Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Pianoteq
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
#624884 - 04/01/04 04:10 PM Do you tune by ear or machine?
Bob Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/01/01
Posts: 3876
Just wondering how many out there tune by ear or machine? How many do both? How many of you switched from aural to electronic? Why did you switch?

I have always tuned by ear, however there are times when I wish I had a machine.
_________________________
www.PianoTunerOrlando.com






Top
(ad PTG 568) Grand Action Regulation in 37 Steps
Grand Action Regulation in 37 Steps
#624885 - 04/01/04 06:54 PM Re: Do you tune by ear or machine?
Ron Alexander Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/17/03
Posts: 1292
Loc: North Carolina
Bob, I tune by ear. I too sometimes wish I had one of the newer ETD's. Years ago I had a Sanderson Accu-tuner, but seldom used it.

I hope this thread does not lead to the the ever raging debate of which is best: aural or machine. I know excellent tuners who do it both ways.

Regards,
Ron
_________________________
-----------------
Ron Alexander
Piano Tuner-Technician

Top
#624886 - 04/02/04 12:41 AM Re: Do you tune by ear or machine?
BDB Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21663
Loc: Oakland
I tune by ear. I've looked at ETDs and they have always been so much more clumsy than tuning by ear that I have never had any desire for one.
_________________________
Semipro Tech

Top
#624887 - 04/02/04 06:06 PM Re: Do you tune by ear or machine?
TomtheTuner Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/29/01
Posts: 806
Loc: Melbourne, Florida USA
I can tune by ear. I have passed the PTG test jsut one point below CTE level. I use the Rayburn CyberTuner of PodketPC for all pitch raises and some tunings. I use the Sanderson
SAT 111 for the rest. Most of the time I set the sequence up exactly as if I were tuning by ear. I could go out every day and tune 4 pianos per day by ear, but during the time I save by using an ETD, I can spend time doing touch up regulation or voicing at no charge to the customer and deliver a much more professional and inclusive service than any aural only tech that I have ever followed behind.... oh, and by the way , I have tuned over 30,000 pianos.
_________________________
Maker of the TCHAMMER
www.thomasccobble.com

BUSY IS BETTER THAN BORED

Top
#624888 - 04/02/04 06:26 PM Re: Do you tune by ear or machine?
Ron Alexander Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/17/03
Posts: 1292
Loc: North Carolina
Thomas, sorry but I can't resist. I'm sure you are an excellent piano tech, providing the highest caliber of professional service. 30,000 pianos says you possess the highest credentials.
But I take issue with your point about following behind any aural only tech. I take as much pride in my ability to tune a piano to very very high standards, as much as you take pride in your professionalism. I do not have one thing against the guys who use a machine. It always amazes me that 8 out of 10 pianos techs I know honestly believes they are the only one who truly knows how to properly tune a piano. And 5 or 6 out of 10 wouldn't know a concert quality piano tuning if they heard one. I am in no way implying you or any other tech who posts here, are one of these 5 or 6 out of 10. But why must we bicker and slam each other over this issue. I get steamed enough fixing other people's sloppy work, some who tune aural, others who use a machine.

Again, please do not construe my comments as negative toward you or method of tuning.

Regards,
Ron
_________________________
-----------------
Ron Alexander
Piano Tuner-Technician

Top
#624889 - 04/03/04 09:56 PM Re: Do you tune by ear or machine?
TomtheTuner Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/29/01
Posts: 806
Loc: Melbourne, Florida USA
Rjalax said ""But I take issue with your point about following behind any aural only tech. I take as much pride in my ability to tune a piano to very very high standards, as much as you take pride in your professionalism.""

