BTW, I talked with one of my suppliers about CA, and the guy said that he had talked with techs from a very well known piano company who use CA to correct the occasional loose pin (where the hole was over drilled with too hot a bit), on concert grands prior to shipping. Interesting...FWIW

RPD

I have never used CA, but when I run in to a lose pin, I usually will go with a larger pin! I will ream for the next size and then drive a next size pin! I also wash the pin in alcohol and use gloves to avoid skin oil on the pin! This works every time!!

What is best? CA gluing or over-sized pins?

I've used CA in several pianos with good results. I've never used larger pins.

Now I have to repair an old upright with loose pins and I am wondering which is best:

1. reaming the holes and putting pins 2 sizes larger

or

2. CA gluing the pinblock, cleaning and re-installing the original tuning pins?

Oversize pins or sandpaper or veneer shims are common methods for fixing an isolated loose pin. However if there are more than a few that are loose the CA treatment makes more sense.

Another problem is that an oversized pin can cause a small split in the pinblock to get larger, whereas the adhesive will tend to fill in cracks. If the loose tuning pins are in a row that's a clue that the block may be splitting.

...plus, I just think that the piano looks better without metal pin bushings or larger pins...keeps it more original looking. And, clients (IMHO) don't like hearing a technician banging on their piano...driving pins into a grand also suggests removing the action to brace the underside of the block. And, just when it seems to be working to pop another pin in, the old string breaks at the coil...fun...

CA is just easier...RPD

And it is cheaper!

Those of you who are bothered by the CA fumes (that'd be most of us), then use the odorless type. It is more expensive, but is also available in "water thin" viscosity and seems to work just the same.

Interesting Vincent. Good idea, thanks. I will look for the non smelly stuff next time. Didn't know they made it...

Has anyone had success ca - ing pins that have plate bushings? I did not think the stuff would make it into the block.
If it has not been mentioned - on grands, the use of towels on the key sticks under the block will help avoid any unplesant suprises.
At hoby shop I found a plastic tube applicator (0.50 cents) that has a very long and very fine point. CA can be sucked into the tube and accurately applied.
Works very will on open face blocks with nice veneer.

Gene, I can tell you this, I have used it equally successfully on both types. While I like the idea better on pianos with no plate bushing, I do believe the glue does travel down to the pinblock in pianos with plate bushings.

If you are getting CA glue dripping through, you are simply using too much and wasting it. It is a costly substance and that which is not absorbed only gets into areas where it may cause unnecessary problems and into the air which will only cause you distress.

The tubes you describe are excellent. I do think that in the case of pianos with plate bushings, the glue will fill the gap between the pate bushing and the tuning pin, yes, but that is not a problem, it only adds to the ability to control the tuning pin. After all, the plate bushing is meant to be an extension of the pinblock.

The key to application is to apply small amounts. The first application will readily be absorbed. When each pin has been treated, start again but only apply as much as will readily be absorbed. Don't "flood" the area. Two applications are usually sufficient. You can use a third or fourth squirt on any pins that remain loose but again, don't flood the area, apply a little at a time. That will allow the glue to go in where it is needed and largely prevent it from running beyond the area which you are trying to treat.

If you are getting CA glue dripping through, you are simply using too much and wasting it.
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The towels are a precaution - probably based on paranoia - I cannot assume that even a few drops will be completely absorbed.
Ever apply any to pins that had bushing strips - sandpaper or otherwise - inserted in the hole? We would be lucky to see them.

I have always been taught that plate bushings were just gap fillers and only provided pin support just prior to the first flagpole event.

Regarding ca toxicity - I have always thought it to be highly toxic - the name "cyano" before the "acrylate" gained a healthy respect from me - visions of cyanide - probably naive on my part.
Then you hear about doctors sealing up incisions and using it to stop bleeding - go figure.

It undoubtedly absorbs down through the block more than one would imagine. I always remove the action and put down a couple of layers of newspaper. In a few instances, even though I use the CA sparingly a drop or two will be on the newspaper.

I have used on pianos with and without plate bushings, and the results are always the same.
The pins feel excellent and the piano is ready to tune in 15 minutes or so.

I too wonder how long this procedure lasts. But I think it has lasting results. The first one I did was 5 or 6 years ago. Each year, when I return, the pins feel good and tight with plenty of torque

Another fascinating thread. I love this place. I wish my father was alive to read some of the information here.

Anyway, how to you apply CA glue to, say, an upright? Do you lay the piano down on it's back and put some CA glue on the pin and let it seep down or do you slightly tilt it and put the glue as close to where the pin and pinblock meet? Do you have to worry about getting any in the coil of the string on the pin?

I'm a little confused on the whole process, but I have an upright in my garage right now that could definitely use this treatment... once the weather warms up!

On grands, I've had equal success (also) with both bushings and non-bushings. I also doubt it would run through, but if there is an unknown PB crack, I worry about finding out after the leak has hit action parts...but for a quick repair, I just use a few drops, no prob...

As to uprights, use very thin CA and an applicator or even a needle syringe...you don't need to tip the piano, but its easier probably if you do. I don't tip it though...and I just treat as needed, unless its a basket case. FWIW RPD

BTW, it won't hurt the tunability if it gets on the coil...its a bit untidy, but unavoidable on occasion...I'm VERY careful on newer pianos with loose pins (Chinese "name" brands, it seems) But, on older pianos featuring rusty coils, pins, et al...not so big of a deal...and, using CA I've rendered tunable some of the wildest nut-job pianos!!...

Closest thing to a piano miracle I've run into, to date. RPD