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Hi Guys,

I'm new on this forum, so hi to you all!
I found this forum is a bless to a pianist, with abundance of information available about anything relates to piano playing.

I was just having this idea, if it's any possible / realistic to record the problem sounds such those described as buzzing, tinny, twangy, boing, etc.

If we have collections of audio sample on the sound problems, I believe it will greatly assist those who can hear the problem but can't quite describe it with words. It will greatly help describing the problem to the tuner as well in the correct technical word.

The idea is if we all contribute by recording all kind of buzzing, tinny, rattling, etc problems, every time we hear it happening on our piano, then we'll have ourselves a quite troubleshooting library for problem sounds.

For those who have problems, they can sort of compare with the recordings available and identify what kind of problem it is.

Harold Conklin did some recording of problem sounds in a controlled environment - I especially like the one where Yankee Doodle is played on example #5.
This work is on hard hammers and longitidunal modes but these are many of the twangs and other noises that we hear.
http://www.speech.kth.se/music/5_lectures/sounds/sounds.html

These are great recordings, please keep them coming!

Wow! Example #5 is amazing. How do they change longitudinal mode?

I've done some search and I've found the answer.

http://www.speech.kth.se/music/5_lectures/conklin/longitudinal.html

If there is a problem with the sound of a note, it is sufficient to point out the problem note to the tech. Most problems are related either to tuning or voicing. Therefore, if you want the problem taken care of, you should be available to test the piano right after tuning, to confirm that there is still a problem. A recording is just a waste of time.

Gadzar:

Longitudinal Modes In Piano Strings by James F. Ellis relates the author's experiments with longitudinal modes.

It is good reading, informative and very interesting. It's not a physics text, but a recapitulation of the author's conjetures, experiments, and results.

He finds a coupling between longitudinal and transverse waves, and gives some suggestions for technicians in the last pages.

Thanks for the info.

A while ago I tuned a S&S D cira 1936 for a recording and at one point the engineer heard a loud rattle from the piano. I was sent for and we could NOT duplicate the conditions or the sound no matter what we tried. Everlasting mystery. Not long after the owners son, 5 years old, took a set of drumsticks and chipped every ivory on it. Dunno if the kid made it to 6 years old.

I find half the time, buzzing is something laying on the sounding board, metronomes, other items on the piano, the smaller lid props, loose lid prop holding bracket screws, or other things harder to locate half way across the room or items on the walls.

A good tech doesn't need a recording to locate most problems; only someone there to play the notes while they look around for it unless it is tuning or voicing like BDB says.

Some basic sound recordings could benefit techs new to these problems. I often found that after investigating the usual known sources of buzzes and rattles I have to clear my mind of my biases and start searching for rather abstract sources.
A case in point, I took out a grands action for some regulating and when I put it back a whole section of about 5 notes in the bass had a buzz when played. After removing and checking the action several times and the rest of the piano, the little boy (innocently)standing nearby reached in under a sloping ledge and pulled out a pencil he had placed there while I was working on the action. We don't look for what we don't expect.

You're right Emmery. Yesterday, I had something similar happen to me. 2 notes when played in the bass, sounded as if the hammer flange screws were loose as they only made the noise on the upswing. However, all screws were tight as can be. When I shoved the action back in again, it still did it. After fooling around with it yanking it in and out a few times, I tried pulling the action back about 1/2" and it stopped. Hmmmm. I'm thinking, back checks hitting something maybe?? Felts on the backs of the keys missing a piece or something screwy like that? Nope... I couldn't find anything out of the ordinary. It wasn't the back checks either.

After pulling the action in and out several times looking at the sos., rail, damper wires, sustain pedal assembly and everything else in the action, that you of course, can't see in a grand action when it's put together, I shoved it back in one last time thinking dang it all! It still did it!

The thing that puzzled me the most, was that it would only do it when the action was all the way in. And, it did it immediately!

No matter how I struck the key when the action was pulled back by 1/2" or so, it would NOT make that noise then! Nor would it do it while the action was completely out. I hit those keys bouncing the hammers on the bottom of my hand dozens of times. Fast, slow, medium. Zip.. Couldn't make it do it for the life of me.

Soooo, I pulled it out one last time and just by accident, bumped the white keys with my forearm after the action was setting in my lap. One hammer stuck up on the neighboring one. I'm thinking, naaaaaaaaaaaahhhh....

Well, that's what it was on both notes. Apparently, they were jusssst close enough, to "click" on one another.

It still puzzles me as to why it ONLY did it when the action was all the way in... But, I "got r done!"

It might have been a not so perfect fit on the key bed, maybe just enough twist or warp to make them click. I once got a buzz sound that came from a loose tile on the floor under the piano; didn't find it until I got under the piano pressing on the ribs while the customer was hitting the note. When my butt pressed on it, it stopped.