I said ""I could go out every day and tune 4 pianos per day by ear, but during the time I save by using an ETD, I can spend time doing touch up regulation or voicing at no charge to the customer and deliver a much more professional and inclusive service than any aural only tech that I have ever "" So I never said I could tune better than you , I said I had plenty of time left over to do minor regulation and voicing that EVERY other Aural Tech I have followed did NOT do.
_________________________
Maker of the TCHAMMER
www.thomasccobble.com

BUSY IS BETTER THAN BORED

Top
#624890 - 04/03/04 10:07 PM Re: Do you tune by ear or machine?
Bob Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/01/01
Posts: 3876
Tom - How much time on average does an ETD save you?
_________________________
www.PianoTunerOrlando.com






Top
#624891 - 04/03/04 11:03 PM Re: Do you tune by ear or machine?
reblder Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/21/01
Posts: 1237
Loc: Sherman Oaks, Calif.
I'm a "hybrid" tuner, using both the Verituner as well as my hearing to do the job. And while I can do a strictly aural tuning, my preference is to always use the Verituner(which I use to determine pitch for the first string in unisons).

Mark Mandell

Top
#624892 - 04/03/04 11:07 PM Re: Do you tune by ear or machine?
TomtheTuner Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/29/01
Posts: 806
Loc: Melbourne, Florida USA
Bob wrote""Tom - How much time on average does an ETD save you?""

Just tuning I can service a piano in about 35-40 minutes. That leaves me 20-35 minutes to clean, or voice, or touch up the regulation
_________________________
Maker of the TCHAMMER
www.thomasccobble.com

BUSY IS BETTER THAN BORED

Top
#624893 - 04/04/04 11:21 AM Re: Do you tune by ear or machine?
Bob Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/01/01
Posts: 3876
Tom Wrote "Just tuning I can service a piano in about 35-40 minutes"

The ETD time savings is an advantage for Tom. For my tuning fee, a customer gets about 1 hour 20 min of my time. An easy to tune piano, close to pitch takes me about 50 min by ear. A pitch raise/tune (as most are) takes about an hour. A piano with strings that hang up takes longer.

I use the balance of time to vac the dust, fix and adjust what I can.

I wouldn't mind a SMALL, COMPACT, CHEAP ETD that sets a good quick temperment, especially for spinets or school tunings.
_________________________
www.PianoTunerOrlando.com






Top
#624894 - 04/04/04 02:35 PM Re: Do you tune by ear or machine?
BDB Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21663
Loc: Oakland
I don't think that I could get a string properly set in less than 10 seconds from the time I take the hammer off one pin to the time to take it off the one I am tuning. I might allot 35 minutes for a piano that I've tuned the day before, or that I know has been kept under good conditions, but I'm not going to do it for a piano that I haven't seen for quite some time.
_________________________
Semipro Tech

Top
#624895 - 04/04/04 07:18 PM Re: Do you tune by ear or machine?
Ron Alexander Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/17/03
Posts: 1292
Loc: North Carolina
I agree with BDB's statement that I do not believe I can get a string stablized in less than 10 second from the time I take the hammer fom one pin to the next. On a piano maintained under good conditions that I have tuned before, I can do the tuning in about 50 minutes. On one that needs a pitch raise or one that I have not tuned before I usually take about and hour and 15 to an hour and 30 minutes. But within this time frame I adjust the regulation if needed and needle hammers (especially at the break points) if needed. As a matter of practice, I will also vac or do minor cleaning after I tune the piano. I usually return quiet to the home within an hour to an hour and a half.
I am not interested in "production line" tuning, so I tend not to schedule more than 4 pianos a day. This way I can give complete attention to the piano, always be on time (of utmost importance) and give the customer the highest quality tuning/service.
_________________________
-----------------
Ron Alexander
Piano Tuner-Technician

Top
#624896 - 04/04/04 09:59 PM Re: Do you tune by ear or machine?
TomtheTuner Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/29/01
Posts: 806
Loc: Melbourne, Florida USA
I give up you can have the last word, I dont want it
_________________________
Maker of the TCHAMMER
www.thomasccobble.com

BUSY IS BETTER THAN BORED

Top
#624897 - 04/04/04 11:22 PM Re: Do you tune by ear or machine?
Bob Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/01/01
Posts: 3876
When I tune by ear, I tune the interval, then use my key banger (a bass hammer glued to the end of a dowel rod) to smack the key very hard. This usually sets the string to a place I don't want, and the process is repeated two or three times till the string and pin are set, and a heavy blow doesn't change the string.

With an ETD, the heavy blow can be done right from the start, without playing an interval, which means a time savings of several seconds on each string. I would assume this is where Thomas makes up some time. Temperment setting with an ETD is probably done within one min. By ear, a temperment sometimes takes me 5 mim. A two octave concert temperment might take 15 min. This would be another ETD time savings.
_________________________
www.PianoTunerOrlando.com






Top
#624898 - 04/05/04 12:57 AM Re: Do you tune by ear or machine?
BDB Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21663
Loc: Oakland
I don't understand how setting the string by ear is different than with an ETD. If the string doesn't stay where you want it by ear, how come it will with an ETD? For that matter, I can't understand how you can "tune" an interval when the string isn't set. To me, a string is tuned when it is set at the proper pitch.

For that matter, I don't understand how anyone could ever do other than concert quality tuning. This point was driven home to me many years ago when I was tuning a piano for the wife of one of my college professors. When I finished, she told me she was glad I could come, because her cousin was coming to play with the symphony that week. Actually, it was both Claude Frank and Lillian Kallir playing together.
_________________________
Semipro Tech

Top
#624899 - 04/05/04 08:55 AM Re: Do you tune by ear or machine?
Bob Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/01/01
Posts: 3876
Most of my customers wait too long between tunings, therefore a "concert quality" tuning can not be achieved in one sitting even with a pitch raise. The piano simply isn't stable enough. It might sound good when you leave, but it won't always be stable. The pitch of the average school piano in Chicago changes 50-100 cents winter to summer - again not possible to do a "concert quality" tuning in one sitting. In September I have to lower the pitch 50 cents. By January, I raise the pitch 50 cents. Is it frustrating?? You bet, but thats how it is.

For a "concert quality" tuning in Chicago, it requires pitch raising or lowering and tuning two days before, then a second tuning the day of the concert. Even then, the tuning holds for the concert only. Pianos might be more stable in Oakland -I suspect the humidity is a bit more constant.

BDB wrote: I don't understand how setting the string by ear is different than with an ETD.

Please re-read my previouse post - time savings are by not playing as many notes while tuning.
_________________________
www.PianoTunerOrlando.com






Top
#624900 - 04/05/04 02:52 PM Re: Do you tune by ear or machine?
Manitou Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/08/02
Posts: 1044
Loc: Colorado
I use the SAT-III.
I think what Bob was implying by an ETD speading-up the "string setting" is because not only does your ear locate the problems, but your eyes also can now play a part in observing string movement.

I seem never to spend less than 1 hour for a tuning (ranging from 60-90 minutes) and another 25 for a PR. I tend to only schedule 1-2 pianos per day and reserve 1-2 hours a-peice for regulation and voicing. This to me, is much more rewarding then 4-5 tunings.
_________________________
Manitou - Pianist - Technician

Top
#624901 - 04/05/04 10:18 PM Re: Do you tune by ear or machine?
donluis Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/01/03
Posts: 92
Loc: guayaquil ecuador
repair...rebuild...etc...for my is very import, and I very happy when I listen, when I look..the piano for my repair..for my tunning...Ħ..then I am a piano technician...I tunned by ear only...but I am I piano tunner too...I think the piano technician is other profession, very different to the piano tunner...ĦĦĦor no?

Top
#624902 - 04/06/04 01:51 AM Re: Do you tune by ear or machine?
BDB Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21663
Loc: Oakland
I simply cannot believe that a piano will vary by an entire semitone due to humidity. It is far more likely that the calibration of an ETD would be off. I have tuned relatives' piano on the East Coast, and they haven't gone out that much, even with a year or two and a change of seasons between tunings.

