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The only hammers I know of that sound anything like old Steinway hammers are Ronsen hammers with Bacon felt, cold-pressed and unlacquered.

ddf

Hey Keith...
Just so you know...
Started in 1983
Three years full time piano tuning school 85 to 88
Own business in UK 88 to 98
USA since 1998...

Tuned and re-build many a spring and loop vertical in the UK until I saw the light and currently have 500 Steinway owners on my client list.
Tune and prep over 100 new Steinways each year...
Countless private tunings.
I am a fully professional technician doing 40 to 45 hours each week and loving every minute....
I'm sure you are a lovely man Keith....naive, but lovely...
Please keep doing what you are doing....and do try some New York parts....you can grit your teeth even if you do find them satisfactory...and you don't need to tell anyone...shhhhhhh

Ditto on the Ronsen hammers with the Bacon felt.
The last several sets of hammers I have hung have been these.

Additionally, I like Steinway Parts.
I enjoy working with them.
My clients like Steinway Parts.

If I have truly fussy clients, I will be repining what ever I buy, no matter who makes it.

Also, ANY new part, regardless of who makes it, will require understanding the original design and the impact the new parts will have on it. Adjustments are necessary for consistent high level results.

Peter, I concur with the opinion that you ought to join PTG and take the exams. They should be a breeze for you. Your opinions would carry much more weight if you did and certainly not just here. Otherwise, you are just a statistic, one of those who believes he already knows everything and is too good already to even bother with that.

I have often said that the one and only reason a practicing technician, especially one such as you, does not join PTG and take the exams is FEAR. You believe very highly in yourself and your skills but deep inside, you wouldn't want to know that you did anything less than perfectly on any of those meager exams. But the fact is that no one EVER has taken each of those exams and scored perfect 100's across the board.

They are challenging exams and meant to distinguish professional knowledge and skills from those with incomplete or substandard skills. The results of all exams are strictly confidential, revealed to no one, not even the spouses of the examiners in the privacy of their bed chambers. That leaves only you to fear what you may know and do imperfectly and only you to find a way to improve upon what you already perceive to be at the highest level it can be.

No one knows it all and no one is perfect. You are obviously in a fine position as a Steinway technician. Steinway has the obvious advantage of being the most revered piano manufacturer in the world and has held that position for well over 100 years. Yet, Steinway is certainly not above criticism and not without its faults.

I use Steinway replacement parts for the reasons I gave. I know how to work with them but I also know my limitations. I do not believe that all Steinway pianos are without fault but I also know that my knowledge is limited in scope. I've heard far too many answers from Steinway people that I could immediately dismiss as simply towing the company line and have done just that, dismiss them for what they were.

I respect all opinions on this matter of whether to use Steinway replacement parts or not. I believe everyone is entitled to their own opinion and acting upon it will achieve their purposes and goals according to the extent of their own initiative. In other words, there is no absolute right or wrong in this question or in the abundance of piano technology issues that arise.

I became aware of that apparent paradox decades ago: for every opinion very firmly held about any one issue by one individual, there is bound to be another person who comes along who will say and/or do exactly the opposite and in the end, both opinions can be justified and acted upon with success.

Bill
Thank you for your comments and encouragement.
I certainly believe that there is still much to learn, and am on a constant search for ways to refine the skills that I have.
The 'fear factor' maybe there in my sub conscious, but time constraints and the lack of necessity for the PTG qualification for me personally, made it evaporate as a requirement for me.
The qualifications I earned in UK were externally marked and were a good starting point for what has turned out to be a fine career.

If my lack of PTG qualifications diminishes my remarks and comments, in some technicians eyes, that is unfortunate, and maybe I should refrain from further comments in these pages.
I know that I have the tendency to be forthright with those I see as lacking in depth, and accept that as a character flaw.
Whatever my position within this craft, I must say that it has come from hard work and an attention to detail.

I agree with every word of your last post and thank you again for taking an interest in a fellow traveler.

No reason to stop posting Peter. We all say what's on our minds from time to time, including me. We all learn something from someone in here so, the less techs post, the less we all learn so, keep it up dude.

There is a new felt too. Ronsen will be making a hammer with Weikert felt. It is the proprietary formula that Wurzen used to make hammers from the late 1800's to WW2. The only difference is the formula has been "greened". No harsh chemicals.
I hung the first set on a Yamaha C6 but since the piano wasn't in the shop, the only tech that has heard them is Dale.
Dale passed around one hammer so we could stick a needle in it at the last PTG meeting. It felt different......

To select the right parts for your piano action. First, you have to look at the geometry of the parts, weight of the parts and the manufacturer of the parts.

To be able to identify the best parts, of course experience is helpful but not enough. During the process of selecting parts and building the strong background for future restoration, you have to provide the scientific test on every manufacturer for millions of hits (rounds) tries, etc.

I have already conducted such test, took me about a year to complete. For instance, I tested Renner USA for 15 million hits on a special equipment. It was a seven week non-stop operation. I have tested manufacturers like Renner, Tokiwa and Steinway. I was able to gain valuable information on the durability of the action parts and wear and tear in multiple points of the action. I cannot release this data, because some manufacturers are still working on improving their parts.

In your case, when selecting new parts, try to be as close as possible to original geometry.
Best regards.

Case in point, I've seen knuckle to center pin measurements of a boat load of "vintage" Steinway hammer shanks and flanges range from 15.5mm to slightly over 16mm. They were never noted for their consistency. Pinning problems have been a problem with ALL parts manufacturers. Everybody. Not a big deal really. Just correct it. Cold-pressed Ronsons with Bacon or Wurzen felt indeed are the closest thing we have to Steinway originals. But even they are lacking something.

Lacking something?
What do you feel they are lacking?

Steinway hammers are the originals. What they need to sound like old Steinway hammers is age.

Many high-end ("tier 1"? ) rebuilders sell their work based on the performance of the instrument.

Not having a 'Steinway' soundboard or pinblock, does not seem to hurt the value--if the result is there.

Having numerous spec Steinways with all the various hammer variety Ronsen,Ari Issac,Renner,Hamburg Renner,Abel I think it is the experience of the voicer that can make or break good results with a cold pressed tone building hammer in that a marshmello is a marshmello no matter what. I just got a newer set of Ronsens from Ray for an A or a B. I guess I'll see shortly any noticeable difference if any.