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#628231 - 05/26/08 09:11 AM Re: fools a plenty!
Ron Alexander Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/17/03
Posts: 1292
Loc: North Carolina
Hear, Hear Richard...very aptly stated.

I think I need to move to Sidney. Around here, any consultation with any of Mr. G's above mentioned professions are not free. I'd love to call a dentist, plumber, lawyer, or any professional for free advice. But I dont know any who will assess the problem over the phone.
The plumber comes out and takes a look for a fee. He will fix the problem for a much larger fee.
The dentist or lawyer will gladly see you in his/her office. But then you will pay a whopping office visit fee. Be prepared to hand over a bundle for the work they do. Yes, why should professionals in the piano industry be treated differently.

Very few things in life, that are worth having are free!!!!
_________________________
-----------------
Ron Alexander
Piano Tuner-Technician

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#628232 - 05/26/08 10:25 AM Re: fools a plenty!
Silverwood Pianos Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 4187
Loc: Vancouver B. C. Canada
Richard,

I would have to agree, Richard this is it in one sentence. Or was that two??

Roy 123

Yes you are correct. Now maybe you could pop on over to the thread “A435” and start from the top of page two and read the rest. Come back and tell us your opinion as to whether or not ANYONE should have to tolerate reading some of that garbage. The thread is fine until this DIY’er chimes in and starts giving all his benefit of stringing a birdcage…………………….

Jeff,

Thanks for letting us know that you are not interested from just skimming. Maybe you would like to go back and actually read the whole thread. You may just change your mind………

Ron,

Yes I agree totally. The free assessment is worth everything you pay for it. I don’t know of any professional person that gives a free appraisal on any item.

Two free things are worth having. Air, and life,………… oh, and enough money to pay your taxes…………….
_________________________
Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."

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#628233 - 05/26/08 10:56 AM Re: fools a plenty!
Roy123 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/20/04
Posts: 1708
Loc: Massachusetts
 Quote:
Originally posted by Silverwood Pianos:
Richard,


Yes you are correct. Now maybe you could pop on over to the thread “A435” and start from the top of page two and read the rest. Come back and tell us your opinion as to whether or not ANYONE should have to tolerate reading some of that garbage. The thread is fine until this DIY’er chimes in and starts giving all his benefit of stringing a birdcage…………………….
[/b]
No one's forced to read or respond to any thread that is not interesting or pleasing to him. No one has to tolerate anything--just pass the irritating stuff by.

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#628234 - 05/26/08 11:51 AM Re: fools a plenty!
Silverwood Pianos Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 4187
Loc: Vancouver B. C. Canada
Good stuff here Roy123, it is hard however to anticipate the blindsiding that some received there on that A435 thread. Further, I think what the result is when this type of thing happens, the technicians here start grouping the DIY’ers here collectively into that one mental group. Then the next one comes along with a legitimate problem, and gets crucified because of the former experience. So I guess I am expressing the old “one bad apple story”.

You are correct. We as technicians posting here are going to have to selectively “weed out” the offensive ones that not only want help, but then spit back in return. I wonder what kind of help they will expect in the future, by demonstrating behavior like this.

David-G,

My apologies, I did not mean to ignore your posting. Your points in the posting are well taken and considered…..especially the parallel to Roy123 in the fourth para. Also the last sentence is quite encouraging….. this is the one that I forget sometimes…………………..

Cheers to you both.

Rickster,

You have mentioned that I might be of a differing opinion if I had the opportunity to hear the results of one of your tunings. I am hopeful that I am incorrect in my assumption they are not.

Maybe when you stand in your garage you do look like a car…………………….. all the best with your tinkering there……
_________________________
Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."

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#628235 - 05/26/08 12:00 PM Re: fools a plenty!
Sam Casey Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/05/05
Posts: 1135
Loc: SW Missouri
There are many industies plauged by amatures. My wife is a nurse of 35+ years. Routinely she hears about "sugar diabetes," a conditon that technically does not exist. Lowes and Home depot earn millions selling lumber, plumbing and hardware to non-pros. Autozone sells to "shade tree mechanics" like me. How many true craftsmen buy "Craftsmen" tools?

