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#655602 - 11/27/02 06:27 PM Anyone dig Jazz!
keyplyr Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 101
Loc: Southern California
Contrary to what Zappa said a few years back, Jazz is not dead - and it definitely doesn't smell that way either!

I think Zappa's statement was due to the fact that in the early 70's, Jazz music had become misdirected into an identity struggle with rock, rhythm and blues and that nightmare called disco!

Jazz today has a plethora of new, energetic and creative forces who are forging their own grooves. Jazz festivals are some of the largest events of all time and many high schools, colleges and universities offer Jazz programs across the nation.

Jazz music has perhaps influenced every other form of mainstream music, if nothing else than by challenging it's players to reach for more complex rhythms, sophisticated chords and diverse melody lines.

And yes it is a true statement that Jazz is America's only true, original art form!
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If you dig Jazz visit
http://www.apassion4jazz.net

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#655603 - 11/29/02 03:38 AM Re: Anyone dig Jazz!
Ted2 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/04/02
Posts: 790
Loc: Auckland, New Zealand
Yes, I think I do actually - piano jazz anyway. Are Keith Jarrett's solo concerts correctly called jazz though ? Of the older ones I like Brubeck, Tatum, Mary Lou Williams and Morton, whose transcriptions via Dapogny I am studying at present. Can you recommend other contemporary solo pianists I could listen to whose improvisation would definitely be called jazz ?

As for playing it, well, although I improvise all the time I doubt whether I play jazz properly so called at all.
_________________________
"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law" - Aleister Crowley

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#655604 - 11/30/02 01:37 AM Re: Anyone dig Jazz!
lucy in the sky Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/07/02
Posts: 76
Loc: New York City
Fred Hersch.
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Lucy

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#655605 - 11/30/02 02:56 AM Re: Anyone dig Jazz!
Ted2 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/04/02
Posts: 790
Loc: Auckland, New Zealand
Thanks Lucy. Never heard of him - shows how much I know about it. I shall enquire further.
_________________________
"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law" - Aleister Crowley

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#655606 - 11/30/02 07:44 PM Re: Anyone dig Jazz!
keyplyr Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 101
Loc: Southern California
Can you recommend other contemporary solo pianists I could listen to whose improvisation would definitely be called jazz? - Ted2

Some of my favorite current Jazz pianists, that play more of a self-contained style, are:
  • Bill Charlap
  • Billy Childs
  • Benny Green
  • Mike Wolford
  • D C DowDell
_________________________
If you dig Jazz visit
http://www.apassion4jazz.net

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#655607 - 11/30/02 09:14 PM Re: Anyone dig Jazz!
Ted2 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/04/02
Posts: 790
Loc: Auckland, New Zealand
Thanks Keyplyr. That's given me plenty to investigate for a while.
_________________________
"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law" - Aleister Crowley

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#655608 - 12/02/02 10:35 PM Re: Anyone dig Jazz!
lucy in the sky Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/07/02
Posts: 76
Loc: New York City
Hmm . . . might D.C. DowDell be eponymous, keyplyr? The shades just got me thinking . . .

I am unfamiliar with most of the musicians keyplyr lists, except maybe Wolford (Wofford? sideman for Sarah Vaughn and others?).

I share his enthusiasm for Bill Charlap, however. I first heard him at a shrink restaurant in the Village, or maybe at an Italian restaurant/jazz bar in the West Village. I cannot remember which. If it was the shrink restaurant, it is remarkable that he left any kind of impression. Shrinks like to be around music but they never stop talking, and that makes it hard to get into the music. Whatever. I have a couple of his CDs that I play over and over. One is a compilation of Hoagy Carmichael tunes called "Stardust." The other is "Written on the Stars."

My take on Bill Charlap is probably idiosyncratic. He reminds me of the bop players in Detroit sometime back who were my friends and who brought jazz into the center of my life.

Not to stay too personal, I should say that I find Bill Charlap to be a remarkably empathic and lyrical player; like Bill Evans, but different in important ways. If anything, Charlap is rawer. And he is still a kid, relatively speaking. Occasionally, he does a windup that even reminds me of Monk.

Anyway, keyplyr, I'll be on the lookout for the others in your list.

