000. The last black piano I had I farmed out to another finisher.

I'd like to add that Target coatings is a great company with excellent customer service and I use their products almost exclusively. These are problems that are inherent in all water based finishes (I've tested most of them).
_________________________
Professional Piano Technician serving the Tampa bay area. website: mckaigpianoservice.com

Top
#1718770 - 07/22/11 03:05 PM Re: Water based finishes [Re: Playerman, RPT]
Steve Jackson Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/02/07
Posts: 648
Loc: Toronto

Careful using it for plates though, as the bronzing powder reacts with the water and turns green and the finish messes up. You can use shellac for the powder, clear coat with shellac and then use wb for top coats.

Steve
_________________________
Vintage Piano sales and restoration in Toronto
Exclusive Live Performance Player Systems Dealer

http://stevejacksonpianos.com

Top
#1718984 - 07/22/11 08:40 PM Re: Water based finishes [Re: Mark Purney]
Dale Fox Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 1055
Loc: Nor California Sacramento area
Originally Posted By: Mark Purney
It's been a few years so I thought I'd revive this thread. It seems that the Oxford WB series isn't around anymore, and that Target is suggesting EM1000 sanding sealer, EM6600 black lacquer as a primer/build-up, and EM6000 clear top coat. Has anyone been using this for water-based, polished ebony finishes? The EM6600 is supposedly very heavy and viscous.


I'm doing an old M&H right now using the 6600 black for a base coat and color. I'm not terribly happy with the color or the sanding characteristics. The 6600 comes only in a satin sheen so must be top-coated with the clear gloss 6000. You will probably need a larger tip and cap to effectively spray versus the 6000 product. The addition of some retarder helps with the flow out but slows down even more the already excruciatingly long time one must wait before sanding.

As was previously stated, the additions of the flattening paste and whatever they are using for tint does diminish the performance. The satin black does not sand easily, as does the clear gloss. It takes several days before it is hard enough to not stick a nail print into the surface.

My preference would be to do what I used to do and tint the clear with Mixol #1 tint base. It doesn't seem to have nearly the same deleterious effects that the 6600 exhibit. Does anyone know of a good source for Mixol these days? They have a 500ml size that no one seems willing to stock and it is waaayyyyy too expensive to use their 100ml packaging.

Other than my issues with their idea of a black product, I love the company. Good products for the most part with really excellent results.
_________________________
Dale Fox
Registered Piano Technician
Remanufacturing/Rebuilding

Top
#1719737 - 07/24/11 01:28 AM Re: Water based finishes [Re: Dale Fox]
Del Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/03
Posts: 5184
Loc: Olympia, Washington
Originally Posted By: Dale Fox
My preference would be to do what I used to do and tint the clear with Mixol #1 tint base. It doesn't seem to have nearly the same deleterious effects that the 6600 exhibit. Does anyone know of a good source for Mixol these days? They have a 500ml size that no one seems willing to stock and it is waaayyyyy too expensive to use their 100ml packaging.

Other than my issues with their idea of a black product, I love the company. Good products for the most part with really excellent results.

I haven't used Mixol--how much to you use, say, per quart or per gallon of clear?

ddf
_________________________
Delwin D Fandrich
Piano Research, Design & Manufacturing Consultant
ddfandrich@gmail.com
(To contact me privately please use this e-mail address.)

Stupidity is a rare condition, ignorance is a common choice. --Anon

Top
#1719753 - 07/24/11 02:05 AM Re: Water based finishes [Re: Playerman, RPT]
Dale Fox Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 1055
Loc: Nor California Sacramento area
I'll look up the ratio I've used. I believe I used about 60ml per quart. That would work out to just under 7% by volume. At that rate it takes a couple passes to get good color saturation but after that I usually clear coat. Jeff Weiss said to not go above 10% as to not interfere with chemical bonding of the finish. That was several years ago and I believe it was the coating before EM6000. Since the, Target Coatings has dropped the Mixol product line and brought out the EM6600. I guess they felt like they just couldn't carry everything. Market considerations, etc?

The nice thing about the Mixol is it IS black. It also seems to stay suspended fairly well once mixed.
_________________________
Dale Fox
Registered Piano Technician
Remanufacturing/Rebuilding

Top
#1719757 - 07/24/11 02:10 AM Re: Water based finishes [Re: Dale Fox]
Del Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/03
Posts: 5184
Loc: Olympia, Washington
Originally Posted By: Dale Fox
I'll look up the ratio I've used. I believe I used about 60ml per quart. That would work out to just under 7% by volume. At that rate it takes a couple passes to get good color saturation but after that I usually clear coat. Jeff Weiss said to not go above 10% as to not interfere with chemical bonding of the finish. That was several years ago and I believe it was the coating before EM6000. Since the, Target Coatings has dropped the Mixol product line and brought out the EM6600. I guess they felt like they just couldn't carry everything. Market considerations, etc?

The nice thing about the Mixol is it IS black. It also seems to stay suspended fairly well once mixed.

I don't know how this comparee with what you've paid in the past but Homestead Finishing Products has Mixol Universal Pigments available in 200 ml quantities at about $24.
http://www.homesteadfinishingproducts.com/htdocs/Japandrycolors.htm#mixol

ddf
_________________________
Delwin D Fandrich
Piano Research, Design & Manufacturing Consultant
ddfandrich@gmail.com
(To contact me privately please use this e-mail address.)

Stupidity is a rare condition, ignorance is a common choice. --Anon

Top
#1719942 - 07/24/11 12:00 PM Re: Water based finishes [Re: Del]
Dale Fox Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 1055
Loc: Nor California Sacramento area
Originally Posted By: Del
Originally Posted By: Dale Fox
I'll look up the ratio I've used. I believe I used about 60ml per quart. That would work out to just under 7% by volume. At that rate it takes a couple passes to get good color saturation but after that I usually clear coat. Jeff Weiss said to not go above 10% as to not interfere with chemical bonding of the finish. That was several years ago and I believe it was the coating before EM6000. Since the, Target Coatings has dropped the Mixol product line and brought out the EM6600. I guess they felt like they just couldn't carry everything. Market considerations, etc?

The nice thing about the Mixol is it IS black. It also seems to stay suspended fairly well once mixed.

I don't know how this comparee with what you've paid in the past but Homestead Finishing Products has Mixol Universal Pigments available in 200 ml quantities at about $24.
http://www.homesteadfinishingproducts.com/htdocs/Japandrycolors.htm#mixol

ddf


That actually, is not a bad price. It is also a new size. I was being quoted almost that much for 100ml before. Thanks for the link.


Edited by Dale Fox (07/24/11 12:03 PM)
_________________________
Dale Fox
Registered Piano Technician
Remanufacturing/Rebuilding

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >

Moderator:  Piano World 
What's Hot!!
Our latest Issue is available now...
Piano News - Interesting & Fun Piano Related Newsletter! (free)
-------------------
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Knabe Pianos
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
133 registered (AB Forum Recital, ando, alans, 46 invisible), 1532 Guests and 15 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
75602 Members
42 Forums
156321 Topics
2295804 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Recital 35 --- Call For Submissions
by AB Forum Recital
07/31/14 10:17 PM
Hoping for some suggestions/starting point for home keyboard
by Kubla
07/31/14 10:00 PM
Brass
by Retsacnal
07/31/14 09:28 PM
Old Wurlitzer (circa 1940s) baby grand, Worth Picking Up?
by Paul678
07/31/14 07:31 PM
Piano software without sheet music
by OneSixty
07/31/14 06:05 PM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission