Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Pianoteq
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Topic Options
#644082 - 12/13/08 11:51 PM Strings buzzing against a plate strut
Gadzar Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/15/06
Posts: 1806
Loc: Mexico City
I was called to tune a Rosenkranz upright that has a strong buzzing when playing the first tenor unison.

After a quick search I found that the left and center strings of the unison actually touch the plate strut at the break when they are played.

I´ve put a piece of rubber between the left string and the strut, so the note can be played, only the center and right strings sound now.

This works fine for a piano or mezo-piano blow but if you play a forte or a fortissimo, then these strings also touch the strut and produce a very loud buzz.

This piano was rebuilt five years ago. New pinblock, soundboard cracks repaired, new hammer heads, new dampers, action refurbished, new strings, etc...

I guess it was when re-installing the plate that it landed too near to the soundboard and that's why the strings are too close to the plate.

What do you think is the solution to solve this?

Sould I shim the plate in order to increase the distance between the plate and soundboard/treble bridge? Or can I file the strut near the strings in order to make some clearance? Or maybe work on the bridge to lower the strings?

Any advice?
_________________________
Rafael Melo
Piano Technician
rafaelmelo@afinacionpianos.com.mx

Serving Mexico City and suburbs.

http://www.afinacionpianos.com.mx

Top
(ad PTG 568) Grand Action Regulation in 37 Steps
Grand Action Regulation in 37 Steps
#644083 - 12/14/08 02:41 AM Re: Strings buzzing against a plate strut
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21666
Loc: Oakland
The easiest thing would be to file the plate.
_________________________
Semipro Tech

Top
#644084 - 12/14/08 07:36 AM Re: Strings buzzing against a plate strut
wayne walker Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/08
Posts: 515
Loc: Windsor,Nova Scotia Canada
how was the overall pitch? I seen cases like this and the cause was the pinblock was separated from back frame- everything moving forward causing the first tenor strings coming in contact with the plate
_________________________
Wayne Walker
Walker's Piano Service
http://www.walkerpiano.ca/

Top
#644085 - 12/14/08 01:44 PM Re: Strings buzzing against a plate strut
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6828
Loc: Grand Rapids Michigan
Another thing to just check, would be to make sure the strings are not actually buzzing on the bridge once they go past the hidge pins. Sometimes, once they go past the hidge pins, they are still engaging the wooden part of the bridge. This will cause funny buzzing sounds too. If so, you will have to notch out the bridge a little bit under the wires there so the strings are not touching the bridge at that point.

Otherwise, it shouldn't take to much to file the plate a little bit to eliminate the buzzing if that's what's happening.

But, as Wayne mentions, if there is another reason why it is doing this, you will have to ascertain this and possibly correct this problem to correct the other. Provided of course, the piano is worth it...
_________________________
Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.

Top
#644086 - 12/15/08 02:24 PM Re: Strings buzzing against a plate strut
Gadzar Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/15/06
Posts: 1806
Loc: Mexico City
I am sure the strings are buzzing on the plate strut.

The pitch is right. I've tuned this piano last june and returned a few days ago to tune it again and it's on pitch. The pinblock is new and well glued to the back structure.

I have never heard about filing a plate and I was wondering if it was right to do it.

\:\) Thanks a lot for your answers.
_________________________
Rafael Melo
Piano Technician
rafaelmelo@afinacionpianos.com.mx

Serving Mexico City and suburbs.

http://www.afinacionpianos.com.mx

Top
#644087 - 12/15/08 10:04 PM Re: Strings buzzing against a plate strut
Keith Roberts Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/04/04
Posts: 1984
Loc: Murphys, Ca
Did it have this problem last time?? If it didn't, you have something moving. You might have some stripped perimeter screws or a nose bolt.
_________________________
Keith Roberts
Associate, PTG
Keith's Piano Service
Hathaway Pines,Ca

Top
#644088 - 01/01/09 02:06 PM Re: Strings buzzing against a plate strut
Gadzar Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/15/06
Posts: 1806
Loc: Mexico City
Yes it had that problem the first time I tuned the piano. I have muted the string waiting for a true repair.
_________________________
Rafael Melo
Piano Technician
rafaelmelo@afinacionpianos.com.mx

Serving Mexico City and suburbs.

http://www.afinacionpianos.com.mx

Top
#644089 - 01/01/09 08:03 PM Re: Strings buzzing against a plate strut
Keith Roberts Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/04/04
Posts: 1984
Loc: Murphys, Ca
I see. The strings are buzzing where they cross the strut that follows the lowest bass note, right?
Check the downbearing angles across the bridge. That note is at the edge of the soundboard so the bridge will almost show the true brige height unstrung. If the angle to the hitch pin is excessive, the plate is too low or the cap was put on without adjusting and is too high. Pull a string line from the capo across the cap. You should have about 2mm of height above the point on the plate where the wire contacts the bearing point on the plate.
The easiest is the file the plate just enough. Or you can pull the bridge pins and shave the cap down and renotch.
What do those notes sound like? Anything good?
_________________________
Keith Roberts
Associate, PTG
Keith's Piano Service
Hathaway Pines,Ca

Top
#644090 - 01/01/09 08:26 PM Re: Strings buzzing against a plate strut
Keith Roberts Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/04/04
Posts: 1984
Loc: Murphys, Ca
Oh, what I wanted to say was if the angle to the hitch is NOT excessive then the top of the plate is leaning forwards and the thing has some structural problems behind the pin block.
_________________________
Keith Roberts
Associate, PTG
Keith's Piano Service
Hathaway Pines,Ca

Top
#644091 - 01/01/09 08:33 PM Re: Strings buzzing against a plate strut
Sam Casey Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/05/05
Posts: 1135
Loc: SW Missouri
In the 70's Baldwin made a bunch of SF10's with plate casting at the bass break where a decent strike would whang the plate. It was like a pile of cast slag built up right next to the plate, all finished nice from the factory. Had to file it down with a Moto tool.

Top
#644092 - 01/04/09 07:40 AM Re: Strings buzzing against a plate strut
Gadzar Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/15/06
Posts: 1806
Loc: Mexico City
Yes, I believe the piano has structural problems.

As I've said it was rebuilt 5 years ago, they have put a new pinblock and I guess they did a poor job reassembling the piano.

This piano is located 150 miles from Mexico City, so I should wait until next tuning to file the strut.
_________________________
Rafael Melo
Piano Technician
rafaelmelo@afinacionpianos.com.mx

Serving Mexico City and suburbs.

http://www.afinacionpianos.com.mx

Top
#644093 - 01/04/09 10:23 PM Re: Strings buzzing against a plate strut
Keith Roberts Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/04/04
Posts: 1984
Loc: Murphys, Ca
And if the piano has gone way flat and the third string is buzzing, RUN!!!! It's going implode.
_________________________
Keith Roberts
Associate, PTG
Keith's Piano Service
Hathaway Pines,Ca

Top
#644094 - 01/04/09 10:29 PM Re: Strings buzzing against a plate strut
Keith Roberts Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/04/04
Posts: 1984
Loc: Murphys, Ca
Ask yourself why they called a beginner tuner from so far away....

Beware, give disclaimers in writing....
_________________________
Keith Roberts
Associate, PTG
Keith's Piano Service
Hathaway Pines,Ca

Top
#644095 - 01/08/09 04:53 PM Re: Strings buzzing against a plate strut
delacey-simms Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/14/08
Posts: 114
Loc: Kirkbymoorside N.Yorks UK
If the pin block has been put back wrong but is sturdy and not moving you can indeed file the plate strut, you can also tap the strings down with a screwdriver and pin-hammer where they emerge from the agraffe to get another half mm. Sounds strange but it works.
_________________________
delacey-simms
piano tuner, technician and enthusiast.
All my comments are posted with the utmost respect to the other technicians

Top
#644096 - 01/10/09 02:36 AM Re: Strings buzzing against a plate strut
Gadzar Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/15/06
Posts: 1806
Loc: Mexico City
Tap down the strings(?) Never heard of it.

There are no agraphes, only V bar, must I tap anyway?
_________________________
Rafael Melo
Piano Technician
rafaelmelo@afinacionpianos.com.mx

Serving Mexico City and suburbs.

http://www.afinacionpianos.com.mx

Top
#644097 - 01/10/09 02:38 AM Re: Strings buzzing against a plate strut
Gadzar Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/15/06
Posts: 1806
Loc: Mexico City
I am not affraid to be made responsible of any damage to the piano. I did not the rebuilding. I've only tuned it.
_________________________
Rafael Melo
Piano Technician
rafaelmelo@afinacionpianos.com.mx

Serving Mexico City and suburbs.

http://www.afinacionpianos.com.mx

Top
#644098 - 01/22/09 05:15 AM Re: Strings buzzing against a plate strut
delacey-simms Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/14/08
Posts: 114
Loc: Kirkbymoorside N.Yorks UK
_________________________
delacey-simms
piano tuner, technician and enthusiast.
All my comments are posted with the utmost respect to the other technicians

Top
#644099 - 01/22/09 05:29 AM Re: Strings buzzing against a plate strut
delacey-simms Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/14/08
Posts: 114
Loc: Kirkbymoorside N.Yorks UK
Whoops, as the strings come over the bar, at the very beginning of the speaking length the strings can indeed be tapped. It only works on newish wire and is really only to get all the strings in a trichord in line with eachother where there is a discrepency leading to toning problems. Sometimes the strings pass over a removable brass or even wooden rod that sits in a groove. In that case one can replace the rod for something thinner while the tension is off that section. That would take the strings down a bit but these are really things that I would bring a piano into the workshop to address. Sorry I can't be more help!
_________________________
delacey-simms
piano tuner, technician and enthusiast.
All my comments are posted with the utmost respect to the other technicians

Top
#644100 - 01/22/09 10:26 AM Re: Strings buzzing against a plate strut
Gadzar Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/15/06
Posts: 1806
Loc: Mexico City
Thanks delacey,

I am waiting until next tuning to solve this problem, I guess the best is to file the strut.
_________________________
Rafael Melo
Piano Technician
rafaelmelo@afinacionpianos.com.mx

Serving Mexico City and suburbs.

http://www.afinacionpianos.com.mx

Top

Moderator:  Piano World 
What's Hot!!
8 Live Ragtime Piano Players on the Cape!
-------------------
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Seiler Pianos
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Piano lessons: every week or every two weeks?
by Pover
10/24/14 06:34 AM
Anything better than the Yamaha CLP-990 yet?
by pianelmo
10/24/14 04:49 AM
Is A443 banned definitively?
by Olek
10/24/14 04:01 AM
Ritmuller Grand Pianos - Help!
by Mike RSA
10/24/14 03:56 AM
J.D.Grandt Bass Strings Opinions Please
by chernobieff
10/23/14 11:48 PM
Who's Online
96 registered (Auver, anotherscott, aesop, barbaram, 36251, 35 invisible), 1288 Guests and 38 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
76633 Members
42 Forums
158465 Topics
2327067 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission