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Hi. This is Anson Everitt, aspiring RPT again. I think I'm on the verge of getting my first piano store gig. It's in a store that mostly sells books, videos,etc.. but they have a music department with an instrument rental and repair section and they have about 40 pianos. 13 grands and about 25 uprights. Mainly Baldwin and Hamilton. Also Hobart Cable, Falcone and one George Steck. I went in today and did an assessment of what I thought needed to be done on each of the 40 pianos. I made a map and numbered them all to make record keeping easier. They currently have a "technician" but it seems the management is ready to let him go and hire me due to his rarely being there and for not being as available. I understand these aren't the best pianos, but in my opinion, all but one needed attention right away. 6-8 of the pianos had keys that stuck and or buzzed. One piano's sustain pedal didn't work(rod was clanking around inside), and the practice felt was stuck down on another. Half of the tunings were bearable. By bearable I mean, I could play The Beatles ,Let It Be and not cringe too badly. The tunings on the other half were unbearable. Those must certainly be tuned right away. I would personally like to have em all where I can play Let It Be and just "let it be". The tunings, I mean. Of course, I'm planning on fixing all the "sticking key's ,etc.." no matter what the manager says so that will be on my proposal I'm working up. The proposal is pretty much what I think is the minimum amount that needs doing to get this raft floatin' and help the store move some pianos. (By move pianos, I mean get pianos into the hands of people who wan't to learn to play and enjoy music, if they're not doing so already). If management accepts a portion of the proposal but not all, should I do the remainder of the work anyway so the pianos WILL sell and I can get more tunings and everyone can rejoice,..........or NO?

Sincerely,

Anson Everitt

If that store sells a lot of pianos and can refer a good amount of private clients to you, then it would be worth your time and effort to work for very low prices.

Normally, in my area at least, a dealer pays half the going rate for an outside call. After that, the client is yours and you charge full price. But it is your responsibility to follow up with that client and win over the business.

For floor tunings, the rate is half again or less. Sticky keys are usually included with tunings, so don't nickel-and-dime the dealer for every little thing you do. Prep the pianos as well as you can for as little money as possible. If you think that the store owner wants to support you in the hope that he'll sell a piano or two, you're wrong.

Work at bringing customers into the store. Try to upgrade as many of your own clients as possible. The dealer may pay additional commissions to you for this (and should, in my opinion).

The payoff for working for a dealer isn't the amount of money you charge for the work. It's the opportunity to develop your skills and build your own client base. If you abuse the opportunity, it will disappear like a twinkie at fat camp.

Randy, I really appreciate your response to my question. That is exactly what I needed to hear. The experience alone of being in that atmosphere will provide great learning opportunities. I will do the most work I can for as little money as possible, without hurting myself too bad, in the hopes and expectation that we will begin to sell more pianos, generating more possible clients for me. It's a bit of a risk, but one I'm ok with taking.

"Twinkie at fat camp". That made me laugh!

Anson Everitt
PTG associate member

Don't let the dealer take advantage of you. Establish a basic price for floor tunings and service calls that the dealer can rely on. A sticky key or two, adjusting pedals, or unpacking a new piano is usually considered part of the intitial tuning and doesn't warrant additional charges.

But, if a piano needs extra reconditioning or new-piano prep, work out a price for the job, or $ per hour. If a dealer expects an extra hour to adjust lost motion included with the tuning, that simply isn't fair.

Also, and this is important, determine if the dealer will be booking private tunings for you, or if he'll just refer them directly to you. The difference is usually that he'll charge the customer full price, and pay you half.

It's worth it if you get to keep the customer, but if the dealer insists that the customer is always his no matter what, then you are working a dead-end. Do it for as long as you can stand it, then move on to a better dealer if you can.

Don't forget to charge extra for pitch raises and figure in a second tuning three weeks later for those that need pitch raises (likely all of them). Other than a quick key easing, any other work should be charged for on a per hour basis.

And I would sit down and have a coffee with the other technician to try to find out why he is not able to come into this dealer anymore and spend time there……remember you are only hearing the dealers' side of this story. Find the other side of the story..... it might give you a clearer picture of what is up there….…

Good advice so far.

Also, I would try to get an hourly rate going with the owner/manager based on the cost of a tuning rather than just a flat tuning fee. If you end up dealing with problems besides tuning--which is likely considering the pianos you will be working on--that you're not getting paid for, you lose out on tuning time.

On the other hand, you don't want to charge an excessive amount per hour if you're spending alot of time learning things at the store's expense. You want to be fair to the store owner, but you need to be fair to yourself as well.

I certainly wouldn't undercharge just to get the work. Not making enough money runs most people out of business in no time flat.

When I'm working for a dealer, (I no longer do in store tunings. It's out of store work only.) I charge my regular rates for tuning and my regular hourly rates as well for repairs..

