Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Gifts and supplies for the musician

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad) Pianoteq
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
116 registered (AmateurBob, angga888, AllanH, 88fingers88, Anita Potter, anotherscott, 39 invisible), 1350 Guests and 8 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Page 5 of 5 < 1 2 3 4 5
Topic Options
#621137 - 04/30/08 09:35 PM Re: Different Kinds of Tunngs Can Affect Tonal Brightness?
Jeff A. Smith, RPT Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/01/03
Posts: 476
Loc: Angola, Indiana USA
 Quote:
Originally posted by Bill Bremmer RPT:
Shortly after that, I began to explore non-equal temperaments. I found a way to really combine having the desirable contracted harmony where it should be and let the tight sounding RBIs fall where they should be among the pure 5ths. To me, that kind of compromise results in a far more pleasing piano all around as opposed to applying one rigid rule across the board.

I encourage you to explore, nevertheless, Lucas Mason's book and whatever Isaac comes up with that I can translate from the French but please do keep in mind what I said. I've been there, done that and found something better. That was over 20 years ago now and I personally would never choose to tune a piano the way that Lucas Mason nor Bernhard Stopper suggest. [/b]
Thanks for your candid thoughts, Bill.

I've only tried to aurally tune an unequal temperament once. It was one of your EBVT sequences. I liked the way the center sounded pretty well, but I seemed to lose control of the treble octaves. Part of the problem -- as I saw it -- was I didn't have any checks accurate enough to take the place of what I do when tuning the treble in ET -- monitor evenly progressing beat rates of chromatically-ascending RBI's. I know it's just as important in treble tuning to see how the note being tuned lines up with SBI's below it like octaves, double and triple octaves, fifths, twelfths and nineteenths. But I guess for me the chromatically-ascending RBI tests are something I rely on pretty heavily to maintain consistency. I don't currently see how they can be applied to unequal temperaments, or how something similar can take their place.

I'm interested in learning how to aurally tune unequal temperaments, but unless I get a handle on this problem I'm not inclined to spend much time with it. Using an ETD would solve this problem, I'm sure.

Any thoughts? (I know this is way off-topic, but by now we all are anyway.)

Jeff
_________________________
Jeff A. Smith
Registered Piano Technician
Indiana, USA

Top
(ad 568) PTG Convention 2015 Denver
PTG Convention July 15 to 18 Denver
#621138 - 05/06/08 11:18 PM Re: Different Kinds of Tunngs Can Affect Tonal Brightness?
Gadzar Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/15/06
Posts: 2074
Loc: Mexico City
Maybe the book of Owen Jorgensen?
_________________________
Rafael Melo
Piano Technician
rafaelmelo@afinacionpianos.com.mx

Serving Mexico City and suburbs.

http://www.afinacionpianos.com.mx

Top
#621139 - 05/07/08 08:10 AM Re: Different Kinds of Tunngs Can Affect Tonal Brightness?
UprightTooner Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/21/07
Posts: 839
Loc: North-East US
Jeff:

I was hoping Bill would respond to your post.

Although I’ve never intentionally tuned other than ET ( :rolleyes: ) , I’ve thought along the same lines as you are. How do you check your treble octaves with RBI progressions when tuning UT? The only answers I can think of are either: don’t, instead rely solely on octave checks; or be so intimate with the non-ET temperament that you know what the RBI progression should sound like.
_________________________
Part-time tuner

Top
#621140 - 05/08/08 05:02 AM Re: Different Kinds of Tunngs Can Affect Tonal Brightness?
Blackheath Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/29/08
Posts: 6
Loc: London UK
back to the original question. Do this simple experiment, it only takes a minute. Take just one note on a piano that has not been recently tuned and tune it at the pitch you find it! that's all,.. just reset the tuning pins. Now listen to how it compares with its neighboring notes. If you are not convinced, take a weaker or duller note in the middle register (there's always one) and reset the pins on that one and lend an ear to how it compares. Then, and only then, go have a cup of tea.
_________________________
professional tuner-tech

Top
#621141 - 05/08/08 03:02 PM Re: Different Kinds of Tunngs Can Affect Tonal Brightness?
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7929
Loc: France
 Quote:
Originally posted by Blackheath:
back to the original question. Do this simple experiment, it only takes a minute. Take just one note on a piano that has not been recently tuned and tune it at the pitch you find it! that's all,.. just reset the tuning pins. Now listen to how it compares with its neighboring notes. If you are not convinced, take a weaker or duller note in the middle register (there's always one) and reset the pins on that one and lend an ear to how it compares. Then, and only then, go have a cup of tea. [/b]
Even simpler, move a little a string, with a pencil, pushing on it near the agrafe or capo d'astro (the string does not really move, but is disturbed).

Listen if the tone differs

Same brushing the strings with a brass rod (always near the termination)

Anything done will change the tone.
_________________________
It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


Top
#621142 - 05/09/08 03:34 AM Re: Different Kinds of Tunngs Can Affect Tonal Brightness?
Blackheath Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/29/08
Posts: 6
Loc: London UK
Yes, my point exactly, Kamin. I was respecting the original questioner and confining my thoughts to the effects on tone of tuning only in the generally accepted sense of the term.
These changes in tone are often dramatic and only last a few days, even moving only one string has its effect, as will playing one note quite loudly on a piano that has not been played heavily recently.
The change is towards more power, depth of tone and brilliance of attack. I have, so far, not been able to reduce any of these by simply tuning. Any suggestions? other than perhaps another cup of tea.
_________________________
professional tuner-tech

Top
#621143 - 05/09/08 04:51 AM Re: Different Kinds of Tunngs Can Affect Tonal Brightness?
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7929
Loc: France
Blackhealth ,

That may be part of the explanation why some pianists notice when somebody played their piano


yes the cup of tea seem the good answer !

To be taken with moderation ! That recall me in Normandy 20 years ago if in a pub you wanted a coffee without the little glass of apple alcohol, ("calva") you had to tell so, so you ordered : "a coffe "without". (opposed to the "normal coffee)

But it was raining all day long, no climatic changes yet , I where young and cute !
_________________________
It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


Top
Page 5 of 5 < 1 2 3 4 5

Moderator:  Piano World 
(ad) Yamaha CP4 Rebate
Yamaha CP4 Rebate
Shop our Store for Music Lovers!
PianoSupplies.com is Piano World's Online Store
Please visit our store today.
Composer Statuettes
(ads) PD - WNG - MH
Mason & Hamlin Piano Factory Tours
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Seiler Pianos
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Nocturne Op 9 No 1, bar 15 how to play
by briandang
05/22/15 08:30 PM
What to check for when buying a used DP?
by Nimi1
05/22/15 05:40 PM
String levelling issue?
by Chris Warren
05/22/15 04:59 PM
Someone PLEASE tell me this is a joke...
by Svenno
05/22/15 03:42 PM
Looking for a short showpiece for an encore
by Svenno
05/22/15 03:01 PM
What's Hot!!
New Forum for Selling Your Products or Services
--------------------
Historic Piano Documents
--------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
Forum Stats
79,377 Registered Members
44 Forums
164,253 Topics
2,409,317 Posts

Most users ever online: 15,252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
Sheet Music Plus (125)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2015 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission