Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Tuner-Technicians Forum New Challenges, old pianos: 1920's Lauter baby grand

I have been briefly lurking. I am just learning to play piano, and took an opportunity to pick up a 1920's Lauter baby grand. I always like getting my hands dirty, so I am anticipating learning a lot about pianos with this. I realize I might p-off some piano techs who have practiced their crafts for years, I don't mean to. I just want to "look under the hood" and do what I can to get this in playable shape. We'll see how far I get.

This is what I've noticed so far: the pin block looks sorta like it's been slathered in pin-tite or something -- it seems like there's a film across the entire top of the frame there. The pins in the central range, right around middle-C, have been driven in about 1/4" compared to both ends, and are probably at the end of their travel. Actually, on further examination, a fair number of pins middle to high are hammered pretty much all the way home (the string touches the plate, or is extremely close).

The pin block is made of 5-ply maple (about 3/16" each), with a bottom layer of something else (about 1/2" thick). There are small checks/cracks between some of the pins in the bottom layer of wood, but I don't see anything that clearly says to me "cracked block", though I would probably only know if it were really obvious. I have removed the action and looked from beneath, of course.

All the keys play, some of the dampers need felt replaced (it's rock hard) though some have new felt. Most of the hammers look okay to me, though the top few have been filed/worn all the way down to the wood it seems (perhaps that was an attempt at voicing?). The grooves in most hammers aren't deep, and I suspect they were replaced somewhere along the way, but again, I might not be seeing this correctly.

There are 4 broken strings, G5 & G/G#/A8. Many of the strings are rusty where they contact the felt near the hitch pins. One of the broken strings broke there (it's still there), the other two are missing.

The wound strings are copper-wound. They are pretty dirty, and muddy-sounding.

It was said to have been tuned 9 months ago, several notes are badly out of tune.

I realize many of you are professionals, and maybe this isn't the place to ask this? I don't have the money, nor did I get this piano, to have it rebuilt -- it's a learning process for me. Any insights you'd like to share, I'll be grateful for.

A couple specific questions: How likely can one unwind an old string without breaking it? It seems like this would need either a new pinblock, or bigger pins. Given that the block has been doped or juiced or whatever you call it, does that more likely mean a block? Just how foolish is it for me to think about making this playable?

Thanks!

Keith

From what you have described, it sounds like the piano needs just about everything.

Maybe it's not foolish, but it's certainly going to be expensive. You have to decide whether it's wise to spend literally thousands of dollars on a piano which may or may not be worth it.

Good luck.

From your description, this pinblock needs to be replaced. I wouldn't put larger pins in it. And I wouldn't try to save the old strings either.

Thanks for the replies. Can I get any clarification on the pinblock replacement issue? I assume you're basing that one the pin-tite issue, not on assuming it's cracked? I guess you're saying that once someone has trashed a pin-block with liquid, you shouldn't try large pins or shims. Is that a fair restatement? Thanks!

Would it matter what they'd used on it? For example, I hear some saying that CA is good for the task, in that it doesn't mess with the wood structure as much (that's my loose reading). Is there some way I can tell what they used on it?

Keith

You certainly can try it, CA glue that is or fix a bad one or two with a veneer shim. You will be replacing the block when restringing anyway.

Yes the strings can be unwound slightly and then pulled out of the becket and lift the coil off witout bending the becket bend. It still might break when you put it back but it's good experience

Depeding on how long you have been lurking, you may have read that is can be quite difficult or impossible to do a long-distance diagnosis of a piano based on a layperson's inspection, description and interpretation of what he sees. Really you need a local tech to look at it for you.

From what you describe, it sounds like the piano has seen some water exposure (rusty strings, hard damper felts next to soft or replaced ones) and probably pin block problems. The hammers have exceeded their useful life span, having probably been reshaped numerous times and played down to the wood in the treble...

Imagine an old car, driven around the world a few times, with only the odd oil change and muffler repairs, oh, and one replaced tire in the front, and going onto a car forum and asking about fixing it up...

Not to discourage you - go for it - this piano is not a candidate for commercial rebuilding anyway. I would CA the pins, get it tuned if possible, and enjoy it for what it is...

Would one always replace the block with a restringing? If I have in excess of 2 dozen pins that are driven so far down that I suspect they should be replaced/shimmed, does that just say "replace the block or discard the piano"? It seems like replacing the block might be a bit more grandiose than I'm ready for ;-)

the other keith

No, one doesn't always replace the block with restringing. Yours sounds like it will.

You have perfect piano to play with. You really can't screw it up any more than it is. Do what ever works.

"Can't screw it up any more than it is". Strangely comforting ;-)

Thanks for the helpful advice/thoughts all. Are there any opinions about using round shims on the pins in a case like this? Seems like they might "grip" well, and give me new pin travel on those that need it? Is there any big reason to avoid shimming a bunch of pins at a time?

keith

It's easier to use CA glue. You don't need any more pin travel unless they are driven down so the coil is on the plate. The pins don't move that much when tuning.

That's exactly the challenge: the coils are on the plate for about 3 dozen pins, I think... I think, as I have to address pins that either don't hold tune, or that have broken strings, I should try shimming them to get my pin travel back.

My current thinking is that I should abandon any thoughts of trying to "get it right": it seems like only 4-5 pins don't hold tuning, so I should fix them, and then address problems as they crop up. I have to replace several strings, I'll need to shim those few pins, and I'll probably have to tune it fairly often (during which process I may further ruin it!) so, since this is a learning process, I think I should just take it one problem at a time. I don't think I'll try some big piano-wide shim fix. If it ain't broke... or if it's not completely broke...

thanks again for the terrific help in understanding options!

Keith