Here anyway, it's always been standard practice to give all dealers a 20 % discount. Why, I'm not quite sure because, 99% of the time, it's my customer that I sent in there in the first place to buy the piano. I should get the tuning and not have to give a discount to retain my own client so, I'm thinking of doing away with that discount. Maybe others will follow suit, maybe not...

Jerry,

“I should get the tuning and not have to give a discount to retain my own client so, I'm thinking of doing away with that discount.”

Jerry, do you get some points for sending customers in and having them buy something?
If you get points then the 20% is fair. If you do not receive some sort of commission, then that is not a fair deal……

Good point there Dave, about the hourly rate, and having repairs interfere with the tuning times.

Also I am wondering Anson, did you evaluate all 40 pianos for no fee? Hope not…..this would have taken a considerable amount of time for you.

I spend maybe 2-3 hours doing in-store work a month. I give the dealers discounts for that and for the warranty tunings I do for them. That's in exchange for the huge amounts of referrals I get from them BESIDES the warranty tunings. It works out in the end if both parties are honest.

Anson, in your case, I'm not sure how many referrals you're likely to get from the dealer, because it sounds as though the dealer isn't doing much volume. Nonetheless, it's work, and an opportunity to learn. It's a good way to get off the ground.

Yes good points Dave agreed. It is important when learning to strike a balance between the learning part and the actual work part. All of it seems to be learning really in the end. My intention was to make sure the fellow thinks he has some worth, because if he does not, people will see this and not have any inclination to value him either. From experience on that one….. I think a lot of us have had……

Yes, get off the ground is right!

anson

The evals took me a little under two hours. I found numerous things that needed fixing if I were to even consider buying one of those buggers, and I mean buggers. The pianos are located in a bookstore and they are cheap, chinese, Baldwins, but there's no way I'm buying a piano with keys that go down but don't come up. The sustain pedal HAS to work. The practice felt must work. On the grands, I don't want to hear damper wire buzzing against the strings. So far, these are basic things a monkey could fix. But all 40 pianos need tuning now. If I charge half price and get them all done this week, the "dealer"(I call him "dealer" because he's a bookstore owner), will owe me $1200-1500. I'm guessing he hasn't spent that over the course of two years!
This is my fourth year as a piano technician. I only began tuning for pay about two years ago part time and last week completed my 51st piano tuning. I currently own and operate Anson's Handyman Service and I'm loving it. Bathroom and kitchen remods, basement finishing, home repairs and my specialty is fine finishwork,(handrails, mantels, moldings). Great pay and decent hours but hard on the back.
I love pianos. Always have. This is my first push to make this my major occupation. I'm sure I'm gonna have to "try it out" for real to see if I really love being a technician. I don't want to sell myself cheap but you can see I am fairly new. I'm still chromo tuning from AO up using SATIII, which is what the former tech did only with RCT. It ain't the best tuning, and I know it. I really need some private lessons with a good tuner who can tune by ear and also knows his ETD's. No one around within a two hour radius willing to help. I will probably solicit help from a local chapter member in Salt Lake City or surrounding cities.

Anson Everitt
aspiring RPT

As a student of the Randy Potter School of Piano Technology, if I adhere to his suggestions, I'll charge $20 less than the going rate in my area as long as doesn't leave me with less than $60. Also, I would schedule a follow-up tuning after 90 days to make sure the tuning was to the customers satisfaction. Quite a lot of work I know. But it would really build my name. That is, if I had my tunings where I liked them better. This chromo-tooning is starting to suck. I mean, yes, it sounds better than what was there but not nearly as good as it could.

Anson Everitt
aspiring RPT

Of course, the $20 less thing is up to a certain # of pianos. After like, 250, I raise it up $5, another 500 tuned, add 5 more dollars and so on until I'm up there with the big boys. YEAH!

Anson EVeritt

Very good Anson,

You have the right attitude for sure. Keep up the good work. If you are already critical of your own tunings you will be a good technician. Part of being the best is being scared of second place. Just keep going……

Anson, you do have the right attitude for sure. Try to find a PTG meeting somewhere in your area that you can attend. Great place to learn for nothing..

Dan, No, I do not get any type of commission. Just the tunings from my clients that were my clients in the first place. That's why I don't like it.

Another suggestion for store techs is to get the agreement in writing. I was able to do that for one store via an email exchange with the store owner. Just say "per our conversation, I'm confirming our agreement - here are the details as I understand them" Keep the email exchange in file. Any modifications should be confirmed via email as well.

Anson said:

Of course I don't know exactly what you hear in the SAT III's AO and up tunings you don't like, so I can only offer some observations based on my own experience with it:

Generally the worst-sounding part of the FAC tunings, to me, is the bass. That's not to say they all come out bad, but enough of them do that I'd never waste time starting in the bass when I'll likely have to alter that section later anyway -- particularly the low bass. Yes, I know the tension-related arguments in favor of the AO and up approach, but doesn't sound trump all that?

So, when using the SAT, I first set my temperament in the same sequence I use when tuning aurally, running most or all the same checks. Then I tune down to the bass-tenor break (or at least to the end of plain wire), then on up through the treble. Only then do I do the bass, working downward using aural checks as I go. If the FAC tuning sounds okay I'll stick with it; if not, I'll either deviate as needed or just turn the SAT off and finish by ear.

I realize you may not be very familiar with aural tuning and checking yet, so what I'd like to mention to you is that there's a method to tune electronically, called "direct interval tuning," that allows you to customize your octaves electronically to where your ear likes them (this is discussed in the SAT manual, btw). Even if you don't know exactly what you're looking for, with this method you can try different things until you discover what sounds best.

When I use direct interval tuning it's mostly in the low bass, but also sometimes to produce a specific amount of stretch in the treble. One of the SAT III's strengths is how good it is at direct interval tuning. Another strong suit is the ease with which one can tune step-by-step with it, following an aural tuning sequence and system of checks. With its Double Octave Beat Adjustment feature, it's quick and easy to increase or decrease the FAC program's amount of stretch as one goes.

There are units now that often do better calculated tunings than the SAT's FAC tuning (my stark and honest opinion), so if someone wants an ETD that will generally do the best job with no help from the ear at all, the SAT's not the best for that. But, if one knows how to work with the machine using the ears, it's a strong and useful tool very well suited for that.

If you're a Potter student, you may know enough to study and make use of the parts of the SAT's manual that deal with direct interval tuning and general use of aural skills and checks. There's a huge amount of material in there, which you may already be familiar with.

I apologize if the above is already old news for you. If you have any questions about using the SAT this way go ahead and ask, on here or privately.

Disclaimer: I don't use the SAT exclusively, and when I do it's often just to put a few finishing touches on an aural tuning. I also have RCT and Verituner.

Good luck with your dealer work!

Jeff

Wow, what a gold mine! You fellas don't know how much I needed some encouragement. Thank you! I feel I've found a trusted source for advice and information. What do I do about the guilt from not being able to offer anything in return for your help? If proximity weren't a problem, I'd offer to re-tile yer bathrooms or something.

Yes, the bass does sound wacky when starting @ A0 tuning up. I want to start with the temperament but without my ears attuned to hearing those beats and doing those checks, it takes a half a day. And the SATIII doesn't seem to be able to do the checks for me. So why even have it? That must mean I need to learn aural tuning and learn it fast. I can finally hear the beats in most of the intervals. It's the sequence that's getting me. Not that I don't get the sequence of say the Coleman temperament or the Potter F-A, but doing it with the SAT and checking and adjusting, there's where I could do with some private lessons. I do best, one on one, watching then doing, asking some questions, watching again then doing again. Wow, pretty soon I'm tap dancing or juggling whilst riding a unicycle or even shooting a dime-sized grouping @ 100 yards. Tuning is definitely taking longer than most things I've endeavored. Problem is, unlike when I juggle, when I tune, I'm expecting to get paid and the customer expects the best tuning. My problem is I desperately need to physically see and touch and do something in order to learn it. Especially if it's a see, touch, and do sort of activity. Oh yeah, hearing might be involved too. LOL. I've read that dang manual and re-read it again. I'll probably read it again tonight, but those instructions just don't do it for me. The section written to help explain how to use the double octave beat feature seem completely useless to me. I go back and forth, reading and pushing buttons like a madman. NOthing! No click. I need realtime instruction as its happening. So Jeff, would you like marble or engineered counter-tops on that new kitchen I'm doing for you? I can take a bus to Indiana and be there in the morning.

I've thought about getting RCT. The fellow who tuned our piano up until he suggested I get Randy's course uses RCT. He's the same cat that just might get bumped if I get the job tuning pianos for the book store. He was never there and the music store manager complained it was hard to get him to do tunings for clients who had bought a piano. I know the first part is true because I have been stopping in periodically for the last three months to see if any of those 40 pianos improved. No change. Also the manager looked me up in the yellows and asked me to do a repair and a tuning for a client 'cause she couldn't get the current tech to do it. I called this person and asked him what was up. He seemed oblivious to the fact the pianos were in bad shape and that the owner and manager were looking for someone else. He said he doesn't care what I or the other two tuners in the valley do, HE has plenty of clients and HE is always busy.(going to pharmacy school) He suggested I get on the phone and make lots of calls like he did his first few years. ......I've never called anyone before. My work comes to me, the same way people call wanting a new kitchen. Word of mouth. Sure there's the occasional odd one that pans out through a phone book ad but most of those people call only to find out my services aren't free so they mess up their drywall and have to pay me even more to fix it down the road. I'm what you call an "un-do-it- yerselfer". Anyhow, I did like the tuning with the RCT and that was a cromo-tune also. My wife even liked his tunings and she's a very picky pianist from Japan.

Anson Everitt
PTG associate member