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#655400 - 02/04/06 06:51 PM Re: I Hate Classical Music
nutnoodle Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/21/06
Posts: 3
Loc: Near Glasgow, Scotland
It really annoys me when people don't give "classical" music a chance. (by which I really mean all the orchestral music that the average Joe would call "classical"). Todays music evolved from classical music so I think it's a really important part of our history and listening to it can really help you grow as a musician, just as listening to any other types of music can...like jazz, rock and even rap.

I mean I've noticed parts of classical music that have cleary influenced jazz. Some of Debussy's music for example.

One thing I have always wondered. Why say "I hate classical"... or "I only like rap"? By doing it you're only restricting yourself as a person. It's the same as saying "I'm a goth" or "I'm an emo". I just don't understand this modern need some people have to strip away their individuallity and become one of the masses. Apart from anything else, with the number of songs in the charts which parts taken from classical songs (recently I realised the song played at the start of Bridget Jones's Diary - All By Myself, is actually taken from a piano concerto by Rachmaninoff!)... therefore anyone who says they hate classical music is either a liar or a hypocrite. *nods*

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#655401 - 04/26/06 01:46 PM Re: I Hate Classical Music
PhotoJenny Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/05/06
Posts: 27
Loc: Linlithgow, Scotland.
I've had the following conversation with people too many times:

"You listen to classical? Wow, me too!"
"Oh, nice! So what composers do you like?"
"Um...... I love the Moonlight Sonata by Mozart!"

Sad thing is, I'm not even kidding.

Also, as for rap music. To me, when I listen to a piece of music, if it's a song, I don't listen to the lyrics. I listen to the music, and this is what determines whether I like it or not. With rap music, it's more or less all lyrics, and I find it hard to appreciate something like this.
_________________________
Badoom boom chic.

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#655402 - 05/04/06 10:59 PM Re: I Hate Classical Music
PerformingYak Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 205
Loc: Lightning Ridge, Australia
It isn't all in the lyrics. Sure some of them are witty or controversial but I find myself tuning out and listening to the syncopation and interesting rhythms the rappers can get out of their words while still having a great flow..... its just a pity when you get a bad one:)

 Quote:
"(recently I realised the song played at the start of Bridget Jones's Diary - All By Myself, is actually taken from a piano concerto by Rachmaninoff!)... "
Wow, cool! . There's another one to add to my list. It always amazes the students when you tell them "Friends Forever"(or whatever the name is) by Vitamin C is actually Pachabels Canon, or that the Jaws theme is originally Wagner

I totally agree that people box themselves in by giving themselves labels. Rather than say I"I only listen to..." I prefer to say " I don't really like most.....(usually country western)... but I give it a chance"
_________________________
"Work hard and strive to reach the power of bland"

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#655403 - 05/06/06 07:48 AM Re: I Hate Classical Music
Les Koltvedt Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/13/05
Posts: 3195
Loc: Canton, MI
 Quote:
Originally posted by PerformingYak:
Try blasting them with some Carmina Burana or Ride of the Valkyries!
[/b]

Have them watch OLD cartoons
_________________________
Les Koltvedt
LK Piano
Servicing the S. Eastern Michigan Area
PTG Associate

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#655404 - 05/09/06 11:29 PM Re: I Hate Classical Music
Loki Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/09/05
Posts: 1035
Loc: Texas
 Quote:
Originally posted by PhotoJenny:

Also, as for rap music. To me, when I listen to a piece of music, if it's a song, I don't listen to the lyrics. I listen to the music, and this is what determines whether I like it or not. With rap music, it's more or less all lyrics, and I find it hard to appreciate something like this. [/b]
yeah, i tend to listen to the beat and the music before i listen to the actual words.
_________________________
Houston, Texas

