I have had a consistent problem with my tuning levers. I do have several tuning levers. However, they aren't all up and running right now. They keep having the threads strip out at the head. It doesn't matter how much I try to tighten them at the start. The effect of pulling on the lever and gripping it is that the handle gets twisted in a counter-clockwise direction, and it comes loose. So, as I tune I am constantly turning and tightening the handle. I've been through 4 or 5 of these shafts. Does anybody else have this problem, and have you found a solution? In addition I have snapped off the shafts a couple of times. You can see the results in the pictures. The broken shafts have been on Baldwin pinblocks. They are a little on the tight side sometimes

Have you thought about trying a little Lock-Tite on the threads?
Are you just hand tightening?
Can you pull the extension and get a wrench on it?

The top one looks like you cross threaded it. Have a v jewlery file to take burrs out of threads.

You can't get it tight without some lube. Pipe joint compound does that. Not much is needed.

Sorry about them Baldwins. What were they thinking???? I hate them too. Never broken the hamer ...yet

Solution: Jahn tuning lever or Fujan tuning lever.

Baldwin...they were thinking that they never wanted any loose tuning pins. So they put the standard up too high. I talked with the guys who worked at the factory while I was at Baldwin. They knew it was a problem, and tried to address it. The problem is that the pinblock material they use is so dense, that even a little variance in the diameter of the hole makes a big difference. At one point I know that they had switched drill bit suppliers, and it caused some problems. Still, we are stuck trying to tune them.

I've tried putting them in the vise and tightening with a wrench. It only helps for a while. After that, yes, it was usually hand tightening while sitting at the piano. I may have crossthreaded at some point, but they didn't start out that way.

Brick:
Are either of those hammer heads put on with reverse threads? I think that my problem is that when I pull the handle towards me (I'm right handed) it unscrews the shaft. Something with reverse threads might do the trick. I may just go ahead and order a Fujan.

Anybody need a couple extension handles?

Roy--

I've been trying to figure out why this might happen to you. Nothing of the sort has ever happened to me. Tuning lever heads never loosen up on me. I change heads and tips from time to time, tighten them by hand, mix brands (Schaff, Hale, old American Piano Supply and Watanabe), and they never loosen. None has ever stripped.

I wonder whether it has something to do with the steepness of the angle of the tuning lever head that you use. I tend to use a head with the smallest angle possible (closest to 90 degrees). I think such heads are labeled as 10 degrees or less. Many people I know prefer 15 or 20 degree heads which allow for more clearance for plate struts.

My thought is that this steeper offset of the head tends to make you turn the shaft of the tuning lever counterclockwise. When you continually loosen the lever shaft and then retighten (as tight as you can!) you stress the threaded tip of the shaft and eventually the metal fatigues.

My suggestion: try using a five or ten degree head (if indeed you are using steeper ones) and see whether you continue to loosen the shaft. You can use a longer tip for clearance with the five or ten degree heads.

Or, epoxy the head of your choice onto the tuning lever shaft of your choice.

I think that Keith's suggestion of using joint compound to lube the threads might be helpful. While it is counter-intuitive to use a lube, maybe I can get the threads locked in tighter at the start. I have been thinking of just ordering a Fujan, but don't want the same thing to happen again on a more expensive hammer. At this point it may be more practical to buy a new shaft and head, and to try the joint compound.

Thanks Mike:
I have temporarily gone back to using my original hammer. It has just the setup you suggest. It is a nylon handled Schaff extension hammer, and it has a five-degree angle with a longer tip. So far it seems like it is just doing the same thing, although we will see. I have to say that I do like the lower angle better for tuning verticals. It does have problems on a few grands clearing the capo bar.

I have the Fujan with extra 5\8" extensions for different tips. There is no way you can strip the head on it because I never remove it. I only change tips with the extension already on it. It's so light and stiff, I would never go back to a regular hammer. Just my 2 cents.

Roy,

The Fujan and the Jahn do not have joints for different heads, only tips. They're solid, so there's nothing to strip. When you use them, you will soon realize how much freeplay there was in the type you have been using, even though it may not seem like it now. I consider my traditional style extension levers to be basically old junk now.

I think Brick is right. My mentor just got a Fujan and he says it has the best pin feel he has ever come across. Other hammer makers will soon follow I'm sure. I really like the Fujan and will get one soon but the older levers will be use full for leaving odd tips on that can get into tight spots or over struts and clear the lid prop as you rough out the treble.

Roy,
I had a little problem at first with my shaff lever. You need to inspect the threads on the new shaft before you try and start it into the tip. I can probably find dings and smashed threads and rough spot on 50% or more of the "new" threads. It's a problem of mass production and storage. If you run the hardened dinged shaft threads into the head, you ruin those threads and then it never tightens properly on either end. Get the threads to run up smoothly then put the head in a vise and tighten the thing.

I broke 2 levers on Baldwin pins when I was a Baldwin tech. Schaff had some bad extensions a while ago that stripped on me as well. The tip would not stay tight unless I put everything in a vise, then it was impossible to remove it. I use a Fujan now, and love it - however, you need the 5/8 tip extension for clearance.

OK, you guys have me convinced. I ordered a Fujan today. I bought the short shaft with the 15* angle. I have wanted to try a shorter handle for a while now. I usually use the extension hammers I have with the shaft all the way in.

Bob:
What angle head did you get? Do I need the extension tip with a 15* head? Thanks.

I think the shortest Fujan is longer than standard levers. But that's kind of the point of them. Longer=better control. The only reason the standard levers work better when they're not extended is because they're more rigid that way. But the Fujan is ultrarigid even in the longest configuration, which ought to put those Baldwin pins under control.

I have a couple shafts and use the longer one for those really dastardly tight pins. I would use it all the time except for the awkwardness of how I have to extend my human arm with the longest shaft.

Roy,

I was much happier when I changed from a nylon extension hammer like yours to a Keith Bowman hammer with one-piece shaft a few years back. There's definitely more control, with less flexing. For that reason, I'm really intrigued by what I read about the Fujan; it makes perfect sense.

By the way, for anyone who hasn't read it, the pdf from the Renner site by Keith Bowman, all about hammers and tips etc. (including maintenance and threading issues) is very informative. Reading that can (ironically enough) reinforce some of the reasons (as I understand them) why the Fujan should be very good.

http://www.rennerusa.com/Tech8.asp

There was a great Jim Ellis PTJ article a few years back about tuning hammer angles; basically his argument was that tip angle didn't matter - it was the height of the back end of the hammer that did. Short tip/sharp angle = longer tip/shallower angle if they ended up creating the same height at the end. I used to use a real short 15 degree tip. But if you've been using a longer 15 degree tip, you'll probably feel more control with a shorter one.

Cheers, Allen Wright

Thanks for the info Allen.

Well, at any rate the Fujan should be on it's way. Hopefully I'll like it. I had been thinking of trying one, and when this happened again, I decided to go ahead.

I took Keith's advice and worked on the threads of one shaft with a small trianglular file. It worked well enough that I have my regular hammer back up and running. I didn't have joint compound, so I used some graphite. It seemed to work for now.

The head on my Jahn is removable and I can get different angled heads for it. Granted, it isn't their top-of-the-line model.

Cheers,
--
Don

Roy,

Be sure and let us know what you think of the Fujan after you've worked with it for awhile. Allen

Ah. I didn't know there were different models. The head on mine is fixed.

Hello ! I am a Hungarian piano technician .....I used Hale and Schaff Hammer.... that was broken ...
I Using Itoshin and Watanabe now....with Itoshin and Watanabe Star Tips....