The last time I tuned four pianos in a day, I could barely move for a couple of days afterwards. Three is my limit.
_________________________
Semipro Tech

Top
#624903 - 04/06/04 08:08 AM Re: Do you tune by ear or machine?
Bob Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/01/01
Posts: 3876
BDB said: "I simply cannot believe that a piano will vary by an entire semitone due to humidity"

Our humidity in Chicago changes more than on either coast of the USA. Some years are worse than others, depending on the weather. Some pianos, especially school pianos will be 50 cents sharp in late August due to high humidity and lack of summer air conditioning and 50 cents flat in February due to low humidity, and steam radiator overheating. At one college, the grand pianos have 3/16" soundboard cracks in winter. These close up in summer. A hot, sticky summer followed by a very cold winter is the culprit.
_________________________
www.PianoTunerOrlando.com






Top
#624904 - 04/06/04 10:09 AM Re: Do you tune by ear or machine?
RonTuner Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 1665
Loc: Chicagoland
"I simply cannot believe that a piano will vary by an entire semitone due to humidity. It is far more likely that the calibration of an ETD would be off"

Yikes! What ETD in use today varies by even 1/10th of that amount? Even the cheapo needle tuners don't shift by any appreciable amount. They may be set wrong from the factory, but that's another story... (tuning forks, however...)

50 cents may be on the extreme side, but 25-30 cents is common. Less in the bass, and more in the low tenor. (Another Chicagoland vote)

I've used quite a selection of machines over the years, currently the Verituner. However, that being said, I've always used the machines for one string and then set the unisons by ear. I never thought that someone would set all the strings by machine, but I recently met someone who did. Two hour tuning minimum...

Even though I trust my Verituner, on "tough" pianos I still will check the octaves going down into the tenor break. On very few instruments, I've made some adjustments. You may know some of those instruments with wound strings creeeeping up into the temperament octave...

Ron Koval
_________________________
Piano/instrument technician
www.ronkoval.com
@ronkoval

my piano videos:
http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=drwoodwind


Top
#624905 - 04/06/04 12:37 PM Re: Do you tune by ear or machine?
BDB Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21663
Loc: Oakland
 Quote:
(tuning forks, however...)
Mine came from Chicago! It's a fine old Deagan. You can't get anything half as good today. Still, I do check it against other forks I have.

I was talking to Bobby Hutcherson about Deagan the other day. He visited there many years ago. He said that the guy who tuned the tone bars for vibraphones. He worked in a basement room three stories underground. After getting the bar to pitch, he would work on the harmonics. Each bar would take many days to tune. All done by ear, of course, since the tuner was blind.
_________________________
Semipro Tech

Top
#624906 - 04/06/04 09:31 PM Re: Do you tune by ear or machine?
Bill Bremmer RPT Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/21/02
Posts: 3271
Loc: Madison, WI USA
To comment on the many thoughts being brought up in this thread:

I've been tuning for 35 years and tuned for over 20 of them entirely by ear. When I first got my Accu-Tuner II (which I am still using) in 1991, I found it to be terribly cumbersome. I kept thinking to myself that I could do it "faster, better and cheaper" by ear and for about two years, that was true.

Eventually, I did learn to use it to my advantage and although it does help get an ordinary tuning on an ordinary piano done more quickly, I still consider the main benefit to be the reduction of overall stress.

Tuning qualities: Not all pianos are created equally and so the attention paid to each one depending on the circumstances can't be expected to be the same either. I normally tune and service 4 pianos a day and I think many people who are professionals do too. However, there are many factors: extended service on any given instrument, long distances between customers, weather, amount of demand during peak or slow season.