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#655405 - 05/16/06 07:56 PM Re: I Hate Classical Music
xyz2004slc Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/27/05
Posts: 353
I don't think that you should put down any type of music. Believe it or not, even rock music requires a lot of creativity on the composer's part (I can't comment on punk/rap/metal/emo music/etc. etc. etc. because I don't really listen to them). The difficulties of rock may or may not be the same as the difficulties of classical music, but there are difficulties. Why is some rock good and some bad? The good ones have structure (yes, structure). Just listen to Daniel Powter's "Bad Day". There is music, not just long, bland sentence like a song that involves the month September. \:\)

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#655406 - 02/04/07 12:39 AM Re: I Hate Classical Music
lungfish Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/02/07
Posts: 43
Loc: nyc
 Quote:
Originally posted by PhotoJenny:
"You listen to classical? Wow, me too!"
"Oh, nice! So what composers do you like?"
"Um...... I love the Moonlight Sonata by Mozart!"
[/b]
haha thats the worst.


but yeah, speaking from someone who likes most all kinds of music,
every, and i repeat, every genre of music has many artists that are truly that, artists. and they make incredible music. hip hop (or rap) is a perfect example as azabache made it perfectly clear in his post. same goes for rock (although even for the stern and exclusively classical music listener, i don't think rock has to be stood up for. good rock at least.) and jazz and afrobeat and electronic music and all that.

a real musician, i think, is one that knows that every conceivably musical thing is music. in one way or another. it just depends on whether ones eyes is open enough to see it.

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#655407 - 02/28/07 10:35 PM Re: I Hate Classical Music
lordlactose Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/24/07
Posts: 99
Loc: Upstate NY
I have no appreciation for some idiot standing next to a computer generating music and yelling profanitites.

I rather see a master of an instrument pounding away with great skill on an instrument like the guitar or piano.

any fool can be a rapper. but only the divine can be great mucisians

rap if for the simple minded scumbags

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#655408 - 03/06/07 05:38 PM Re: I Hate Classical Music
PerformingYak Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 205
Loc: Lightning Ridge, Australia
Thanks for he controversy the Lordlactose.

Any fool can be a rapper, but any fool cannot be a GOOD rapper. Some of the best are those who can get a real flow of words straight off the top of their head without having to write it down or think too much. THAT is the type of rap which should be apprectiated more.

The beauty of rap is in the clever and witty but at the same time highly rhythmical way they put their words together. Try it at home, come up with some incredibly witty social comments of your own and string them together to a beat without stopping for a couple of minutes, it isn't that easy after all.

And the breath control of a good rapper... WOW.
As for yelling profanities, what about Linkin Park... or MC Hammer:D

Unfortunately all genres of music at some stage have become susceptible to the perils of commercialism.... and yes SOME of that Is for the simple minded, generally put together with a beat and a hook and not much else (but hey, it makes a lot of money). However I wouldn't call them scumbags.
_________________________
"Work hard and strive to reach the power of bland"

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#655409 - 03/17/07 02:37 PM Re: I Hate Classical Music
namekuseijin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/15/07
Posts: 49
Loc: Brazil
 Quote:
Originally posted by azabache:

For every rapper preaching guns and money, you'll find others talking about something as ponderous as the state of our society, or something as light-hearted as getting wild at a party and enjoying every minute of it.
[/b]
ok, and where is the rapper making actual music rather than lyrics?
_________________________
tr~~

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#655410 - 03/20/07 06:52 PM Re: I Hate Classical Music
PerformingYak Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 205
Loc: Lightning Ridge, Australia
At my school....

The kids were on a music camp this year and put all the music together themselves and over the top they had their own raps... which they wrote.


There's also Mike Shinoda from Linkin Park,
The Hilltop Hoods, Limp Bizkit. Rap isn't just the rapper, there is often a band attached.

Oh yeah, and the students didn't write about guns and money, they wrote about being aboriginal (it was a camp for indigenous students), their connection to the land and their people, their feelings and so on. Some of their music was really good and quite professional.
_________________________
"Work hard and strive to reach the power of bland"

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#655411 - 03/23/07 04:23 PM Re: I Hate Classical Music
pianoid Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/21/07
Posts: 314
Loc: somewhere in the space-time co...
 Quote:
Originally posted by PerformingYak:

Oh yeah, and the students didn't write about guns and money, they wrote about being aboriginal (it was a camp for indigenous students), their connection to the land and their people, their feelings and so on. Some of their music was really good and quite professional.
[/b]
You say they *wrote* about being aboriginal, their land etc and then you go on to say their *music* is actually quite good. I don't know of any *music* capable of saying about one's origins or their land...

oh, you were talking about poetry, not music! my bad...
_________________________
gggEb!