Anyone else have any favorite jazz pianists?
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Lucy

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#655609 - 12/02/02 11:14 PM Re: Anyone dig Jazz!
SteveY Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/06/01
Posts: 1820
Loc: NJ
 Quote:
Anyone else have any favorite jazz pianists?
Russell Ferrante
Chick Corea
Lyle Mays
Danilo Perez
Ed Simon
John Beasley
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#655610 - 12/03/02 12:31 AM Re: Anyone dig Jazz!
keyplyr Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 101
Loc: Southern California
Wofford? sideman for Sarah Vaughn and others? - Lucy

Yes, sorry for the misspelling. He also held the bench for Miles and currently teamed with flautist Holly Hofmann about San Diego.
_________________________
If you dig Jazz visit
http://www.apassion4jazz.net

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#655611 - 01/02/03 02:12 PM Re: Anyone dig Jazz!
MikeMcf31 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/07/02
Posts: 194
Loc: Northern NJ
For a contemporary jazz pianist, check out McCoy Tyner. He is awesome.

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#655612 - 01/07/03 01:20 AM Re: Anyone dig Jazz!
David Burton Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/28/01
Posts: 1759
Loc: Coxsackie, New York
Herbie Hancock with Miles
Mc Coy Tyner
Chick Corea and Keith Jarett, together or by themselves
Bud Powell with Bird, or by himself
Oscar Peterson!!!!
Earl Fatha Hines
Thelonious Monk, the dada ist of jazz?

Each of these has written at least one great melody or if not have embellished many great melodies. I have something for each of these, was privileged to have heard a few of them in person. Amazingly enough there are great collections on CD of their great performances. A number of them are worthy of transcription, some have been.

Modern jazz, really the only jazz I have a deep LOVE for, is connected with these people and other instrumentalists. A few of the big bands flourished into the fifties and even sixties and there were outstanding artists connected with them, though usually not pianists. But there’s quite a bit that can be learned from two in particular, how they played with the bands they led;
Duke Ellington and Count Basie.

I still maintain what I said about jazz in another post. It’s definitely not kids music, definitely serious and for adults. But it falls short in at least three particulars;

1) it’s improvised, in some instances realized and therefore a performance whether live or recorded will just not be exactly like any other performance, not the same notes, not the same feeling, not the same, not repeatable, not liturgical in the same way a classical piece is where you know what’s coming. Of course there are charts where some of the parts and the voicings are written out, and that’s where the music approaches closest to the serious intent of classical music. I have played and worked in a number of these ensembles and there is a definite dedication to making the music come across as “true to the score” and more time after time.

But 2), jazz derives from one culture that was the underside of another dominant culture and like it or not there are elements of alienation, dependence on alcohol and drugs, desperation at dealing with life’s difficulties, the blues as a basic ingredient in all jazz. Yes, one can get deep with it, but it usually feels and sounds better under various states of consciousness. Compared with the clear light of day expressed in the very much more cerebral 18th century classics, which never have to apologize for anything and never feel very blue, well…

And 3) because of its origins and roots and its improvisational style, without these elements it doesn’t sound very good. It was mentioned that jazz was forced to compete with other music near the end of the sixties and later to its detriment. I agree. Real jazz is ultimately about real pain, alienation, the blues and the release sought to escape those feelings and realities of deep alienation. If one hasn’t been there, one can’t really play it and may not really be able to dig it. I said it never tried to be what classical intended and I meant it. I have good reasons for saying what I do and deep experience with both jazz and classical. It is the respect that I feel for both that allows me to make the distinctions I do.

And I do make distinctions and one thing that I just can’t stand is the notion that everything must be EQUAL when NOTHING IS EQUAL and wishing it were so isn’t going to make it so! We see it everywhere and on this forum in the piano wars; this make vs. that, this pricey instrument vs. that cheaper one and everyone tries to intimate that one is EQUAL to the other. Why must everything be EQUAL? We live in a world of inevitable inequalities of all kinds. Why not accept them!
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http://dpbmss041010.blogspot.com/

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#655613 - 01/07/03 07:01 PM Re: Anyone dig Jazz!
SteveY Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/06/01
Posts: 1820
Loc: NJ
 Quote:
But it falls short in at least three particulars;
1) it’s improvised, in some instances realized and therefore a performance whether live or recorded will just not be exactly like any other performance, not the same notes, not the same feeling, not the same, not repeatable, not liturgical in the same way a classical piece is where you know what’s coming. Of course there are charts where some of the parts and the voicings are written out, and that’s where the music approaches closest to the serious intent of classical music. I have played and worked in a number of these ensembles and there is a definite dedication to making the music come across as “true to the score” and more time after time.
Instead of categorizing jazz as "falling short", I'd say the element of improvisation in jazz is precisely the reason that jazz "rises above". Improv is not some sort of musical "noodling". It's "spontaneous composition". Analyze some Charlie Parker improv and you'll see the depth of this idiom.

As for the other stuff, I completely disagree. Jazz transcends every facet of the human experience, from joy to sorrow. From celebration to the blues. And as for the connection with drugs, are we now saying that great classical composers didn't indulge in stimulants?

BTW - my 3 & 5 year olds love jazz! They ask for it.
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PianoWorld disclaimer: musician, producer, arranger, author, clinician, consultant, PS2 aficionado, secret agent...

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#655614 - 06/17/03 12:39 PM Re: Anyone dig Jazz!
victorialis Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/01/01
Posts: 57
Loc: deep in the forest
David... I agree with you about EQUAL.

Equal isn't interesting at all.
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"I hate quotations. Tell me what you know." -Ralph Waldo Emerson

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#655615 - 06/20/03 10:39 PM Re: Anyone dig Jazz!
gem83 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/11/03
Posts: 35
Loc: Long Island, New York
I love jazz..I play classical piano but I would love to learn how to play jazz piano. Does anyone know a good aproach to learning how to play jazz piano?

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#655616 - 06/26/03 06:50 PM Re: Anyone dig Jazz!
Madmartigan Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/01/03
Posts: 16
Loc: Michigan
Gotta get my vote in for Vince Guaraldi. \:\)

Can't really vouch for his material outside of the Peanuts genre, but it reminds me of when I was a kid.
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The lessons repeat until they are learned \:D

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#655617 - 07/22/03 01:14 AM Re: Anyone dig Jazz!
keyplyr Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 101
Loc: Southern California
 Quote:
Originally posted by gem83:
I love jazz..I play classical piano but I would love to learn how to play jazz piano. Does anyone know a good aproach to learning how to play jazz piano? [/b]
Jazz is about harmony. Yeah, it's about improvisation and a swing'n rhythm and the player's individual style and.... but it's about harmony and then restating that harmony in new and interesting ways that shape the direction of the tune.

Ultimately we play what we hear, and what we hear is a comprehensive result of what we've heard other players do, what our mentors have enlightened us with, what our proficiency allows us and what our heart inspires us to hear.

A "good approach" is to listen to everything you can get your hands on, then choose a few tunes, get the lead sheets (treble clef melody w/ chord symbols) and see what the tune is all about. What does the tune say to you? What do you want to say with the tune?
_________________________
If you dig Jazz visit
http://www.apassion4jazz.net

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#655618 - 07/22/03 06:21 AM Re: Anyone dig Jazz!
John51 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/31/02
Posts: 295
Loc: England
_________________________
Whaddya mean I shouldn't be swinging it? Beethoven wrote some great rags.

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#655619 - 07/22/03 08:15 AM Re: Anyone dig Jazz!
Piano World Offline



Registered: 05/24/01
Posts: 5602
Loc: Parsonsfield, ME (orig. Nahant...
Thanks John51, just took a look at the Learn Jazz Piano web site. Very impressive!

I'll be using it myself and will add a link to it from Piano World.

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Piano World
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#655620 - 08/04/03 02:20 PM Re: Anyone dig Jazz!
Jeff Bauer Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/28/03
Posts: 1718
Loc: Los Angeles
I got into Jazz when I studied music composition in college. I never looked back.

Even if I don't always play jazz exclusively, it has helped better my understanding of chords/modes/keys as well as improvisational patterns. These "nuggets" have become my personal database of compositional ideas - I continue to strive towards creating new ones, and thus the obsession lives on!

In addition to those artists mentioned above:
Nobody mentioned Brad Meldau yet, which amazes me.
Check out Joshua Redman (his pianists are always top notch)
D. Krall does a terrific job at playing in the pocket.
Miles Davis "Four & More, the lengendary 1964 live recordings" - Herbie BLOWS ME AWAY on this - as does George Coleman. Hancock, Carter, and williams lock the groove like nothing I have ever heard before.
Herbie Hancock: "Hang up your Hangups" on Manchild - fantastic clav work there.
Jonie Mitchell "Shadows and light" - Pat Metheny, Don Alias, Lyle Mays, JACO PASTORIUS, Michael Brecker - this concert would have been godly to attend.
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