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#655370 - 02/20/04 12:11 AM I Hate Classical Music
netizen Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/02/01
Posts: 1926
Loc: New York
A couple of threads over in the "Pianist Corner" reminded me of a recent piece in the New Yorker titled "Listen to This: A classical kid learns to love pop—and wonders why he has to make a choice".

A few quotes:

"I hate “classical music”: not the thing but the name. It traps a tenaciously living art in a theme park of the past. It cancels out the possibility that music in the spirit of Beethoven could still be created today. It banishes into limbo the work of thousands of active composers who have to explain to otherwise well-informed people what it is they do for a living. The phrase is a masterpiece of negative publicity, a tour de force of anti-hype. I wish there were another name."

"When I tell people what I do for a living, I see the same look again and again—a flinching sideways glance, as if they were about to be reprimanded for not knowing about C-sharps. After this comes the serene declaration of ignorance. The old culture war is fought and lost before I say a word."

Check it out online Here
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we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."-- Theodore Roosevelt

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#655371 - 02/20/04 04:55 AM Re: I Hate Classical Music
jgoo Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/23/01
Posts: 3974
Loc: Seattle, Washington, USA
The thing that I really hate is how nobody even gives classical music a chance. They are all caught up in rap, which isn't even really music at all. I can remember watching a movie on tv with some friends and when it ended, he said that he had to change the channel because the credits had classical music playing which only I would be interested in.
Going back to rap, I have a feeling that many people who listen to it secretly don't even like it. They just do it fit in because rap is the current "thing". I hate rap, and don't pretend not to. I've tried to like it before, but it's never worked. The form of it is hideous, the messages that many of them put across are horrible (though that doesn't apply to all rap that I've heard), and its just plain annoying. I also hate how people just have to have their rap cranked with the bass all the way up. I just feel like taking a shotgun to the speakers of their radios. Urgh!
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#655372 - 02/20/04 05:01 AM Re: I Hate Classical Music
jgoo Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/23/01
Posts: 3974
Loc: Seattle, Washington, USA
To add onto my post, rap is taking over much more than just classical music and oldies. Even rock is unkown to most younger people now! A few months ago I mentioned Stairway to Heaven to some of the kids that I "kid-sat" over the summer, (ranging from 11 to 14 years in age) and they looked at eachother, and then back to me, and said "what's stairway to heaven?" I then told them that it is a song by Led Zeplin. Again, they looked at eachother, and then back at me, and said "what's led zeplin?" :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
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#655373 - 02/20/04 02:53 PM Re: I Hate Classical Music
azabache Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/28/03
Posts: 11
Hi jgoo,

Ok, I respect your right not to like rap, but I take issue with the fact that you've basically lumped all rap into one category and made a blanket statement. If someone said, "Bach, Beethoven, it's all the same and I don't think it's music anyway," no doubt you'd find the remark offensive, not to mention oh-so-ignorant. The soaring architecture of Bach and the raw, elemental force of Beethoven are equally genius, but not the same.

Yes, there are those who praise excess and regard women as little more than objects. There are those who spew nothing but anger and violence in their lyrics, and whose music grates on the ear. You could say that last statement for rock as well as rap. \:\) But I digress.

My point is this: rap, like other genres, is much more varied than the airwaves would have you believe. For every rapper preaching guns and money, you'll find others talking about something as ponderous as the state of our society, or something as light-hearted as getting wild at a party and enjoying every minute of it.

In the end, I'm completely in agreement with the author of the article. Why should we have to pigeonhole ourselves into genres? I like Bjork as much as I like Nappy Roots, Mozart as much as Piazzolla; should their differences matter?

Sorry if this all sounds overly preachy; but I *had* to step on the soapbox. :rolleyes:

cheers,
a

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#655374 - 02/26/04 11:57 PM Re: I Hate Classical Music
David Burton Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/28/01
Posts: 1757
Loc: Coxsackie, New York
ah yes a perenial topic. More when I get back home next week.
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http://dpbmss041010.blogspot.com/

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#655375 - 02/27/04 12:33 AM Re: I Hate Classical Music
piqué Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/15/01
Posts: 5483
ooo, netizen! thanks for bringing this article to the attention of the forum.

i stumbled on it myself tonight, while i was reading the new yorker at the gym, and couldn't put the piece down. i really could relate to his childhood experiences of listening to his parents' recordings of bernstein's "music appreciation" series and all the great classic recordings.

his signature childhood piece was the eroica. mine was brahms' first. and my first switchover to "modern" music was at about the same age; my first "alternative" album was "the specials," a ska band from england. i was listening to pere ubu in new york and going to clubs in the late 70s early 80s where this wacky music was being played. i was nodding maniacally while on the elliptical machine while reading this.

so well written, too. a wonderful example of the personal essay. i had no idea the article was available online.
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piqué

now in paperback:


Grand Obsession: A Piano Odyssey

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#655376 - 02/27/04 10:11 AM Re: I Hate Classical Music
RKVS1 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/01
Posts: 3192
Loc: Topeka, Kansas
That was a great article, and Alex Ross turned some very interesting phrases.