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#655412 - 03/25/07 06:22 PM Re: I Hate Classical Music
PerformingYak Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 205
Loc: Lightning Ridge, Australia
No need to be so condescending and sarcastic...read the rest of the thread and you won't miss the point.

They also wrote music to go along with the lyrics... The point being that some rappers are actually capable of creating music as well as rap lyrics. It isn't just the lyrics that make rap a style of music.

As for music being able to say things about feelings, well there is plenty out there... what about Smetana and the Moldau??
It might not say it in lyrics but the feel of the music- pitches, rhythms, dynamics etc. There is the woods, the peasants wedding, the hunt. And before you say anything, yes you can kind of tell there is peasants etc around by the music, not just from some blurb at a concert telling you so.
_________________________
"Work hard and strive to reach the power of bland"

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#655413 - 03/25/07 06:39 PM Re: I Hate Classical Music
Jeanne W Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/28/04
Posts: 1240
Loc: New England
People tend to be comfortable with what they know and tend to stick with what they know.

Hence people liking the kind of music they like and not really giving other music much of a chance.

Though it's true not everyone is going to like every kind of music or every piece of music within a type of music. We all have our own personal likes and dislikes.

Also at a certain age, people tend to want to continue to listen to the music of their youth. That drives me crazy. All the radio stations I listen to for popular music, play so many ancient pieces of music in between - I want to hear NEW music. Not ancient stuff from the 60's and 70's and 80's whatever!

We could debate classical and rap and other things about music all day long and we'd still all never agree on anything. \:D

Jeanne W
_________________________
Music is about the heart and so should a piano be about the heart. - Pique

1920 Steinway A3
My Piano Delivery Thread:
http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/8776.html#000000

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#655414 - 03/27/07 11:22 PM Re: I Hate Classical Music
Ted Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 1500
Loc: Auckland, New Zealand
I tended to critically and foolishly eliminate much music when I was young, thereby depriving myself of years of pleasure. One of the joys of aging is that I find I am much broader in outlook, willing to listen to and sometimes appreciate much that I would have rejected in my youth. One of the keys to this freedom was the elimination of all negative extra-musical association. For instance, I didn't like Bach for years because of irrelevant associations with Bach the man and what other people said his music was all about. Once I allowed nothing but the pure sound to enter my mind and gave myself the freedom to respond unconsciously to it, I began to like it very much.

Of course the method doesn't work if you just simply do not like the sounds per se, as is the natural right of any listener, but so many people seem to unnecessarily reject large regions of the musical landscape for reasons which have nothing whatever to do with its actual sound. They might harbour negative visual, social and historical images or avoid a type of music because somebody they respect musically tells them it isn't any good.
_________________________
"It is inadvisable to decline a dinner invitation from a plump woman." - Fred Hollows

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#655415 - 03/28/07 02:19 AM Re: I Hate Classical Music
pianoid Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/21/07
Posts: 314
Loc: somewhere in the space-time co...
 Quote:
Originally posted by Jeanne W:

I want to hear NEW music. Not ancient stuff from the 60's and 70's and 80's whatever!
[/b]
Jeanne, if you've never listened to a particular piece of music before, be it from the 60's or from the middle ages, it's entirely NEW TO YOU. In fact, it's newer than stuff you've been listening for the past year, say...

Our worldly existence is absolutely relative...
_________________________
gggEb!

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#655416 - 03/28/07 02:29 AM Re: I Hate Classical Music
pianoid Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/21/07
Posts: 314
Loc: somewhere in the space-time co...
 Quote:
Originally posted by PerformingYak:

It isn't just the lyrics that make rap a style of music.
[/b]
Actually, lyrics don't make any style of music at all. Music is music, poetry is poetry. Completely distinct arts.

 Quote:
Originally posted by PerformingYak:

As for music being able to say things about feelings, well there is plenty out there... what about Smetana and the Moldau??
There is the woods, the peasants wedding, the hunt. And before you say anything, yes you can kind of tell there is peasants etc around by the music, not just from some blurb at a concert telling you so.
[/b]
So, you know peasants use certain kinds of rhythms, melodies and particular instrumentations and so whenever you listen to sections going like that in the middle of a symphony, you're able to identify the composer is talking about peasants, right? Same for birdsinging in the voice of a violin or flute.

But that only works insofar as you have contextual knowledge of those things. If I'm from a country where no nightingales live and I've never listened to them, I wouldn't know music featuring it is referring to birds. Similarly, the same about peasants from some distant countries or from ancient times.

Music can't say anything by itself, without some contextual knowledge. It can talk directly to your heart and only that.
_________________________
gggEb!

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#655417 - 03/28/07 02:55 AM Re: I Hate Classical Music
pianoid Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/21/07
Posts: 314
Loc: somewhere in the space-time co...
 Quote:
Originally posted by PerformingYak:

the Jaws theme is originally Wagner
[/b]
Actually, though John Williams music is largely Wagnerian-influenced, the Jaws theme is actually "inspired" by the beginning section of Stravinsky's magnificent and revolutionary music for the ballet "The Rite of Spring/Le Sacre du printemps". It was the music that actually brought "art" music to the 20th century. If you haven't yet, I urge you to listen to a recording of it. Pick the original orchestral version, not the piano transcription...

Williams was also "inspired" by it for some of the music for even Star Wars, notably the Tatooine theme.
_________________________
gggEb!

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#655418 - 03/28/07 03:02 AM Re: I Hate Classical Music
pianoid Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/21/07
Posts: 314
Loc: somewhere in the space-time co...
 Quote:
Originally posted by xyz2004slc:

The difficulties of rock may or may not be the same as the difficulties of classical music, but there are difficulties.
[/b]
yeah, like playing the 3 chords while stoned or/and playing the guitar with the teeth...
_________________________
gggEb!

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#655419 - 03/28/07 02:23 PM Re: I Hate Classical Music
Frank_W Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/10/06
Posts: 1047
Loc: United States
I love Rachmaninoff, Prokofiev, Beethoven, Chopin, Saint-Saens, and so many others. That stuff hits me right in the heart!! WOW!!

The stuff that really turns me OFF to classical, and I suspect this is true of many other people, is hearing huge orchestral arrangements of classical, where there's this tiny little piccolo solo, played so softly that you have to crank the stereo to barely hear it, and then BOOM!!!!!! HERE COMES THE TIMPANI AND THE HORNS AND THE HUGE STRING SECTION AND IT'S BLOWIN' ME BACK AGAINST THE BACK WALL AND RATTLING THE FRIGGIN' WINDOWS!!!!!

Holy cow... It's louder and more obnoxious than heavy metal ever was!!

My first exposure to Debussy, for instance, was an album of his music being played by an orchestra. It sounded horrible. It really did... I swear, I've never heard anything more cacophonous in my life. Yuck.... It was horrid. It took me a long long time before I gave his music a chance, but when I heard it performed by a piano soloist, it was so beautiful, my eyes welled up with tears.
_________________________
Compassion, Love, Strength, Peace, Dignity, Balance, Order

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#655420 - 03/28/07 08:03 PM Re: I Hate Classical Music
PerformingYak Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 205
Loc: Lightning Ridge, Australia
I think there are people who need to open their minds and actually listen to other forms of music with great solos in them etc, not just what they are comfortable with.... not mentioning any names of course, but they have posted on this page and may have made reference to stoned rock musicians.

And my apologies for assuming that people might know a little about other cultures. The peasant dance is not just due to the peasant rhythms and harmonies, it is also the general roughness and dance feel of it. If you know the country the composer is from and the approximate area he is describing you'd have a fair idea of what the music is doing. So yes, it does involve a very small degree of insight.... I wouldn't say it speaks to my heart, rather to my intellect.

 Quote:
Music is music, poetry is poetry. Completely distinct arts.
Rhythm is a factor in both music and poetry.


As for the Jaws theme... I did not know that.
but it does bare a great resemblance to parts of the ring cycle.
The Rites of Spring is one of my favourites, I could listen to it day after day after day
_________________________
"Work hard and strive to reach the power of bland"

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#655421 - 03/28/07 08:29 PM Re: I Hate Classical Music
louisquinze Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/25/07
Posts: 4
Loc: Australia
I guess it all depends on how you define music - If you go with Varese you will subscribe to 'organised sound' which does open the field enormously. 20th century classical music( Western Art Music) was criticised and derided for not 'being music'. We all have our favourites and while different genres require different levels of technical competence they are all expressions of human experience and emotion. (And you have to hand it to those who make a fortune on very little - but that's a social problem [Media?], not a musical one)

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#655422 - 03/29/07 11:51 AM Re: I Hate Classical Music
pianoid Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/21/07
Posts: 314
Loc: somewhere in the space-time co...
 Quote:
Originally posted by louisquinze:
20th century classical music( Western Art Music) was criticised and derided for not 'being music'.
[/b]
Yes, indeed. To me, serial works sound like richly structured, formaly written streams of noise.
_________________________
gggEb!

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#655423 - 03/29/07 05:06 PM Re: I Hate Classical Music
Jeanne W Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/28/04
Posts: 1240
Loc: New England
 Quote:
Originally posted by Frank_W:

The stuff that really turns me OFF to classical, and I suspect this is true of many other people, is hearing huge orchestral arrangements of classical, where there's this tiny little piccolo solo, played so softly that you have to crank the stereo to barely hear it, and then BOOM!!!!!! HERE COMES THE TIMPANI AND THE HORNS AND THE HUGE STRING SECTION AND IT'S BLOWIN' ME BACK AGAINST THE BACK WALL AND RATTLING THE FRIGGIN' WINDOWS!!!!!

Holy cow... It's louder and more obnoxious than heavy metal ever was!!

[/b]
Frank W. you made me laugh! I know exactly what you're talking about. A lot of classical music is impossible to listen to, for instance, at work, where I play CD's at my desk, but keep the volume level down. Some I have to constantly crank up louder to hear the quieter sections and then turn down WHEN THE DRAMA STARTS. This kind of music is best heard at home where I can appreciate the change in dynamics.

Something came to me the other day about this ---what I have to say could possibly be akin to blasphemy or heresy or whatever, at least to some people, but I'll say it anyway....

In a recent thread PW member said his view is every piece of music should have soft and loud parts and a climax, if you will. The idea being that music that is soft and melodious and maintains an even tempo throughout quickly gets boring.

It came to me, could it be that people who have become accustomed to those VERY DRAMATIC TYPES OF CLASSICAL music have become somewhat desensitized? The result being they cannot appreciate a simple, but beautiful piece of music that maintains a quiet elegance throughout the entire piece?

I'M AFRAID NOW.

Please try not to be too hard on me, Fellow PW Members.

\:D

Jeanne W
_________________________
Music is about the heart and so should a piano be about the heart. - Pique

1920 Steinway A3
My Piano Delivery Thread:
http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/8776.html#000000

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#655424 - 03/29/07 05:15 PM Re: I Hate Classical Music
Jeanne W Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/28/04
Posts: 1240
Loc: New England
 Quote:
Originally posted by pianoid:
 Quote:
Originally posted by Jeanne W:

I want to hear NEW music. Not ancient stuff from the 60's and 70's and 80's whatever!
[/b]
Jeanne, if you've never listened to a particular piece of music before, be it from the 60's or from the middle ages, it's entirely NEW TO YOU. In fact, it's newer than stuff you've been listening for the past year, say...

Our worldly existence is absolutely relative... [/b]
I agree. To explain a little...

The radio station I LOVED changed their format. Up until about 2 years ago, they played mostly tasteful new music and threw in a couple of golden oldies every so often.

Then I read in the newspaper a study that concluded a certain music mix was the most successful for radio stations. And I guess "my" radio station was one of many who changed to that new format.

New Format=75% old music / 25% new music.

If I wanted to hear OLDIES I'd listen to an OLDIES station. And they never play anything obscure, only those songs that make you groan when you hear them YET AGAIN.

GROAN.

I'm getting off my high horse now. Promise. \:D

Jeanne W

P.S. I guess that music is new to any younger people listening. But I think that really they are catering to the people in my age bracket, most of whom DO WANT to hear those old tunes.
_________________________
Music is about the heart and so should a piano be about the heart. - Pique

1920 Steinway A3
My Piano Delivery Thread:
http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/8776.html#000000

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#655425 - 03/29/07 05:17 PM Re: I Hate Classical Music
Jeanne W Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/28/04
Posts: 1240
Loc: New England
THE DREADED DOUBLE POST

I replied to myself!

\:D

Sorry.
_________________________
Music is about the heart and so should a piano be about the heart. - Pique

1920 Steinway A3
My Piano Delivery Thread:
http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/8776.html#000000

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#655426 - 04/27/07 01:48 PM Re: I Hate Classical Music
Johan B Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/13/07
Posts: 922
Loc: The Netherlands, Grootegast-Gr...
There is just one type music......it is the music you like!
Wether it is classical,jazz, pop, or contemporary music.

By the way: Music is a way of living. Nothing more, nothing less.

The discussion made me laugh.

Have fun.....by listening to your own music. It is no use to try and convince each other.

Greetings,

Johan B
_________________________

Currently working on Sonaten of Haydn and Mozart...
'Nil volentibus arduum'

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#655427 - 04/27/07 02:11 PM Re: I Hate Classical Music
pastafarian Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 379
Loc: Canada
I had to laugh at the comments which read like "rap is not music , it's poetry or 'just words' or some other such nonsense..." as though the human voice can not be a musical instrument. I'm not a rap fan, but even so, it's not hard to figure out that the human voice can take the role of any instrument including a percussion instrument.

You don't have to like it (I don't), but unless you have your own personal definition of the word "music" that no one else is privy to, you have to admit that it is, in fact, music.

As to what is "good" music or not, "good" has,is and always will be defined as "what the speaker likes". Period.
_________________________
Without music life would be a mistake
-- Friedrich Nietzsche

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#655428 - 04/27/07 03:23 PM Re: I Hate Classical Music
pianoid Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/21/07
Posts: 314
Loc: somewhere in the space-time co...
 Quote:
Originally posted by pastafarian:
I had to laugh at the comments which read like "rap is not music , it's poetry or 'just words' or some other such nonsense..." as though the human voice can not be a musical instrument.[/b]
well, sure. Except, of course, that in rap the human voice isn't used as a melodic instrument to any reasonable degree. They don't actually sing, they talk to a rhythm and that's about it.
_________________________
gggEb!

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#655429 - 04/27/07 03:57 PM Re: I Hate Classical Music
pastafarian Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 379
Loc: Canada
...which is why I added
 Quote:
human voice can take the role of any instrument including a percussion instrument. [/b]
Now, I suppose a person could try to make the case that percussion is not music, and the corollary that drummers are not musicians, but that person would not be me.
_________________________
Without music life would be a mistake
-- Friedrich Nietzsche

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New Topics - Multiple Forums
Noodling board
by Maarkr
04/20/14 10:20 PM
New Movement Composed "To Rule" 4/20/2014
by hsheck
04/20/14 10:17 PM
Understanding Sharps
by imustlearn
04/20/14 08:18 PM
When a beginner is not a beginner anymore?
by Eight Octaves
04/20/14 08:09 PM
DEBUSSY-"Serenade for the Doll" from 'Children's Corner'
by Hal Freedman
04/20/14 07:14 PM
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