The boasts and projected arrogance of a poster who admits limited knowledge and experiance are a sign of weak character, poor personal adjustment and inter-personal skill. When that same person offers tech advise they are merely being foolish, just as if we were to authoritively advise brain surgery techniques. We run into that type in everyday life, no matter the issue, and it they are best ignored.

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#628236 - 05/26/08 12:14 PM Re: fools a plenty!
Silverwood Pianos Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 4187
Loc: Vancouver B. C. Canada
Sam,

Thanks for your input on this one I’ve always enjoy your unique point of view. I have family too in the medical field and have heard about the sugar diabetes.

Ignoring them is tough sometimes especially the advice thing. Then a tech somewhere has to spend time to undo the misinformation and the resulting damage. I guess this is what keeps the bottom line in good shape right?

You are a “shade tree mechanic” too?? I guess we are DIY’ers on the Auto Forum………. Oh dear…..
_________________________
Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."

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#628237 - 05/26/08 12:24 PM Re: fools a plenty!
Rickster Offline


Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 8395
Loc: Georgia, USA
Ron:
 Quote:
Rickster,

You have mentioned that I might be of a differing opinion if I had the opportunity to hear the results of one of your tunings. I am hopeful that I am incorrect in my assumption they are not.

Maybe when you stand in your garage you do look like a car…………………….. all the best with your tinkering there……
Hi Ron,

I’m afraid I don’t follow your most recent comments. I’m not sure if they were meant as a complement or an insult. No matter though, I’ve learned that words can mean a lot or they can mean nothing, depending on whose mouth they are coming out of.

I know my piano tunings sound great to me (and everyone else that hears and plays my pianos) and that is all that matters.

By-the-way, I’m 5’9”, 220 lb’s and can bench press 300 lbs; I may be a little overweight but I don’t think I look like a car yet. Maybe one day.

I will admit though that I jumped into this thread without reading the A435 thread. Oh well, I guess it’s good to get some of these pent-up feelings out into the open every once in a while \:D .

This is a great forum and I attribute some of my accomplishments and meager piano tech skills to some of the information I have gleaned from this great forum.

Best regards,

Rickster
_________________________
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel

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#628238 - 05/26/08 12:34 PM Re: fools a plenty!
eddie twang Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/16/08
Posts: 132
Loc: east yorks,england
listen guys,if A DIYer asks me a genuine question ,say about "how should l keep my ivory keys clean","how often should my piano be tuned" etc, l have no problem at all in giveing free,good advice and if someone is a rookie tech just starting out l would go out of my way to offer advice and encouragement to help sort out a problem(we all had to start somwhere,and l can tell you my old mentor wasnt very happy with me when l took it upon myself to clean a sound board with methylated spirits!).what l wont do is humour someone who asks "l am going to re string my erard grand how do l make a german eye?".when you say this is not for an ameteur another DIYer pipes up saying "oh ignore the pros.if you follow the reblitz book to the letter you will be fine".as anyone who has worked on erards will know you have to be at the top of your game to re build one of those monsters,and you know however good you are you are going to come across problems applenty(esspecialy the early ones)yet l see one person is still telling us what type of wire they will restring there piano with(yet they dont know how to make a german eye!) and a whole host of ridiculous questions and worse still people are still giving tips and advice!,and when it all goes "pear shaped" you can bet your bottom dollar it will be a case of"well thats what a tech off the forum told me to do".

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#628239 - 05/26/08 02:20 PM Re: fools a plenty!
Silverwood Pianos Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 4187
Loc: Vancouver B. C. Canada
Very good Eddie and you will get no argument from me on these points. I think we are coming from the same place using different words. And the last point is the best of all. Yes I did this, but I am not responsible the piano forum made me do it.

Rickster,

This should be easy for a smart fellow like you. I was presuming that your tuning was so so as a do- it- yourselfer. I am hopeful that I was incorrect in my presumption… see that was easy.

Now let me see. I am 5’11” 235, ride 52 miles a week; train with resistance training (weights) can press 425lbs. and teach high level (elite, open 5.0 and higher) tennis on the off days, four times a week. Played pro circuit tennis for 7yrs.
I can lift a 5’6” grand up a flight of stairs by myself. I don’t look like a car I look like a truck. Now I don’t know what any of this has to do with a piano forum.

Oh the only other thing I might have to mention is the fact that you are quoting a fellow called Dan.

I think your Freudian slip is showing on that one there………….
_________________________
Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."

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#628240 - 05/26/08 02:33 PM Re: fools a plenty!
Sam Casey Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/05/05
Posts: 1135
Loc: SW Missouri
I'm 5'9" 225 and can press a Guinness Stout, (room temp)with one hand. Or a St. Emillion grand cru, preferably circa 2000. Or 18 year old Glen Livet. Or, with great finesse, eat a Big Mac while driving and not drop a sesame seed.

Dan my wife keeps telling me I'm too old and fat to move pianos but the damn things won't move themselves.

I used to ride but got out of the habit. Need to get back into but it seems the only time availible is at night and then I can't sleep after 20 mile run. Have a Cannondale T-2000 touring bike.

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#628241 - 05/26/08 03:08 PM Re: fools a plenty!
Silverwood Pianos Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 4187
Loc: Vancouver B. C. Canada
Sam,

The Blavenie is much heavier than the Glenlivet. Try the Balvenie Doublewood. I can’t lift a warm Guinness only the cold ones which seem to be much much lighter.

You know I keep yelling at the pianos to leave, but they don’t seem to move along here either.

Nice bike!! Sam you have to get riding again. No time except for night?? How about a headlight? You don’t need to sleep, heck you are a piano technician. We don’t sleep, we don’t’ require this type of horizontal activity.
I got rid of the Italian job I purchased in the 90’s darn thing cost me more than 2k….. kept the old Meile racing bike, just changed the wheels for stronger ones with a tube, so the tennis bag is not too heavy for the frame. The late Jim Meile made a good machine.

The sesame seed thing……not even one Sam????. My o my that is a remarkable talent you have………

So if I got the SSP,(Sesame Seed Police) down there to search your car they would not find even one seed????

Cheers ….. gone to work, no holiday here today….. have a good one all
_________________________
Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."

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#628242 - 05/26/08 03:23 PM Re: fools a plenty!
playerpiano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/19/08
Posts: 83
Loc: New Jersey
I'm 5'3", weigh 120 pounds and run 4 miles daily. I can barely move my little upright piano. Now what?

I have trouble believing that the posts in this threads were written by adults. This is so foolish. Anyone who wants to post his/her advice can and anyone who does not wish to do so, need not reply. What is so difficult???

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#628243 - 05/26/08 04:08 PM Re: fools a plenty!
Piano Guy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 400
Loc: Southern Ontario,Canada
The problem, playerpiano, is also simple. While experianced poster, can ignore anything they want, there could be thousands who merely view the forum, read advice given by someone who really doesnt know, and think lets try. They have no way of knowing really who is who.
_________________________
Richard, the"Piano Guy"
Piano Moving Tuning & Repair
From London ON to Fort Erie ON

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#628244 - 05/26/08 04:23 PM Re: fools a plenty!
Roger Ransom Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/19/05
Posts: 1239
Loc: SouthWest Michigan
Basically it sort of comes down to this.

This is a public forum and anyone can post anything they want to and probably will. You really can't stop that unless a moderator intercepts every message, analyzes it and decides whether it should be deleted or posted.

Short of that, the only way to be certain you only get posts from people who meet your requirements is to have a closed forum with some type of membership criteria. You already have that with the PTG don't you? Then why are you here at all?

I have been tuning pianos for about 30 years part time having been taught by my dad who was a tuner years ago at the Everett Piano Factory. I have also done minor repair work over the years. I don't know if that qualifies me as a pro or not, I don't belong to the PTG. I have asked a couple questions in the past with good results but hesitate to anymore for fear of offending a "real" technician.

Can't you just choose to ignore posts or topics you don't like and participate in the ones you are interested in? It seems simple to me.

That's the way all public forums work.
_________________________
Laugh More
Yamaha G7 - Roland FP7

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#628245 - 05/26/08 05:06 PM Re: fools a plenty!
Rickster Offline


Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 8395
Loc: Georgia, USA
Dan:
 Quote:
Oh the only other thing I might have to mention is the fact that you are quoting a fellow called Dan.
Okay, Dan, I stand corrected on the name. Sorry about that. (You know, Ron and I are almost neighbors as the crow flies.) \:D

Anyway, it sounds like you do look like a truck and a truck can run over a car so I won’t say anything else other than to have a great day my friend. \:D

Oh yea, one more thing, I have a nice aluminum frame Schwinn Hybrid that rides very well when I have time to ride. However, I’ve gotten to the point where I spend my exercise time playing my piano instead of exercising. Of course, it's good for the mussels in the arms and hands. ;\) \:D

Best regards,

Rickster
_________________________
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel

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#628246 - 05/26/08 05:58 PM Re: fools a plenty!
Silverwood Pianos Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 4187
Loc: Vancouver B. C. Canada
Hey Rickster,

Forget the mistake on the name, it is a small error and I have people calling me worse than this all the time. It is after all only a name. There is no need to apologize….

There car/truck thing was supposed to be a joke…. It is from an old story about a Christian guy…………..

Don’t worry about it and the fitness thing……………. although I am of the opinion that I would rather see you riding your bike than sitting and posting on your system. A Schwinn is a good one…… use it ok?

Playing the piano is good exercise too, Rickster.

Carry on and cheers…….
_________________________
Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."

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#628247 - 05/26/08 06:19 PM Re: fools a plenty!
Ron Alexander Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/17/03
Posts: 1292
Loc: North Carolina
Alas, falsely accused again!!! Not Guilty Rickster!!! It t'weren't me!!!!

But though I didnt write what you accused me of...I have to admit I was thinking almost the same...hehe. But feel no despair...I remember 25 years ago, when I tuned my first few, I was thinking "Hey" this is great too. But looking back they were not very good tunings. But we learn if we keep at it.

If you are truly passionate about pianos and working on them, I still challenge you. Find a mentor, join the PTG. Everyone started somewhere.

When all is said and done, the best way to get rid of DIY'ers is to make piano technicians of them. Some will make the grade, some will fall out along the way, forever humbled by the experience!!!!! That's my hyposis and I'm stickin' to it!!!! Calling all DIY'ers...COME OUTTA THE CLOSET!!! Declare yourself, find a mentor, and join the PTG!!!!

Great thread Eddie!!!! You did good!!!!
_________________________
-----------------
Ron Alexander
Piano Tuner-Technician

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#628248 - 05/26/08 06:49 PM Re: fools a plenty!
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6828
Loc: Grand Rapids Michigan
Hehehe, I'm 6'2". 245 and I can press a beer to my lips quite nicely with very little effort whatsoever. So, ya better watch it! \:D I can also bench press 12 of those lil suckers into a fridge for future use. Ok, did I lighten you guys up a tad?

Cool down dudes. \:D

To start with, I'd like to say that I don't have a problem with Rickster. In fact, I rather enjoy teasing him if nothing else. \:D And he, me... Tit for tat as they say.. I can take a good jab in the ribs too... He seems genuine, is honestly interested in learning as much as possible about pianos and could turn out to be a great tech some day.

Now that may not be what some of you wanted me to say but, it is how I feel about him, anyway. ;\)

There are many newbies in here that want to learn about pianos, tuning etc. If they have a genuine interest in learning and actually learning it as a profession, fine. If they are only interested in being a DYI then, I probably just won't answer the question. If everyone else did likewise, problem eliminated. But, that won't happen either. As mentioned, it is an open forum regardless of whether or not we like it.

Now on the other hand, if someone calls me on the phone wanting advise on how to fix their own piano, I flat out refuse to help them. I'm not interested in creating a greater problem, wasting my time for nothing, nor am I interested in fixing the problem later on when they finally give up on it.

The real DYI'ER types can easily be ignored. We don't have to answer them. In fact, most often, I choose not too.

I think a lot of the problem stems from the total lack of knowledge that the general public really has about what reallllllly goes on inside of the piano. They think, it's simple. They think, ask, and expect an easy cheap fix. They think, have it tuned, problem solved. Most do not realize there are thousands of moving parts in there. So, in a sense, having many of them read here is a good thing in that many now know the difference. \:\)
_________________________
Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.

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#628249 - 05/26/08 07:02 PM Re: fools a plenty!
Ron Alexander Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/17/03
Posts: 1292
Loc: North Carolina
Well, Jer since you are starting a group hug, let me say I honestly dont have a problem with The Rickster. We have had our jabs at each other, but I am not one to hold grudges; never have, never will. 'Sides he's a Jawga boy, and I've never met anyone who wasnt very nice in Georgia.

Also, I'm 6 ft 1/2 inch in me stocking feet, and weigh in at about 215 pounds. I will be glad to lift the brews to the refrigator to you guys, but I never touch the stuff. I know a rarity these days. Never acquired a taste, I guess!!!!!! I'll do the driving, guys...bottoms up!!!!!!
_________________________
-----------------
Ron Alexander
Piano Tuner-Technician

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#628250 - 05/26/08 07:07 PM Re: fools a plenty!
Sam Casey Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/05/05
Posts: 1135
Loc: SW Missouri
Rickster the mark of a true professional tuner with decades of work and thousands of pianos tuned is a deathly fear of meeting those 1st 20 customers. When I think back 30 years of what I thought was skilled or even passable it gives me chills. It's hard to explain to a newbie but trust me, piano tech is a deep, deep pool and tuning much more subtle than meets the eye.

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#628251 - 05/26/08 07:38 PM Re: fools a plenty!
Rickster Offline


Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 8395
Loc: Georgia, USA
Several weeks ago a lady where I work says to me, “I understand you are learning to tune pianos”. I say, “well, I am learning to play the piano as well as tune, regulate and voice my own pianos”. She says, “I have an older Baldwin upright that I have had for years and it is so out of tune that I am ashamed to call a real tuner to tune it; I was wondering if you would like to come over and try to tune it for me before I call a regular tuner; I’ll pay you a little something for your time”.

I say, “well mam, I’m flattered that you would asked me to come over and tune your piano but I have to say that tuning pianos is a lot more difficult than most people realize; there is nothing quick or easy about it; there are almost 250 strings that have to be adjusted to tension, synchronized and stabilized and it is time consuming, tedious, and can be extremely challenging”. She says, “oh, I didn’t know it was so hard; I thought since you were learning to tune you could learn on mine” \:D .

I say, “again, thanks for the opportunity but it would probably take me 3 hours or more to do a pitch raise and fine tuning and there are risks of string breakage or worse from having to raise the tension after not being tuned for so long and I just don’t have the time and would not want to risk ruining your piano”. She says, “well okay, I guess I’ll just have to call a real tuner”.

The moral of this story…..

I don’t envy what you guys do day in and day out. I do envy your knowledge and expertise ;\) .

Definition of envy: a feeling of grudging admiration and desire to have something that is possessed by another. \:D

Best regards,

Rickster
_________________________
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel

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#628252 - 05/26/08 08:44 PM Re: fools a plenty!
Ron Alexander Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/17/03
Posts: 1292
Loc: North Carolina
Rick, you should have done it. I would see if she still needs it done. What have you got to lose, and she can always call a tuner. She may end up with a better sounding piano, and you with another one under your belt.

Years ago, when I was in school, I almost passed up a chance to tune for a music teacher. I didnt think I was good enough to tune for a piano teacher. But I was encouraged to give it a try and I did. I know now, it was only a passable tuning. Like Sam said, we all live in fear of those first 20 or 30 we did when we started.

But the piano teacher, liked it enough to call me for the next three years. She passed away, and the piano went to her daughter in a city too far for me to travel to.

You cant hurt the piano. You dont have to raise pitch. Tune it, and then raise pitch if the strings, bridges, and plate seem okay. What have you got to lose, if she has three hours.
_________________________
-----------------
Ron Alexander
Piano Tuner-Technician

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#628253 - 05/26/08 09:35 PM Re: fools a plenty!
Rickster Offline


Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 8395
Loc: Georgia, USA
Thanks for the encouragement, Ron! It was real tempting not to take her up on the opportunity and the challenge (yet ;\) ). I feel that I still have a lot to learn.

See, I’m not a “know-it-all”. \:D

Best regards,

Rickster
_________________________
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel

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#628254 - 05/26/08 09:47 PM Re: fools a plenty!
Ron Alexander Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/17/03
Posts: 1292
Loc: North Carolina
Nope, I know you're not a know it all.

We all have a lot more to learn, some more than others. Do it. Tuning is like swimming, you gotta dive in, just be careful where you dive!!!!

But this sounds like a good opportunity. The piano hasnt been tuned in years, about anything done will probably make it sound better.
_________________________
-----------------
Ron Alexander
Piano Tuner-Technician

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#628255 - 05/26/08 10:20 PM Re: fools a plenty!
Dave Stahl Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/06/07
Posts: 1645
Rickster,

I think you're hooked. You've got the right mentality, that's for sure.
_________________________
Promote Harmony in the Universe...Tune your piano!

Dave Stahl, RPT
Piano Technician's Guild
San Jose, CA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAniw3m7L2I
http://dstahlpiano.net

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#628256 - 05/27/08 12:33 AM Re: fools a plenty!
idylldon Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/31/06
Posts: 9
Loc: Idyllwild, CA
While I can understand the frustration some of you feel, I just want you to know that there are folks like me who primarily lurk on this forum just to read the posts from all of you experienced techs. I want you to know that I appreciate being able to eavesdrop on your conversations and that I've learned a LOT by doing so.

As for me, I've been tuning pianos for about two-and-a-half years now and am fortunate to have an excellent tech, Steve Schell, Long Beach, CA, as a mentor. He got me up to speed and then I took over one of his school accounts, which is a private arts high school up in the mountains where I live. By now, I guess I have almost a few hundred tunings under my belt and am finally feeling as though I'm getting a handle on it, though I also know it's a never-ending process of learning.

I've also ventured in to the realm of repair since many of the pianos I tune have led hard lives and there's always something to do for them. I actually feel kind of sad the way some of them are treated, so I try to do little repairs to each piano when I tune them. It's a dog-chasing-its-tail quest in this situation though. The older pianos give me an opportunity to learn, which I'm grateful for. My first rule is "do no harm," so when I get into something I haven't done before, or I feel is beyond my skill level, Steve usually guides me through it or I just wait until he comes up for a visit and I watch him do it. All in all, it's a good situation for me since the closest PTG meeting is about 4-hour round trip, and my family life doesn't lend itself to that kind of excursion these days.

I know that being a "real" piano tech/tuner requires a lifetime of learning, but I've had a lot of related experience through finish carpentry, diesel mechanics, fabrication, and many other "hands-on" kind of "mechanical" pursuits. The piano seems to embody all of them; that is, mechanics, woodworking, fabrication, metalworking, and artistry are kind of all rolled into one. Pianos are truly amazing in design and function, and they never cease to amaze me.

I guess my little rant is just to say that you all have a very positive influence on people like me who are pursuing this craft, and I want you to know that I appreciate greatly your willingness to share your hard-won knowledge.

Cheers,
--
Don

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#628257 - 05/27/08 07:42 AM Re: fools a plenty!
Rickster Offline


Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 8395
Loc: Georgia, USA
Hi Don,

Great post! I concur with your assessment of this forum completely.

Best regards,

Rick
_________________________
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel

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#628258 - 05/27/08 09:26 AM Re: fools a plenty!
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6828
Loc: Grand Rapids Michigan
Naaaa Ron, not really a group hug. It's just that we've seen that been there before with the DYI thing several times now.

Here's a nice example. You know I like playing this one game online. Battlefield 1942. There are many separate servers run on line. However, my cousin sets up his server and many of us run off from that. Supposedly, it is "punk Proof" which means, hack proof. Well, this one "punk" hacked right into my cousins server kicking him off and taking over until my cousin shut it down. That is extremely frustrating to people like him and me, as it screws us all up because they go right into cheat mode with only one goal in mind. Win, no matter what. And, that no matter what is almost always, cheating.

I guess I look at this about the same way. We have those that appreciate. We have the total jerks that live life to annoy others intentionally and to mess with threads. We have those that love to find fault with what some of us say. We have those that simply like to be disagreeable. And, we have those like myself, that enjoy the great posts that you, Dan S, Roy P , Dave Stahl and to many other names to say that post.

I know even though I've been tuning for 40 years now, that I am continually either re-learning something here that I had forgotten or learning something new.

That's the main reason why I lurk here. The other is that I've made a few new friends at the same time.

Believe me, I get just as frustrated as you do with some of these folks.

Maybe it's because I'm sick at the moment and just don't feel like being disagreeable much right now but, ahhh, don't let it get to you to much guys. That's all. Maybe next time, I'll be one complaining? \:D
_________________________
Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.

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#628259 - 06/03/08 08:40 PM Re: fools a plenty!
Stilamazed Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/12/07
Posts: 92
Loc: New Jersey
Thats right boys, keep pointing them fingers. It's MY fault you cannot feed your children. The fact that you cannot carry on an inteligent conversation, ME again. Gee, didn't no i had so much power over your lives.
THOMSON LAWRY: You have the ability to "define" a mans character by the piano he rebuilds? I own three pianos, what does that tell you? How many do you own? You claim to have tried to "explain" something to me. Thats not the way it was, you stumbled upon some "catty" behaviour, and then tried to propagate it, you tried to egg it on for your own entertainment, now you want to tell your story as if you were some sort of voice of reason. Go on.
Mr Twang: You claimed to have given some valuable advice, and then were poo poo,d by some DIY. Tell us, what was this advice? WHO ARE YOU TRYING TO IMPRESS? does not sound like advice to me. You guys want to see some REAL disrespect? Do a quick search, The thread is call "Piano Wire" It is what started everything, It was the only question i've ever asked, and look at the response i got. It was at that point i desided to stop wasting my time in this forum, it has nothing to do with interesting piano information, and the reason is NOT because non-professionals ask questions, it's because of the gigantic egos that live hear. Tell me boys, was what i said about scaling software wrong? Why DID he ask such a stupid question? How long do you have to work in a supply house to be considered a piano tech? Is there a section on the exam about pricing?
RON: I'm not always this obnoxious, but when you and your friend want to sit around and pontificate about how me and my people are some kind of lower form of life, that need your pity, i find it a little condesending. Tell me,if i told you i was born in mexico, would you help me with my piano? You know... for the sake of being "The great white educator" Maybe you could find it in your superior heart to feel sorry for me too. I'm a bigot?

GOODBYE

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#628260 - 06/03/08 09:19 PM Re: fools a plenty!
David-G Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/17/06
Posts: 1241
Loc: London
Politeness and courtesy make a big difference in this world.

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