Recently, I tuned 10 pianos in one day for a solo & ensemble event at a high school. I started at 9 am and was done just before 5 PM and took about 45 minutes for lunch. They were all on the high school auditorium stage and the stage hands opened them up and put them back together for me. I showed them how to do minor repairs and adjustments while I kept hammering away. The following day, I tuned 4 more and took the boys out to lunch and took off early on that Friday and for the rest of the weekend. It was hard, yes but the Accu-Tuner, ear plugs and stopping occasionally to stretch and massage my arm made it possible and tolerable. I wouldn't want to do that very often.

I may also on another given day, spend the entire day preparing a piano for a concert. Even if all I have to do is tuning (which is rarely the case), I could still spend 8 hours getting a tuning as close to perfection as I know it can be and also be stable. When I use my Accu-Tuner, I never use it's calculated tuning program, the FAC. I prefer to use the Accu-Tuner to measure and store what I determine to be my goal by ear. So, essentially, my tunings are still aurally determined but the Accu-Tuner helps manage a difficult job. One analogy might be that of an accountant who uses a calculator. The accountant can add, subtract, multiply and divide but the electronic device helps manage and store a large amount of data.

Stupefying pitch volatility: I live about 150 miles from Chicago on an isthmus between two lakes. While plus or minus 50 cents is about as bad as I've seen, unprotected pianos do go drastically out of tune in this climate, from one extreme to the other. Pianos with climate control or under other well managed conditions do much better.

The school pianos are the most frustrating. You just know the poor kids hardly ever hear a piano that's really in tune at standard pitch but there are a few exceptions and they are remarkable: well placed pianos that have humidity control that is kept operating and properly serviced. Those pianos have a professional quality sound at all times. Mny of the others have the cracks that you can see through in winter and which close in summer. They make me ask myself, "Why am I even doing this?"

For the 26 years I have been tuning in the upper midwest, I have routinely accepted the fact that I will always have to tune each piano at least twice. When I go back to Los Angeles where I grew up, I wonder how people can make a living tuning where the conditions are so mild? The last time I tuned my brother's piano (which does have humidity control) in Huntington Beach, it had been 4 years since it was previously tuned and took all of 15 minutes to get it done. It just hardly needed any adjustment at all. My sister's Kimball Studio on the southern end of Los Angeles, the piano we all grew up with and which I first learned to tune on has no humidity control but it is in an interior room, away from sun and drafts and barely needs adjustment when I see it about every other year.

Yet here in the upper midwest, conditions are very volatile. The concert grand I have taken care of since 1992 at the community college theater *always* needs a pitch correction. I usually go in with the idea that I will have to tune it 3 times to get a tuning that is good enough for a concert and I know it will be good for only a day or two at best.

It's all relative to the circumstances.
_________________________
Bill Bremmer RPT
Madison WI USA
www.billbremmer.com

Top
#624907 - 04/07/04 08:07 AM Re: Do you tune by ear or machine?
Bob Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/01/01
Posts: 3876
Bill, great post. Well said.
_________________________
www.PianoTunerOrlando.com






Top
#624908 - 04/07/04 12:08 PM Re: Do you tune by ear or machine?
BDB Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21663
Loc: Oakland
What a luxury to have an entire day to prepare for a concert! I usually have to do it while the lights and sound are being set up, often right after the movers have delivered it. The first time I got a CFIIIs, there was packing material still on it, so I wouldn't be a bit surprised if the previous time it was tuned was in Japan. But it was SO much better than the old CFIII!
_________________________
Semipro Tech

Top
#624909 - 04/07/04 08:21 PM Re: Do you tune by ear or machine?
TomtheTuner Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/29/01
Posts: 806
Loc: Melbourne, Florida USA
Don Luis dice"--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
repair...rebuild...etc...for my is very import, and I very happy when I listen, when I look..the piano for my repair..for my tunning...Ħ..then I am a piano technician...I tunned by ear only...but I am I piano tunner too...I think the piano ..."

