Is there any information available on placement of the aliquots for tuning the duplex scale on my Model A? Are the intervals always fifths, or do they vary across the scale?

They vary across the scale. The highest are unisons.

Thanks. Okay, let me broaden the question. Should the duplex scale always be unisons and fifths (fourths)? Who has, or where is, information on specific duplex tunings?

bump ...

Ask Mason & Hamlin. Give them your serial number.

--Cy--

Original Mason & Hamlin duplex scales seem not to have been tuned exactly to any harmonics, whenever I have tried them.

There are some (perhaps many) that feel that the aliquots should NOT be tuned. The theory goes that tuning the aliquots actually detracts from the resonant frequencies and sustain time. At any rate, very rarely will one find aliqouts tuned to a sympathetic harmonic. Whether this is intentional is a matter for debate.

Maybe this is so for Steinway or some brands with fixed aliquots. When plucking the aliquots on my Fazioli they all ring precisely to the fifth or the octave. My technician has a special tool from the Fazioli company that allows the aliquot to move forward or backward in order to keep the tuning as intended. This is supposed to be done with every tuning.

So the last 3 posts are all different ...

.....is there any consensus as to tunning the M&H aliquots?

I sat through a demonstation of duplex tuning several years ago at a PTG seminar. It was given by Dan Franklin at the Mid-Atlantic Regional Convention. Dan has since passed away. He regularly gave classes on this, and sold the tools. I wish I had bought one now. In the class, it did make a difference in the piano he worked on. It was a Steinway. I remember being impressed at the time. I have to admit that I've actually never seriously tried this. It's a weak spot in my repertoir, I guess. The thing is, I don't know any technician who tunes duplexes....I haven't heard of anyone doing it around here. It just seems like something that is a good bit of extra work, and nobody really does. Dan had charts for the tuning schemes of many different pianos with tunable duplexes. Maybe someone has one of those.

The crowd who dominates the PTG list always gave Dan a hard time, which was too bad. They thought that it didn't matter, and he was pretty passionate about it. So, I guess that it is something there is disagreement about, and thus the variety of opinions.

I think the only tuning on them that matters is that if you pluck the backscale, they should be close. That shows that there is no imbalance in that portion of the strings.

Does your tech actually do this? I would think if I had to tune aliquots at every tuning the fee would probably double due to the added time. Also I think you would only get "close enough" as fine tuning them would not be truly possible like when turning a tuning pin.

Just as an FYI the aliqouts on Mason & Hamlins are tunable hence the original question. It is not something even remotely new to Fazioli.

I don't think so. I have yet to come across a M&H that had them tuned at the factory but I'm a beginner compared to some of the members of the list.

Some feel that by having 'tuned' aliquots that the string frequencies are enhanced and add vibrancy to the sound. Others feel that the energy lost from the sympathetic vibrations detracts from same. I don't know of a definitive answer for you.

My question would be; how much tension should the backscale have in relation to the speaking length tension.
I usually just try and even out the sound of the harmonics on the duplex scale. I find harsh sounds and clash between two duplexs and smooth them out. If I have two different length duplexes that have the same pitch, I flatten the longer one to harmonize and make the tension equal. Or what ever seems to be heading toward a middle of the road tuning on the duplex.

John Dutton:

My tech does not actually tune the aliquots since they don't seem to need it. Also, I think there was a question of how much the strings need to be loosened to allow the aliquot to move easily.