Hi everyone,

I am seriously considering making an investment in an Electronic Tuner and have been doing a lot of research on the subject. It has come down to making a decision between either the Verituner or an Accu-Tuner.

Today however I discovered that there is a much lower cost option by way of a tuner that Korg offers called the model OT-12 Chromatic Orchestral Tuner.

I'm wondering if anyone out there is familiar with this product and has anyone ever used it?

If yes, I would love to get some feedback on the device.

The Korg sells for in the region of $140.00 whereas the Accu Tuner and the Verifier are priced in excess of $1,000.00

Again, I am new to this business and need to keep my overhead to a minimun during the start up phase.

I eagerly await your responses.

Derek (The oneliner)

A top of the line tuning fork cost $35, needs no batteries or other maintenance, and with proper care, will outlast you. Learning to use it properly will take you no longer than learning to tune with an expensive machine, if you take the effort to learn to tune properly. It will give you skills that will help you with other piano work, as well.

BDB is right; all you need is a tuning fork, with the small addition of knowing how to tune. A Korg tuner will not be of any more assistance in tuning a piano than a tuning fork. Save your money. Once you have some tuning skills, you will know whether or not to buy a device like a Verituner or Accu-tuner which is specially designed for helping to tune pianos.The chromatic function of the Korg is useless for pianos.

A Korg tuner (or any other cheap tuner for that matter) will not set a good temperment - they are not accurate enough. You can't stretch the octaves properly with them either. Keep in mind, that expensive tuning machine is a tax write-off, which helps.

For setting a correct temperament almost any electronic tuner is useless.
But it can be off real help for piano's in very bad tuning condition, with strings dropping in pitch after a few minutes etc., especially in the highest registers.
But anyway, it's better not to be entirely dependent on the electronic devices.

The electronic tuners designed to sample a piano's inharmonicity and thereby calculate a tuning can work very well. But any tuning device is useless unless you know how to use a tuning lever and how to set a tuning pin and settle a string. You don't need an electronic tuner to determine whether a piano is holding its tune--this is somethiing the most basic tuning-by-ear skills will show you. An electronic tuner that is not designed specifically for pianos is not accurate enought to tell you whether a piano is holding its tune.

Many thanks to all for your valuable responses.

I am going to invest in a Tuning Fork and develop my aural skills first.

Will keep you all posted as I "fine tune" my act now that I have got my bearings at the "fork" in the road.

Yes! believe it or not there is a reason they call me the "Oneliner" I'm the king of Pun to everyone that knows me and have a lot of the Irish "Blarney" in me.

Regards to all.

the Oneliner

Good idea! Anyway, an expensive ETA is a waste of money,for tuning a good piano in good condition it is useless and for a bad piano in bad condition a very cheap and simple one will do the job.

ok, I'll consider myself in the minority here...

What are we doing?!? I know: "this is how it's always been done."

Stop, please. We're in the 21st century, folks. The reality is that there is a bunch of equipment that can get oneliner up and running at a much higher level of tuning than just starting aurally. In addition, there are techniques and choices that could allow him to work at the highest tuning levels - once he gets over setting a stable tuning. Blasphemey? I know there is more resistance over on the other side of the pond for electronic tuning, so check out:

http://www.grandpiano.nl/index_en.html

follow the links to Verituner

But to continue... Any of you musicians may have heard "practice makes perfect" only to be corrected by someone in the know who states: "perfect practice makes perfect" By recommending an aural approach without constant mentoring, it seems that everyone admits that a new tuner will need to tune between 100 and 1000 pianos before getting "good". All of that practice of doing it wrong at the beginning will have an effect on future tunings, reinforcing bad tuning habits. Even with mentoring, there is still a huge learning curve to this process. Bill Bremmer's approach shows anectotal promise; time will tell.

What an electronic device can provide is a "check" for a beginning tech - has the note moved, can I make this interval better, do I agree with this octave? If not, there is a "landmark" where the note can be retuned to, or moved from, with precision. (though the needle tuners lack the precision to provide clear direction, they can keep a tech from making gross errors.)

Even by using the higer levels of "needle" electronic devices, it's possible to set the temperament octave better as a beginner.

So yes, if you are going to school and won't tune in public until you can tune better than a machine, by all means start with a fork. Otherwise,get something to keep you from making the common beginner mistakes. And we as technicians should realize that we do the public a disservice by continuing to support this process of sending beginning techs out in the world unprepared to provide high-level tunings

(ok, I'm done with my rant now.)

Ah no, I have just the impression that learning to tune aurally from the beginning makes one WIN a lot of time instead of wasting it.
That is, if one wants a really correct tuning on a good piano, with the beats in thirds, fourths and fifths gradually increasing. I have never come across an elecronic aid that can do this for EVERY piano...
Of course this argument doesn't apply to antiques that have been tuned every 15 years or so, then an electronic aid will do the job nicely while at the same time you can read the newspaper!

There are probably more people who buy an ETD and go out into the world tuning pianos unprepared than there are people who learn to tune by ear and go out into the world unprepared.

I usually tune a little of both aural and visual, and follow a lot of aural only tuners. Although this wont apply to everyone...just cause you claim tuning suprmacy as an aural tuner...doesnt mean you did a good job. I usually find the top octave not only in tune...but probably ignorred and the same in the low end. Give me a break. Im sure some are excellent but not all. Many of my clients tell me who they used to use and why they are not using them. WHO KNOWs??...but if you think electric aids cant give a good tuning...I think its time for more research.

You have certainly a point here. It's a dillemma indeed: tuning the temperament area by ETD will mostly not give good results, while bottom and top octave often cry for the evenness of an electronic aid.A combination of the 2 methods is certainly the best solution, although it needs frequent recalibration of the device.

Christian- I will agree with RonTuner. This point is probably moot, as I dont think VeriTuners are available in Europe, but I think you would change your mind about the temperament octave if you were to use a Verituner. The Verituner has changed a lot of minds about electronic tuning.
I dont think anyone advocates 100% machine tuning. I use the VT for one string of each unison, tuning the others by ear to the first.
I also agree with the comment about being in the 21st century- we have these advanced tools, why not use them?

I never said that an aural tuner does a "better" job than a visual tuner, whatever that might mean.

Indeed,I haven't seen them here yet and I am curious. Of course we must use everything that modern technology can provide us with. But I have been trained by My Japanese Masters to lay a temperament in some 5 minutes so I don't see what benefit an electronic aid could bring concerning temperament.
And...what to do half an hour before the concert and the batteries of the ETD go flat and and you forgot the AC-adaptor?

I actually find tuning octave 5 6 and up and from the break down, faster than using ETD. However in the beginning using Sanderson Accu-tuner was very helpful in the learning. I used to set the note...then check against the tuner. Eventually I was confidant enough aurally with various checks. I find it cut down on tuning time. My final checks are done aurally...as are unisons. The Accutuner has the FAC calculator and a host of other modes ..quite useful..but kind of expensive. I have no experiance with others. In defence of their use...We dont think less of an accountant using a computor instead of pencil and paper, and calculator do we ?????