Pique, I was also very happy when in 9th grade I was introduced to the L.Bernsteins series of music discussions. I missed some of them, (don't remember the discussion of Eroica) but was very interested in the 5th symphony study. Eroica is one of my favorites too, and I once saw a team of 11 pianists on 6 grand pianos play a transcription of it.

I've included a few of the quotes that I highlighted as I read the piece. Apologies to the band-width managers.

------
The music attracts the reticent fraction of the population. It is an art of grand gestures and vast dimensions that plays to mobs of the quiet and the shy. It is a paradise for passive-aggressives, sublimation addicts, and other relics of the Freudian world. Which may explain why it has a hard time expressing itself in the time of Dr. Phil.
--------

My inability to finish anything, much less anything good, left me with a profound respect for this impossible mode of making a living.
-----

Composition at its most intense is a rebellion against reality. No one except the very young demands new music, and even when we are young the gates of inattention crash down quickly
------

It is a strange American dream, this notion that music can give you a new personality, a new class, even a new race.
------

At an early performance of “Parsifal,” listeners hissed an unmusical vulgarian who yelled out “Bravo!” after the Flower Maidens scene. The troublemaker had reason to feel embarrassed; he had written the opera.
The Wagnerians were taking Wagner more seriously than he took himself—an alarming development.
--------

I start to clap, but the man with the score glares again. One does not applaud in the midst of greatly great great music, even if the composer wants one to! Coughing, squirming, whispering, the crowd visibly suppresses its urge to express pleasure. It's like mass anal retention.
--------

There are more,
Bob

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#655377 - 02/27/04 10:17 AM Re: I Hate Classical Music
piqué Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/15/01
Posts: 5483
you missed the line about necrophilia! \:D
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piqué

now in paperback:


Grand Obsession: A Piano Odyssey

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#655378 - 02/27/04 01:23 PM Re: I Hate Classical Music
RKVS1 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/01
Posts: 3192
Loc: Topeka, Kansas
It was Necrophilia? I read it as Neoconservative. I suppose there is a technical difference.

I also left out his 5-step process from gestation to indigestion, and didn't mention his mention of Wynton Marsalis.

But people can read it for themselves.

Bob


Bob

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#655379 - 03/01/04 10:07 PM Re: I Hate Classical Music
Ed Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/02/01
Posts: 931
Loc: Pensacola, FL
Thanks netizen. I enjoyed the article very much.
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Neurodoc
My (very dated) Web Site

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#655380 - 08/29/04 11:19 PM Re: I Hate Classical Music
snooey_go_getter Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/29/04
Posts: 23
I also find it rather annoying that many of those "rap" lovers tend to immediately associate "classical music" to only belong to "music geeks", and that everyone who listens to "classical music" is obsessed with mozart.

I, myself, just tell people I listen to "Instrumental Music". Of course, being a teen, this isn't exactly great for moving up in social status except in band class.

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#655381 - 09/03/04 04:05 PM Re: I Hate Classical Music
Frosty87 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/03/04
Posts: 5
Loc: England
i play in several orchestra's as well as playing piano, and a few days ago, when i mentioned about the concerts id played and such, i got told that playing a classical concert isnt a real "gig".

Im only 16, so when i mention i listen to classical (used in the widest sense) music, i instantly get branded a "freak". It doesnt bother me personally, but i fail to see how four chord punk, is musically better than orchestral classics that have survived the centuries

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#655382 - 09/03/04 07:24 PM Re: I Hate Classical Music
FallingLeaves Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/02/04
Posts: 8
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
I'd say I'm pretty lucky, because where I attend school (Hunter College High School, in case any of you were curious) the kids who like 'classical' music aren't a minority. In fact, unlike what was stated in the New Yorker article, kids in Hunter like sometimes very contrasting genres of music, like rock and 'classical.'

Is that true in any other high school?
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I took the road less traveled by
And that has made all the difference

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#655383 - 10/26/04 07:11 AM Re: I Hate Classical Music
DW_mod Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/12/04
Posts: 117
Ha...LOL \:\) Interesting thread!!! \:\)
Let me share my experience with you... griviences I'm afraid.