I know that in Latin America piano tuners and piano technicians are different occupations. Here in the USA It is required that a piano technician is also a piano tuner
_________________________
Maker of the TCHAMMER
www.thomasccobble.com

BUSY IS BETTER THAN BORED

Top
#624910 - 04/07/04 09:52 PM Re: Do you tune by ear or machine?
donluis Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/01/03
Posts: 92
Loc: guayaquil ecuador
Thomas, the hand and the ear walk together in the piano tuning..this is very important. In my country don´t have a piano technician school, piano tuner and piano technician is one.

Top
#624911 - 04/07/04 10:43 PM Re: Do you tune by ear or machine?
Bob Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/01/01
Posts: 3876
As an example of Chicago humidity, I recently tuned a Yamaha studio, moved from the humid gym to a drier, small theater 2 days (they said) before tuning. The outside temp had been 60 F all week. The piano was 25 cents flat at tuning on Saturday (a smaller room is usually less humid than a large room and the outside temp had dropped 20 degrees.) On Sunday morning, the outside temp dropped another 25 degrees to 15 F. The call came in on Monday, "the piano is out of tune."

On Tuesday, I raised the piano another 15 cents. On Wednesday, the outside temp was back in the 60's with rain. The call came in again, "the piano is out of tune again, we are moving the stage Steinway into the room instead." On Friday, I raised the pitch on the stage Steinway 15 cents.

The hvac system in this college sucks all air from the outside. Humidity inside goes up and down like a yo yo. Cold dry is overheated, and the winter humidity is only about 8%. The roof top humidifier was disabled years ago because the stage curtains got mildew one summer. (I doubt if the humidifier was even on in the summer, but thats their excuse). So Pianos here are 50 cents sharp in August, and 50 cents flat in February.

Most schools are not quite this bad, but humidity changes definately keep us busy here in Chicago.
_________________________
www.PianoTunerOrlando.com






Top
#624912 - 04/09/04 10:05 PM Re: Do you tune by ear or machine?
Eric Gloo_dup1 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/05/03
Posts: 43
Loc: Richfield Springs, New York
Here in central New York State, I find pianos to be much like the Chicago pianos I've read about in this thread - amazing pitch swings.

This morning's tuning is a good example. A 1909 Everett upright. I tuned it last October, had to lower the pitch. The woman called me 2 weeks ago, wondering why the bass had gone so far out of tune. When I arrived this morning, I was glad to find the bass had actually stayed fairly close to pitch. The rest, however, had dropped about 50 cents from A-440.

In October, the action was nice -- played well. Today, all I heard was click, click, click, rattle, rattle, rattle. Loose flange screws, some hammer heads coming unglued, too.

Piano sounded great when I left. I'm sure it will sound pretty bad by the middle of June, if not before.
_________________________
Eric Gloo
Piano Technician

Top
#624913 - 04/10/04 01:17 AM Re: Do you tune by ear or machine?
Ralph Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/09/01
Posts: 1300
Loc: Delaware (slower/lower)
Just a thought. If you tune by ear, do you end up with well temperament or equal temperament and how would you know?
_________________________
Do or do not. There is no try.

Top
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >

Moderator:  Piano World 
What's Hot!!
8 Live Ragtime Piano Players on the Cape!
-------------------
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Knabe Pianos
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Pianos of Downton Abbey
by Almaviva
Yesterday at 11:58 PM
Learning a piece under a deadline, good results?
by ChopinLives81
Yesterday at 10:05 PM
Gors Spangenberg
by PhilipInChina
Yesterday at 09:28 PM
Help with Korg M1
by bonesy
Yesterday at 09:12 PM
Screw stringer parts needed
by tenspan
Yesterday at 08:58 PM
Who's Online
87 registered (anotherscott, Almaviva, Anticlock, 25 invisible), 1129 Guests and 19 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
76620 Members
42 Forums
158431 Topics
2326632 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission