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Hi, been having discussion with another member on a different forum about the inability of a person to gain advanced awards such as a diploma on a digital piano, bear in mind I would be talking about a very good digital in this instance. Apparently the main faults in ones performance criteria will be in touch because of the allegedly poor weighed non-mechanical keyboard on a digital. Here is the quote: I'm saying that you probably are not aware of what a diploma (I mean the exam diploma where you have to prepared a 3 hours concertos not only being able to show you can play demanding pieces but that you can organize them, choose them, perform them one after the other ... and where every single aspect of your piano knowledge is examined including the perfection of touch on an acoustic and the knowledge of how piano are made) entails. If you've always played on a digital, which has a completely different resistance and therefore the mechanism of playing (gravity/contraction/release) changes drastically compared to an acoustic ... you won't be able to show you've mastered this aspect when you'll have to show your technique on an acoustic piano. That's why no one get eventually a Ph.D. on piano performance by just practicing on a digital Is all this true, as I am concerned about this, I would like to advance and take diplomas etc.. but all this gravity/contraction etc.. is making me think do I now require an acoustic upright piano as apposed to my next piano choice which was going to be a CLP270/280, I wonder if that would suffice, does anyone think so? My playing is already advanced, however does one need an acoustic piano to perfect ones touch in order to create the right tones that these strict examiners look for. Thanks, I would be very grateful for any replies MWF
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Mark, With all due respect to the person concerned, it sounds to me like this individual has little idea of what the initial ABRSM Diploma[1] entails, which would be one of the obvious first choices for a UK-resident, assuming that you have passed ABRSM Grade 8 or its equivalent from another examining body[2]. Obviously gaining a PhD in piano performance is quite a different matter, and not one I assume that you are aiming for right at this moment. Here is the current syllabus. In it is explained what is expected (certainly not a 3 hour concerto, nor any specific knowledge of how a piano is constructed). According to their own statistics, the average length of time between Grade 8 and a DipABRSM pass is about 2 years. From the same source it would also appear that about half of the candidates who take the exam, actually fail in any given year. It is a tough project, some teachers have equated it more to a sort of "Grade 12" rather than a putative "Grade 9." I wouldn't say that it is impossible for someone practising predominantly on a premium digital, (but with perhaps some access to a decent acoustic on a regular basis), to achieve the required standard, though it would not be a walk in the park. I'd wager that the number of DipABRSM candidates who play digitals only is probably tending to zero. I remember from your previous posts that you have reached your current level by pretty much exclusively playing your Roland digital, which I also remember reading that you have since sold. Have you taken any standard graded exams to date? If yes, then how did you find adjusting from a digital to an acoustic on those occasions, and did the examiners comment on any aspects of your playing that could be ascribed to having practised solely on a digital? -Michael B. [1] Which is what I assume you mean by "Diploma standard" in your thread title: there are three levels of performance diploma, but given that the requirement for each of the higher levels is to have passed the previous one (or an equivalent from another institution), we can probably leave the LRSM and FRSM aside for the purposes of this discussion... [2] The acceptable alternatives are listed in the syllabus.
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This is a US-based website, and when you you use the word "diploma" like this, Americans don't know what you're talking about because the US piano and general education system is completely different from in the UK. For example, there are no piano-based diplomas of any kind in the US from the age of 5 until 18; people simply take piano lessons, and at 18 they graduate with a high school diploma from the high school they happen to attend. They might then go on to a conservatory or university and get a bachelor's degree in piano performance. There are also masters and doctoral degrees in piano in the US. College degrees in the US are rarely referred to as "diplomas"-- the word is "degree" in the US. I have no idea what you're talking about; you might as well be writing in a foreign language. You'll need to translate what you're saying into an American context or you'll only get replies from UK posters.
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Well I did fine crossing over to an acoustic piano, there did not seem to be any problems, because I am 100% self taught anyway and I have never felt there was any problems between playing on an acoustic or digital over the years.
Having said that though it seems if I wanted to advance further into diploma study, (lets just call it higher advanced piano for now Gyro to make it easier) then it would appear the examiners in future would notice my inaccuracy perhaps of gravity/contraction/release, because I am more used to weighed keys only, without the mechanical features that are on real pianos. I may be in danger of not noticing this when playing, although to me I cant see I have a problem, but how would I ever know if I am not totally used to the gravity/contraction/release aspects the person says in my original post.
Michael I have to make my choice of piano very shortly as I do not have one currently, but all this stuff about touch/tone colour/gravity etc.. release, is putting me off big time the choice I was going to go with-the CLP280 which I believe you own, would you say its not suitable as a main pratice instrument? Are the keys authentically weighed/action realistic enough to perform music to a high standard, I am more concerned about the gravity etc.. mechanical feature that will be missing in the digital-the aspect apparently examiners watch you on closely.
I apologise if this post sounds alot like another thread I started ages ago. I think perhaps diploma students may have a digital piano as a second piano to practice on as well as an upright or something. Who knows, I may have to have access to an acoustic in order to complete something like this, however I feel my playing is very good on the digital I had, I could play Chopin etudes, volodos transcriptions, passages from concertos etc.. but maybe I am wrong.
Would a similar priced upright such as Yamaha b2 be better for a pianist to practice on than a CLP280?
Thanks. MWF
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Mark,
As you say, we have been down this road before, and I gave you my personal opinions on the subject. However now I think it is time for you to consult more knowledgeable sources than the likes of me, and indeed face-to-face, not via the written medium of an Internet forum.
As far as "diploma standards" are concerned, I passed Grade 8 with distinction many years ago, but then spent a couple of decades playing the piano only occasionally (whilst continuing a career, raising a family, etc), and it's only in the past 4 years that I have got back into the piano seriously. Two years ago this went up a gear, when I started playing 20 to 25 hours/week, and having a 1hr/week lesson with a well-qualified and experienced professional piano teacher. With all this in mind, I will be entering for the first level ABRSM diploma this summer. I believe that I have it within me to reach the required standard, but this will depend on how I can prepare myself, both musically and mentally, for the 35 minute recital, sight-reading and interview elements. If I don't pass, I will of course be disappointed, but at the end of the day this is my hobby, and not my day job. I play the piano essentially for my own enjoyment: I decided to enter for the diploma in order to have a definitive goal to aim for, nothing more, nothing less.
Considering that you are in your own words "100% self taught," I think that your basic question, i.e. "Can I achieve a presentable musical standard in advanced piano repertoire practising solely on a digital piano?" can only be answered by taking some lessons from a local teacher, or perhaps an evaluation from a local professional or institution. What about the music faculty at Cambridge just down the road? Only by consulting with a professional piano teacher/professor can you have a real idea of your current level of playing, and get some proper feedback on how the whole digital/acoustic issue will (or won't) affect your future progress. In my opinion, this would be the best investment you could make towards making the right decision about which piano you should buy. Not by sitting in front of a computer screen browsing internet forums.
With best regards,
Michael B.
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Ok yes you are very wise in your comments, so I appreciate that.
Thanks alot. MWF
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I can only imagine that you would want to have several hours practice/rehearsal on the specific instrument you would be examined on. Any small nuances between your high end digital (CLP280) and their grand would be polished out by this. Frankly you would need to do this even if you were practicing daily on an acoustic grand. The likelyhood of you owning a 9' Steinway or Yamaha at home is nil. Whatever you would have would be different from the examination instrument.
Piano Technician, member Piano Technicians Guild.
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I gotta know what forum this is on.....PM me!
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The forum is Piano Street . Topic: digital vs. acoustic pianos Be aware though that the tone in this conversation is not polite. Best regards, /Richard
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Originally posted by Craigen: I can only imagine that you would want to have several hours practice/rehearsal on the specific instrument you would be examined on. Any small nuances between your high end digital (CLP280) and their grand would be polished out by this. Frankly you would need to do this even if you were practicing daily on an acoustic grand. The likelyhood of you owning a 9' Steinway or Yamaha at home is nil. Whatever you would have would be different from the examination instrument. Bully! This is only common sense. I admit that I'm as green as a new shoot of grass, but even I know that the differences between one acoustic and another is no greater than the difference between a high end digital and any other acoustic piano. Is that a run on sentence? After a visit to the link above I remembered why I never go to that site. Because you have to pay. Hey, Community ain't cheap you know!
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"but even I know that the differences between one acoustic and another is no greater than the difference between a high end digital and any other acoustic piano."
There can be a tremendous amount of difference if the piano at home is not well regulated and one goes to play for an exam on a well tuned and regulated piano. There is also a decent amount of kinesthetic difference between an upright and a grand. This is not to say insurmountable or even a bother unless one is a kinesthetic learner/player.
I've played some high end digitals and I don't like the touch as well as a properly regulated acoustic. That is just my preference though. It wouldn't have stopped me from transferring skills from one to the other.
Where the danger lies I think is in developing nuance of color and control of touch. This can't really be done on existing digitals yet.
The best advice was already given: go take a lesson or five from a professional to get proper feedback. Remember that common sense really isn't all that common.
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Thanks for more replies, in response to the above post, I feel the control of touch/nuance of colour is not a problem, because again each piano will respond differently to ones touch, and the colours etc.. produced from the piano will differ surely. As far as touch is concerned-that may be the biggest problem as obviously the CLP280 does not have a real hammer piano mechanism, only simulated, although apparently the keys are 'authentically' weighted as on a grand piano, so it may be more beneficial in the long run, as apposed to an uprights touch, since any serious exams would be on a grand piano would they not?
Thanks
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How the exams in the UK are performed is beyond my experience. I have performed in England and Europe but did not study there. When I first began teaching I even read the ABRSM guidlines to help set up my own syllabus in a more organized fashion. Here in the US a piano performance major would perform recitals on a grand piano and would likely be playing one in the applied instructor's studio and maybe in a practice room designated for piano majors. For non-piano majors (like myself) we did our piano study and proficiency tests on upright pianos. This was true both at Conservatory and at grad school (Northwestern).
I almost broke down into a small bit on how different types of people learn and how that might affect choosing acoustic v digital but felt it might be too long and not really applicable here.
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ok thanks for that. My current dilema is whether or not to choose an upright or high-end clavinova, as long as both can be performed on to an advanced standard I am not too bothered which type of piano I choose, however I am leaning still towards the CLP280 because I can play at lower volumes if needed to, instead of having to use a practice pedal on an upright-which IMO is not much quieter than when its not depressed. The advantages of the digital seem to outweigh the upright option, and I dont know how much one would have to spend to aquire a 'decent upright piano'. I am guessing around 5000 pounds, am I right? I compared the CLP270/280 to a U1/3 upright-I preferred the CLP!! I could get a used U1/3 for the same price as a new CLP280, its amazing IMO how I can actually prefer to play on a digital piano as compared to a real upright with strings etc.. but the CLP sounds and response was far beyond my expectations, playing it was a sheer delight.
Thanks MWF
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