Have u ever had the experience with people treating u 'weirdly' just because u play a decent 'classical' instrument?
I hate it when people think of musicians as high and mighty, to be more respected simply because we know music and thus shun away from us. Is it because they really think that we deserve the adoration or that they are being '.......I can't put this to words.....'?
Especially when they percieve us as class conscious( whom they themselves are in the first place ), hi-life beings with no clue about life sufferings, poverty, stress etc.
They do treat us differently, and on several occassions, pushed us away from themselves, knowingly, purposely! I think.
I.e: There was this one particular incident that really piseed me off.
I hate having vivacious cabby drivers talking non-stop all way through the journey...well, anyway. He was complaining to me about how tough life is for him...How unfair God is and the government and this and that. Man! He was one big angry machine! So, as a Christian, I thought it was my duty to enlighten him. I merely suggested to him that God is a fair being. He rains on the roof of the bad, and the roof of the good. That life itself is not eternal, and only whatever investment we had in His Kingdom is eternal. And though the path to righteousness is narrow, but all those who made it through will find riches and not poverty.
Then he snapped at me! 'What is your job?' 'What? A pianist!' "What would you musicians know about life!"
I thought that his statement was really unfair. Are we musicians plain silly or just really 'fortunate' good life beings to you? That we know not about pains and sufferings and are oblivious to things around us?

And I hate it even more when people give u that strange look when u say u teach music. And they go like:" What? Music? U can make ends meet by teaching music? U should have chosen another career... It's silly, How can u survive by doing music...."and blah blah blah ...Well, what do they know anyway?

Then there's the third type, that regards musicians as sages or demi-gods. I find them the most annoying. They speak to u delicately, and try to engage u in 'mediocre' conversations.
Waitress: "What? U want beef stew? Why don't u try this air flown steak. I think you will love it...."
Waitress: "Is the music too noisy?"
Waitress: " Oh, I don't think you like Britney Spears...let me change the song for u..."
Waitress: " Do u know who's Britney Spears?"...(Come on! I merely choosed to study music...I'm not a caveman! U should have seen their 'face of ultimate horror' when I mentioned that Linkin Park is great. )
Waitress: "...Really? U watch TV?..."
Witress: " U know how I wish I was like you... You can play music...that's so clever...Unlike me...I don't even understand music..." ( Come on! Get a life! )
Waitress: Oh no, wait! I know Be-tho-van. He wrote alot of symphonies right? Must be like Hundreds of them! Wow! He's a genius!...( Yeah, right... Hundreds? He only wrote nine. )

Oh Man! Please stop treating us differently. We're not 'caged clowns'...We are perfectly normal human beings. And yes, we eat crap and talk crap and watch crap TV shows just like everyone else.
So who's the freak now? And who's the class conscious?

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#655384 - 03/26/05 07:56 AM Re: I Hate Classical Music
Voyager III Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/25/05
Posts: 6
Loc: Pennsylvania, US
After reading DW_mod's post, I must say that I never viewed the world that way. But perhaps that's because I haven't experienced enough in life yet, for I am only a freshman in high school. However, from what I HAVE experienced, people at school admire my talent. Being musically talented is just like being artistic or athletic - it's another skill in life. No one would criticize you for majoring in music. I realize that other music such as rap is becoming far more popular, but I still believe that a good fraction still enjoys classical music.

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#655385 - 07/14/05 02:12 AM Re: I Hate Classical Music
Loki Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/09/05
Posts: 1035
Loc: Texas
The people who dislike classical music just are incapable of understanding it. I myself am 15, but i attend a performing and visual arts school, so everybody listens to classical music.

In my experience, if you want to make someone like classical music, show them a piece thats easy to understand, but sounds really nice. I personally like the Fantasy Impromptu or the third movement of the moonlight sonata to make people listen to.
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Houston, Texas

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#655386 - 07/25/05 03:54 PM Re: I Hate Classical Music
Ancient Upright Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 384
My family never listened to classical music, so I didn't even know it existed for years! Now I really like it. I think it should be given more respect.

I think it's kind of like a language, with it's message encoded in sound. Anyone agree?
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#655387 - 07/25/05 04:09 PM Re: I Hate Classical Music
DantheMan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/23/05
Posts: 62
Loc: Chicago
("rap music"=oxymoron. It's an art, not music)

"When people hear “classical,” they think “dead.” "
interesting article!
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Quote by me,
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#655388 - 07/25/05 04:49 PM Re: I Hate Classical Music
John Citron Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/15/05
Posts: 3925
Loc: Haverhill, Massachusetts
It's too bad that people view Classical music as dead because there is a lot more to it than meets the eye. This is typical of the times I guess. Many people today want instant gratification, with little work or with critical thinking. The sad part too is many schools have completely eliminated the art and music programs so no one is exposed to Classical music at an early age. Classical music takes a lot more work to absorb.

We also have to remember too that music, in general, is a reflection of the times when the composers lived. If we look back at Beethoven, and Debussy, for example, we can visualize the time in which they lived. Schubert, like his contemporaries was deep into the Classical style with the very structured and balanced approach to form. If we look at Debussy, you will see the Impressionists, and their paintings as in the works of Monet, Van Gogh and others. Rap is another style of popular music that unfortunately, to me anyway, is an easy way out. It represents the fast pace and instant gratification that many young people want today.

Just my 2-cents,

John
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#655389 - 08/19/05 02:10 PM Re: I Hate Classical Music
***musical princess*** Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 537
Loc: Newcastle, England
I tried to get a friend of mine to listen to a recording of Grieg's Concerto in A Minor the other day and he refused to listen. When i asked him why not he said because he doesn't like it. This intrigued me so i questioned him further. 'Have you actually *heard* any proper classical music?' To which he replied - 'No, i have never listened to it as i know i will hate it so whats the point'. Well, as you can imagine i got very cross at his ignorance. It really p*sses me off when people say they don't like something they have never even tried!!!

x
_________________________
x Caroline x

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#655390 - 08/19/05 02:19 PM Re: I Hate Classical Music
pianojerome Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 9868
I was chatting with an old friend of mine on AOL a week or so ago. I said, "Have you ever heard any of Prokofiev's music?"

"No, I don't think so"

I told him that he's a modern classical composer. I said I was listening to some of his piano concertos, which are fantastic.

He said: "Oh, it must be really good then" [because it's 'classical music']. "But I didn't know there was such thing as modern classical music." ... "I didn't know the 1900's were included."

So I gave him a lecture.

And now he understands a little bit better. \:\)
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Sam

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#655391 - 08/19/05 02:22 PM Re: I Hate Classical Music
pianojerome Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 9868
See, here's the amazing thing:

Sometimes I tell people I listen to classical music, and rock music makes me nauseous, and they think I'm insane.

Quite often I tell people that I listen to classical music, and they are really impressed. They think it's really cool and intellectual that I listen to "classical" music. They wish that they could listen to classical music, too, but they never do. It's something too intellectual and too awesome. They couldn't possibly be good enough to listen to it. :rolleyes:
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Sam

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#655392 - 08/19/05 03:49 PM Re: I Hate Classical Music
***musical princess*** Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 537
Loc: Newcastle, England
When will people learn, ey Sam?

:p

x
_________________________
x Caroline x

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#655393 - 08/19/05 04:25 PM Re: I Hate Classical Music
pianocliff Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/05/05
Posts: 398
Loc: Washington, DC Metro
I hate the moniker "classical music" as well. It tends to give the impression that all classical music is "sedate" and "proper", just waiting for their audiences to fall asleep. As if! Classical music has some of the most beautiful and exciting themes to be found in any genre of musical expression. Not to mention the fact that "Modern Classical" is a complete oxymoron but if you say "Modern" music to a musical neophyte they will instantly think you are talking about Britney Spears or someone equally as disastrous.

Let's face it though, the world loves stereotypes. All rap isn't "gansta" style and all classical isn't mozart (not that there's anything wrong with mozart). It's hard to re-wire socially programmed stereotypes especially when we live in a society that is always examining itself in the mirror and trying to imitate the acts of people who shouldn't be imitated.


The biggest threat to modern musical appreciation (IMHO) is the way music is marketed to the younger generation. Music thesedays is about promotion, marketing, image, complex chreography, oh yeah and let's see what else...almost forgot....the music. The MUSIC often times seems like the last thing that some popular musical performers think about when in fact, it should be the only thing. Maybe its the influence of MTV, of the media, of overzealous marketing, i don't know what for sure, but I find more people who want to listen to what other people listen to than actually find music that interests them.

My musical interests vary from classical to new age to jazz to techno. I realize I am a musical conundrum, but it doesn't bother me because I listen to what I like in many different genres. Personally I've noticed that adults have a much better appreciation for music in general and tend to like a more diverse collection of music. Young kids and teenagers these days are very compelled to like the same sorts of things and of these music is a subset. The real danger is that these kids will grow up with a bunch silly stereotypes that they never tried to break down and as a result never discover certain types of music.


~pianocliff

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#655394 - 08/19/05 07:04 PM Re: I Hate Classical Music
Tezzie Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/13/05
Posts: 59
Loc: London, UK
I understand what you are all saying! I am 15, and my peers are OBSESSED with music as some kind of image. Who you are depends on what kind of music you listen to. It's "cool" to know all sorts of unknown rock bands that no-one's ever heard, because they haven't become "commercialised".

The people who listen to, I dunno, Pink Floyd are no different to fans of 50 Cent - they are only listening to it for the image. I am not saying either of these artists are bad, by any means. But they aren't appreciating the music, just the image that comes with it. And they don't accept other types of music outside their "style" at all.

I have nothing against any style of music. I don't particularly like some, but I listen to anything that sounds good. I have preferences (classical music being one), but no prejudices.

Although, though I do like some "modern music" (pop, r'n'b, etc), I do appreciate that the amount of practice and level of skill required to play a classical instrument IS alot higher than having your voice enhanced in a studio and shaking your booty!
_________________________
"Without a piano I don't know how to stand, don't know what to do with my hands."
- Norah Jones

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#655395 - 12/07/05 08:52 PM Re: I Hate Classical Music
PerformingYak Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 205
Loc: Lightning Ridge, Australia
I just hate the broad use of "classical music" it is hard being a music teacher and trying to teach about the real classical era when the students seem to associate all music before 1930 as classical and really have trouble distinguishing between the different eras. (wow tha was a long sentence)

 Quote:
Im only 16, so when i mention i listen to classical (used in the widest sense) music, i instantly get branded a "freak". It doesnt bother me personally, but i fail to see how four chord punk, is musically better than orchestral classics that have survived the centuries
Try blasting them with some Carmina Burana or Ride of the Valkyries!
Some of my students get really freaked out when you point out how simple a lot of pop/ rock/ punk etc is. They also never realised that you can merge almost all Brittany Spears songs into one long medley without changing key.
Its even worse when the music the students listen to is just a remix of "classical music" and they don't even notice

Sometimes I hate being a teacher :p
_________________________
"Work hard and strive to reach the power of bland"

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#655396 - 12/26/05 05:36 AM Re: I Hate Classical Music
Arjen Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/24/05
Posts: 173
Loc: Groningen, Netherlands
Do yourself a favor and check your favourite rock or rap forum. You'll find people complain how unfair it is everyone treats them like caged clowns, how everyone who listens to classical music only does so for the image and how vastly more difficult it is to speak 400 words a minute compared to pressing some keys on a piano.

I can neither play piano or rap well, I like listening to pink-floyd, didn't know all spears songs could be merged together without changing songs (although I admittedly don't know too many of her songs) and severely dislike cooked vegetables. Some people don't get that but that's ok. Gives me a chance to rant about it on a forum.

Or in other words: I don't do what I do for whatever image and as such I don't care whatever others think of it.

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#655397 - 12/26/05 09:48 PM Re: I Hate Classical Music
DCshoesGIRL Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/13/05
Posts: 102
Yeah...some people dont give classical music a chance....but they just dont hear or understand what we do. Its just not translated to them the same.
_________________________
My music reflects me......and my mood.....[Monica]

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#655398 - 01/10/06 09:59 PM Re: I Hate Classical Music
PerformingYak Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 205
Loc: Lightning Ridge, Australia
 Quote:
Do yourself a favor and check your favourite rock or rap forum. You'll find people complain how unfair it is everyone treats them like caged clowns, how everyone who listens to classical music only does so for the image and how vastly more difficult it is to speak 400 words a minute compared to pressing some keys on a piano.
Don't you worry now I also have problems with the amount of new genres of music emerging which all have to be lumped under "popular music" as well and people classifying so such under R&B when some of t isn't.
.......It's not hard to speak the 400 words a minute but to do it well and in a rhythmical way that still makes sense.... even harder when it is impromptu!
And good on you for the veges. Personally I don't eat any veges by choice, only coz I know I will get sick if I don't
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"Work hard and strive to reach the power of bland"

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#655399 - 01/30/06 08:19 PM Re: I Hate Classical Music
Prophetic Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/02/04
Posts: 98
I have my issues with classical music... As I was reading this I was thinking about it and I think because the classical period (Haydn... Beethoven... Kuhlau) always sound so proper and regal when I listen to them. The chords seem to be in sets of 3's for the tension to release but popular music it's one chord for tension one chord for release. I'm really trying to get my mind around it because I don't mind Baroque or anything from the Romantic Period on... weird. I still love me some classical of course. Chopin and Brahms being the two I can stand and really? The Brahms intermezzo I play right now could have a vocal line written above it and played on the radio. I think the same of Liszt's on Lake [Insert German word starting with W here] -- I'm playing it and I'm thinking, "Wow, these chords!"

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