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#665427 - 10/26/08 10:41 AM Headphones for Digital pianos
Andree Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 248
Loc: Sweden
Hello!

I have been looking for some recommendations about headphones to digital pianos, but i haven't found any helpful information. I wonder if there is someone here at this section of the forum that can help me to suggest some headphones that are to recommend for use with digital pianos. If you want you can also tell me what is to prefer, closed/open, or semi-closed/semi-open. I will use the headphones to a Roland FP7, with good pianosamplings.

Thanks
/Andrée

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#665428 - 10/26/08 01:26 PM Re: Headphones for Digital pianos
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7089
Loc: torrance, CA
I think this is the forum where you will find the biggest response to your question.

I play an FP7 through open Sennheisers. I have an older 570 set and a newer 580 set. I much prefer open phones because I can use them comfortably through longer playing sessions.

When others first try my digital with my phones, they often take them off saying that they are not working. They hear the sound but assume it can't be coming through the phones. In good open phones the sound somehow doesn't seem to come from the phones at all. I like that aspect too.
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#665429 - 10/26/08 02:07 PM Re: Headphones for Digital pianos
Diane... Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/16/06
Posts: 3332
Loc: Western Canada
Andree,

If you have an Ipod, you can use that headset!They work well cause they are light weight but the sound is unbelievable. The aren't bulky and I can remove one or and leave one in.

Someone else probably has another opinion on what they use!

Hopd this helps some!
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Jazz/Blues/Rock/Boogie Piano Teacher


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#665430 - 10/26/08 02:54 PM Re: Headphones for Digital pianos
FogVilleLad Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 4680
Loc: San Francisco
Senn's HD580's accurate, flat response made them the class of the field and a terrific buy, for the reasons turandot stated. I saw them online and in stock @$199. Unfortunately the replacement model HD600's go for c.$275 or more on eBay.

Because the 580's have been discontinued, it'd be a good idea, IMO, to call customer service to verify that the seller actually does have them *in stock*.

Senns can sound a little flat, out of the box. You can break them in by setting your media player to a comfortable listening volume and letting them play in for c.2 hours.

If you listen only occasionally or for short periods, Sony's Pro MDR-7506 can be had online for c.$100. Please note that these are "closed" 'phones. They'd be great as studio monitors, but won't be nearly as comfortable for extended playing. You can find reviews online. In general they're a little crisper than the Senns.

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#665431 - 10/26/08 05:47 PM Re: Headphones for Digital pianos
Blackbird Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/15/08
Posts: 125
Loc: Cornwall UK
Another positive for Sennheiser open headphones, though I've not tried the closed versions
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#665432 - 10/26/08 06:36 PM Re: Headphones for Digital pianos
Bunneh Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/08/08
Posts: 398
Loc: Berlin
please note that Senn's upscale headphones (and the 600 and 650 in particular) are quite hard to drive. My Senn 600s only started coming into their own once I plugged them into a headphone amp.

If you're not prepared to invest in that, other headphones might be better value for their money. The Grado iGrado and SR-125 particularly come to mind, they've been very favorably reviewed in the German Audio magazine and are easy to drive.

...and if you really want to geek out on this, www.head-fi.org is a wonderful resource ;\)
_________________________
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#665433 - 10/27/08 02:04 AM Re: Headphones for Digital pianos
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
It depends on what else is happening in the room you are playing in. If others are listening to the stereo or watching TV or pounding nails, etc. you would be better off using the Sony ones (I also use the wonderful MDR -7506 when I want to be sound isolated). The Sennheiser's however are the ultimate in sound quality and playing comfort. My HD600's alternate between use on my digital piano and Hi Fi system and are one of the most satisfying music-related purchases I ever made.

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#665434 - 10/27/08 04:02 AM Re: Headphones for Digital pianos
FogVilleLad Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 4680
Loc: San Francisco
Journey, [/b]my rig is all digital piano and computer based (with an E-mu 1212m soundcard), but the 600's play the same role for me.

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#665435 - 10/27/08 05:39 AM Re: Headphones for Digital pianos
Copilot Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/10/07
Posts: 262
Loc: Belgium, Europe
Andreé read this:

http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/6/3859.html#000010

http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/6/4232.html#000001

http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/6/4702.html#000002

http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/6/4833.html#000004

Personally i prefer the excellent SENNHEISER HD-595 (US$ 190)

In my opinion it's the best audiophile headphone that is still affordable.
Only SENNHEISERs flagship HD-650 is even better but then you must have a rather big budget of 500 US$ .....
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I love my dark rosewood Yamaha CLP-240. She's as honest with me as a loyal dog but she sounds better.

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#665436 - 10/27/08 10:55 AM Re: Headphones for Digital pianos
bitWrangler Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1785
Loc: Central TX
While Sennheiser does make good phones, there are plenty of other choices out there. Headphones, like pianos, are very much a matter of personal taste. You can find very good phones for ~$100 (e.g. Audio Technica ES7, M-Audio Q40, Equation RP21), most of which are low impedance and therefore easy to drive. Of course you can start moving up the food chain and find other very good phones. Most important thing is to decide on open vs closed and supra vs super aural (on or around the ear). If you're going to be using it for extended periods, comfort is king. Read the entire threads linked by copilot above, they have other good info.

BTW, almost any new headphone can benefit from a few hours of "burn-in" to loosen them up a bit. Also, most headphones benefit from an external headphone amp but for some (hi impedance), its a must.

Headphones and pianos are very much alike. There is an 800lb gorilla in the "high end", Sennheiser, that benefits from easy accessibility and excellent word of mouth (and very good product too, but not for all tastes). A large Japanese manufacturer, Sony, that makes occasional excellent product, generally good product, but whose sound signature is not for some. However, in between, there are many excellent brands at all price points and if you have the means to sample them, you'll be pleasantly surprised.

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#665437 - 10/27/08 11:05 AM Re: Headphones for Digital pianos
Triryche Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/11/06
Posts: 1451
Loc: Milwaukee, Wisconsin
+1 on the Sony MDR7506. ~$99

Good bang for your buck and great as entry level pro equipment.

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#665438 - 10/27/08 02:24 PM Re: Headphones for Digital pianos
Andree Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 248
Loc: Sweden
Hello everybody,

and thanks for your posts

I have been listening to your recommendations and been looking at the links that you have been giving me. Since there was a lot of good experiences about Sennheiser HD555, I was visiting the local music dealer today to check this out. I tried the headphones with Rolands FP7 and I can agree with the fact that they are good. I also compared them to AKG K240, but according to me the K240 is harder to drive, which leads to a quieter sound. However I forgot to try HD555 at a louder volume, so I have no idea how they work out in this field, if they are getting crackly or not. Is there someone which can give me an indication about this?

/Andrée

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#665439 - 10/27/08 04:59 PM Re: Headphones for Digital pianos
FogVilleLad Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 4680
Loc: San Francisco
The review on Cnet says that the 555's give speaker-like response and are the hot ticket for DVD thrill seekers. That makes me think that they have a "punchy" response. Flat response is better for both listening to and playing piano.

Only your ears can decide.

There should not be any problem with volume.

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#665440 - 10/28/08 03:17 AM Re: Headphones for Digital pianos
lizzy's dad Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/10/07
Posts: 256
Loc: Suburb of Seattle
I use a Sennheiser HD280 closed headset. Resonable price to quality ratio.

I like it a lot.

l's dad

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#665441 - 10/29/08 07:12 PM Re: Headphones for Digital pianos
Andree Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 248
Loc: Sweden
Okey, there is a lot of recommendations here at the moment. Since it's impossible to check all the good headphones that you are recommending, I would like to know if there is anybody that can give me specific user-information about Sennheiser HD555. I have read a lot of user reviews, but only from people which have used them for gaming and so on. It would be nice to hear a review from a person using these for digital pianoplaying.

/Andrée

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#665442 - 10/30/08 05:16 AM Re: Headphones for Digital pianos
Bunneh Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/08/08
Posts: 398
Loc: Berlin
What I can offer you is the ranking of one of the leading German audiophile magazines. While it won't be for piano playing specifically, it should at least give you some measure of objectivity. And it'll be miles ahead of the so-called "reviews" Cnet offers on most consumer products..

They have their rankings for Hi-Fi components as of Dec 07 online for free. It's in German, but you don't need to be proficient in the language to make sense of it: http://www.audio.de/Themenspezial/177890/aud1207Bestenliste.pdf

Headphones start on the top left of page 7, the three numbers indicate the date of the review as MM/YY ("Test"), MSRP in euros ("Preis") and points ("Punkte"), which are given for sonic quality only (comfort and value for money do not factor in).

headphones with a small red square besides their name are recommended buys due to their superior performance at their price point.

Hope this helps you in your search, though I fear it might just make you go for another round of searching...

Also, if anyone has a similar list from English-speaking respected magazines, I'd be very interested.
_________________________
aim for the moon - if you miss, at least you'll be among the stars.

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#665443 - 10/30/08 08:25 AM Re: Headphones for Digital pianos
ere Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/03/05
Posts: 109
Loc: UK
Senn HD580 are very good. Use the same drivers as HD600. Were top of the range, flagship phones. Unlike computers, hi-fi equipment does not get obsolete after a few years - hence obvious conclusion.

580 are "open design" phones - they leak sound (people in the room can hear faint sound), but on a positive side this leads to sound being "airy". Good soundstage too.

I bought mine on ebay (used) 2 years ago for £60. Head-Fi community tends to rate 555 and 595 as inferior to the 580/600.

Amplification wise - I have a £170 portable amp (Meier Corda Move), and it does improve the 580 if compared to ipod, but not so much (marginally really) compared to my soundcard or DP phone jack
_________________________
My gear: Roland FP4 digi-piano, M-audio A192 sound card , Sennheiser HD580 phones , Synthogy Ivory+ Italian Grand , soft-piano Pianoteq (highly recommended)

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#665444 - 10/30/08 10:58 AM Re: Headphones for Digital pianos
bitWrangler Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1785
Loc: Central TX
Bunneh, thanks for the chart. However, it's kinda like the Fine categories on steroids. I know that there are many folks who would take a Beyer DT880 (75 score) over a Sony SA5K (90 score) any day of the week (and would actually despise the sound signature of the Sony which is radically different than the Beyer). I guess, like Fine, its more handy to give you a rough idea of the broad quality categories. But has been mentioned previously, you really need to have a listen yourself. Interestingly, similar to pianos, if you have no real broad basis to compare to, you would be more than happy with almost any higher quality headphone. Unless you get into extremes (like the Sony/Beyer mentioned above) or start to do direct comparisons, then you pretty much can't go wrong (other than issues with comfort and ease of driving).

ere - Another important thing to note with regard to open backed phones is that not only do they leak sound out (and on some models they pump as much sound into the room as in your ears), but they also allow external sounds in. So if you are also desiring to keep the household sounds out, then they may not be the best choice.

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#665445 - 10/30/08 11:12 AM Re: Headphones for Digital pianos
Bunneh Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/08/08
Posts: 398
Loc: Berlin
Absolutely, bitWrangler. The chart helps you to pick attractive candidates for your budget and phone type preferences, but you'll have to listen to them to know what to expect.
_________________________
aim for the moon - if you miss, at least you'll be among the stars.

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#665446 - 11/01/08 08:24 AM Re: Headphones for Digital pianos
kjao Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/26/08
Posts: 16
Loc: Australia
Just want to put in a good word for Audio Technica ATH-AD700 headphone. I have got one myself. Here is a review: http://headphones.com.au/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10

Also someone above mentioned about needing a amp if the headphones have got high impedence. Can someone please tell me how "high" is high?

Thanks
Kenny

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#665447 - 11/01/08 08:54 AM Re: Headphones for Digital pianos
ere Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/03/05
Posts: 109
Loc: UK
Kjao,

As I understand it, ALL *good* headphones need amping - 500 ohm Beyers, 300 ohm Senns and even 60 ohm Grados. All benefit from a good amp. Look on Head-Fi for specific advice.
The general rule of the thumb is that under 100 ohms- no need to amp, 500ohm -definitely need an amp. But of course much depends on source (eg week ipod or powerful CD player), and the kind of sound you measure against.

To me, Senn 580 sound very good without amping from both my DP and my sound card.

Andree,

Check out Head-fi.org, I'm sure you will find a lot of detailed opinions/comparisons of senn 555. Its a great resource!
_________________________
My gear: Roland FP4 digi-piano, M-audio A192 sound card , Sennheiser HD580 phones , Synthogy Ivory+ Italian Grand , soft-piano Pianoteq (highly recommended)

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#665448 - 11/01/08 10:05 AM Re: Headphones for Digital pianos
bitWrangler Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1785
Loc: Central TX
 Quote:
Originally posted by ere:
Kjao,

As I understand it, ALL *good* headphones need amping - 500 ohm Beyers, 300 ohm Senns and even 60 ohm Grados. All benefit from a good amp.[/b]
Not true. While it may be the case that any pair of phones may benefit[/b] from a decent amp, there are plenty that will be just fine without one (to the point where depending on the quality of the amp, you'll get no audible benefit to having it actually be worse).

Even the question of how high is high really depends. Not all sources (ipod, computer, DP) drive headphones the same way so an ampless mp3 player that puts out the absolute minimum signal to try to maintain battery life will do a sucky job vs an ampless DP that's always plugged in and the designers wanted you to be able to get good sound.

Unless you know with certainty you want an amp, I'd hold off, pick the phones you like, try it without the amp, and if you're not satisfied (or love the headphones so much you want to start getting into headphones a bit more) then start researching amps. The problem is that like headphones, there are many different types of amps that have various sound signatures, do better jobs of driving certain headphones, etc, etc. Esp consider that a decent amp will often cost more than the headphones.

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#665449 - 11/01/08 11:21 AM Re: Headphones for Digital pianos
Michiyo-Fir Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/12/05
Posts: 172
I use the Shure in-ear headphones, I think all their headphones are extremely good. If you can afford it, get the SE530, but since I can't afford it, I have the SE210. They're great, when you use it on your digital piano it sounds like it's coming from the speakers.
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#665450 - 11/01/08 12:01 PM Re: Headphones for Digital pianos
ere Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/03/05
Posts: 109
Loc: UK
I didnt say "all phones", I said "all *good* phones" ;\) From what I understand there is pretty much a consensus that flagship (or near enough) phones from Beyer, Sennh, Stax, AKG, Grado, Alessandro, etc are meant to be listened through a good amp in order to really shine.

Yes, all phones work without an amp- most above flagships sound much better than ipod buds straight away, many can even sound loud without an amp; however, you wont get close to their full potential in terms of texture and resolution- without a GOOD quality stationary (non portable) amp that is.
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/ - every review starts with a mention of an amp used for listening;)
_________________________
My gear: Roland FP4 digi-piano, M-audio A192 sound card , Sennheiser HD580 phones , Synthogy Ivory+ Italian Grand , soft-piano Pianoteq (highly recommended)

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#665451 - 11/01/08 12:24 PM Re: Headphones for Digital pianos
OldFingers Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/14/06
Posts: 545
Loc: Boston, MA
Are there any wireless headphones that you would recommend?
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#665452 - 11/01/08 01:15 PM Re: Headphones for Digital pianos
portmanteau Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/24/08
Posts: 76
These fellows have a good selection of headphones and amps:

http://www.headphone.com/

You might get a better deal from them once you decide.

I usually use ear canal phones at work(shure and etymoic), but for my recent DP purchase I bought some grado SR60s. They are cheap and sound great. I don't need an amp to drive them so they don't take up much space on my music desk. Grados can be uncomfortable until you adjust the band that goes over your head. I just bent mine until it was lose enough to wear.

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#665453 - 11/01/08 07:45 PM Re: Headphones for Digital pianos
Horwinkle Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/08
Posts: 1011
For bitWrangler ... I like the comment about "loosening up" the headphones. I loosened mine up, alright. Brand-new Senn 555. Overdrive on the left/bass side busted them up. Still plays, but the speaker buzzes badly. What to do?

I'm tempted to get the Senn 280. They're sealed, which I'm not thrilled with, both for the head-press and the "can't hear anyone, even if they scream". But they have less bass response (according to headphone.com), so they'd be less likely to get fried, I think.

For OldFingers ... regarding wireless. I'd say "don't". Quality generally sucks compare to similarly priced (or even higher priced) wired phones. Are you sure you need wireless? Aren't you sitting right in front of the piano?

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#665454 - 11/01/08 10:21 PM Re: Headphones for Digital pianos
OldFingers Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/14/06
Posts: 545
Loc: Boston, MA
My situation is a little weird as I'm thinking about adding a PNOScan optical MIDI strip and stop rail to my RX-3 to drive Ivory. As Ivory resides in my IMAC, which is some distance from my keyboard, I'd have to have a long headphone cable, which kind of dangles. Going wireless would have removed a minor annoyance, but if there is a serious loss in quality, then I agree, it's not worth it.

Thanks for your advice.

Bob
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#665455 - 11/01/08 11:29 PM Re: Headphones for Digital pianos
bitWrangler Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1785
Loc: Central TX
 Quote:
Originally posted by ere:
I didnt say "all phones", I said "all *good* phones" ;\) From what I understand there is pretty much a consensus that flagship (or near enough) phones from Beyer, Sennh, Stax, AKG, Grado, Alessandro, etc are meant to be listened through a good amp in order to really shine.

Yes, all phones work without an amp- most above flagships sound much better than ipod buds straight away, many can even sound loud without an amp; however, you wont get close to their full potential in terms of texture and resolution- without a GOOD quality stationary (non portable) amp that is.
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/ - every review starts with a mention of an amp used for listening;) [/b]
I would certainly hope that ALL the above flagships sound much better than stock ipod buds \:\) . Wouldn't say much for their flagship status if they didn't. My point is that a good pair of low Z headphones can sound excellent unamped, to the point that you would have to spend a pretty decent amount of money to get an amp that will actually make a positive difference. I know head-fi.org well, I spend a lot of time there so I know what the reviews say. I've also been fortunate enough to own some decent headphones and amps. As an example, a pair of Sennheiser HD-25's unamped will be a massive step up for most folks and they are quite easily driven by most sources. Of course a $500+ headphone amp will help to bring even more out of a pair of good headphones, but hey, a Krell will bring out more of my Maggies, but that's a rather meaningless statement for all but the very fortunate few.

 Quote:
Originally posted by lhorwinkle:
For bitWrangler ... I like the comment about "loosening up" the headphones. I loosened mine up, alright. Brand-new Senn 555. Overdrive on the left/bass side busted them up. Still plays, but the speaker buzzes badly. What to do?

I'm tempted to get the Senn 280. They're sealed, which I'm not thrilled with, both for the head-press and the "can't hear anyone, even if they scream". But they have less bass response (according to headphone.com), so they'd be less likely to get fried, I think.

For OldFingers ... regarding wireless. I'd say "don't". Quality generally sucks compare to similarly priced (or even higher priced) wired phones. Are you sure you need wireless? Aren't you sitting right in front of the piano? [/b]
Bummer. If they are a lost case, I say crack them babies open and start poking around. It's a bit beyond the scope of this forum, but you can prod around with a multimeter to try to get a sense for what might have blown (or it might be blatantly obvious visually, just depends). Bop on over to head-fi.org onto the DIY forum and use the search function, you'll find lots there about strategies to find what might be wrong. If you're lucky its a simply part (e.g. resistor) that blew and you can easily replace it. Or the driver itself might have been damaged and your hosed.

Oh, and don't think that the amount of bass response in a driver has anything to do with how easily it can be over-driven into being damaged. The most anemic bass challenged headphones can be easily damaged as well.

OldFingers, yes, wireless has compromises. It's been a couple years since I paid any attention to wireless, but at that time, RF based wireless solutions had the issue of interference and a high noise floor. IR solutions were sonically better, but were more expensive and had significantly shorter range and line of sight issues. As with all things audio, you need to try some out yourself to decide if any of these short comings are relevant to you.

 Quote:
Originally posted by Michiyo-Fir:
I use the Shure in-ear headphones, I think all their headphones are extremely good. If you can afford it, get the SE530, but since I can't afford it, I have the SE210. They're great, when you use it on your digital piano it sounds like it's coming from the speakers. [/b]
The SE530's are indeed a nice set of phones (they are my current portable unamped phone and I've been using them a bit more amped at my desk at work). They are a perfect example of why one needs to listen to a bunch of phones to get a better idea of what they like. While the 530's are very nice, I find they tend towards the more "lush" side and aren't quite as detailed as I would prefer (almost like a Sennheiser 650 vs Sony SA5k difference). Once my Ety's get repaired, I will likely sell the 530's. There are those who would have the complete opposite opinion though and find the lush sounding 530's far superiour to the Etymotics (some would call them almost too analytical).

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#665456 - 11/04/08 07:53 AM Re: Headphones for Digital pianos
rodmichael Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/08/08
Posts: 334
Loc: Maryland
I'm not a headphone connoisseur but my 62 y/o ears get along fine with my Bose QC-II noise cancelling headphones which have a second job when I fly.
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Mason & Hamlin AA, SN 93018
Yamaha CGP-1000, SN UCNZ01010
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Ruben Schoutrop - Nocturne Op. 55 No. 1 in F Minor
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04/16/14 05:14 PM
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