I have a halfway decent Suzuki digital piano with a keyboard that is relatively realistic in that it doesn't give you the illusion you are playing well and then when you move to an acoustic you realize you are not in control. It is a pretty decent practice instrument. However, the samples are really lacking.

I would like to experiment with a software piano to replace the sounds on the Suzuki. What package is the best value for money, easiest, not overly system intensive that I could use to supplant the sound on my Suzuki?

Any recommendations?

Hi,
This following link (written by our member Mahlzeit) may be useful. At the very end, the related posts may be even more pertinent to your question.

http://www.pianoclues.com/2008/03/15/how-to-use-virtual-instruments-with-your-digital-piano/

you might want to try pianoteq:

www.pianoteq.com

Take a look at Modartt Pianoteq.

http://www.pianoteq.com/

It's a software modelled piano and so is a very small download (15mb or so) as compared with sampled piano software (with multi Gigabyte file sizes).

There's a lot of info on the website and a free trial version you can download.

EJR

What's your budget?

I just tried to get the trial version of pianoteq to work. It works with an unacceptable latency off of my laptop, but does not seem to work at all with the recommended audio driver (ASIO4ALL).

Looks like I will need a better computer to run this than my old Toshiba laptop...would be willing to spend a couple of hundred euros on the software piano, but it looks like the PC will cost more?

A PC is preferable, but you may be able to get away with simply purchasing an ASIO compatible audio card for your laptop. What are your latptop specs (how much ram, what CPU, what laptop model?)

Also a PC probably won't be that expensive - $250-$300 for a very decent one if you build it yourself.

Toshiba Satellite A65
Celeron 2.8 GHz, w/ 2.8 Ghx 448 MB RAM

50G free drive, 19.81 ms access, 100.75 MB/sec cache speed,

Realtek AC97 Audio

How on earth can I build my own PC?

1) For starters, try reading the following links:

Building a custom PC DAW (Digital Audio Workstation)

Tweakheadz: Building a PC DAW

There are more articles in the internet available which you can read to guide you through building your custom PC.

Next step:

2) Set a budget[/b] . Don't overspend by buying stuff you won't really use (e.g: don't buy a screaming fast videocard that will cost you more since you won't be using this PC primarily for gaming anyway)

3) Start choosing your PC components accordingly based on the following (try surfing the internet on-line from PC stores within your region/area for individual PC component price-listing, it would also help if you'd read professional tech reviews of each component if you have the time and patience):

Processor: [/b]

Intel Dual-core or Quad-core
AMD Dual-core or quad-core

> if you're not into creating/recording music with massive number of tracks (i.e. many different instrument audio tracks, VSTi tracks and vocal tracks running with a lot of real time effects or VST plug-in effects) AND would just like to run a couple of virtual piano sample libraries like Garritan, TruePianos, Pianoteq etc., then a dual-core processor is more than enough for your needs.[/b]

> in fact, an Intel Core2 Dual-core processor running at a native speed of 2.4 GHz can pretty much handle 10-20 audio tracks/VSTi tracks running simultaneously with reasonable number of effects (reverb, chorus etc.) without much sweat. Of course, your mileage might vary[/b] depending on other hardware components installed like the physical memory (i.e. DRAM memory modules), a good reliable audio-interface card (with ASIO driver support for low latency) and a fast large-capacity hard disk drive (at least a 7200 rpm drive would do just fine).

> currently, Intel's processor offering give you the best performance for your money. You can still choose AMD processors but as of now[/b] , Intel's processors based on its Core2-based microarchitecture are "king-of-the-hill".

Motherboard:[/b]

> try to get one which would offer flexibility in terms of expansion (i.e. possibility of additional components in the future):

> choose one which has at least 2-3 PCI slots plus 1 or 2 PCIe slots (for future add-on audio/ soundcard, if ever) and one which uses 1-2 PCIE X 16 slots. One PCIE x16 slot would suffice and is more than enough for your purpose of using this PC to run music-related apps.

> make sure the motherboard has at least[/b] 2 DIMM slots (i.e. memory slots) so that you can always add additional memory modules should you ever need more. Having 4 DIMM slots is better since it allows you to add memory modules later on without removing any previous memory modules installed (depends on motherboard features/limitations)

> get one with solid capacitors for extra durability (you wouldn't want to have "leaking electrolytic capacitors" 3-4 years of constant PC use down the road would you?).

Memory modules:[/b]

> get at least 2 GB of DDR2 RAM (4GB or more if you're going to use VISTA 64-BIT edition)

> for starters, and since current DDR2 memory modules are dirt cheap nowadays, you could actually get a 4GB kit (2 x 2GB memory modules) without breaking the bank

> get AT LEAST a 2GB DDR2 800 memory kit; or 4GB DDR 800 memory kit for better performance with VSTi piano sample libraries. You can also get DDR2 1066 memory kit but this would be cost slightly more than the DDR2 800 modules. You can also opt to get the newer DDR3 1333 modules but these will cost you bit more as well.

Hard Drive:[/b]

> you can live with one hard drive BUT please do partition it (at least, divide it into two volumes, if you have a 250GB drive, you can divide it into Drive C: 125 GB and Drive D: 125 GB and so on and so forth)

> OR you can get 2 separate Hard disk drives:

Hard drive #1: used by Windows XP/Vista and other essential apps

Hard drive #2: larger-capacity disk for your piano sample libraries (Garritan, TruePianos, etc.) or music-related apps (Cubase, Cakewalk Sonar, etc.)

Audio-interface card [/b] (i.e. audio-card)

> one of the reliable and affordable audio-interface cards you can get to work without a problem and with acceptable performance is the M-AUDIO 2496

> it has support for ASIO and works quite well with a lot of AUDIO-MIDI sequencer programs with VST support and with piano sample libraries.

ATX casing:[/b]

> the size would depend on the motherboard you would be using (micro-ATX or full ATX form factor) and how many hard disk drives and DVD/CD-writers you'd like to install

> you can use a MID-tower case, Full-tower case or even a rackmount case. If you're just going to use it at home, then a MID-tower case can do the job just fine.

Video-card/graphics card:[/b]

> you don't need to get the meanest/fastest card around UNLESS you're into a lot of gaming or video-related stuff (editing etc.)

> in a dedicated DAW (digital audio workstation PC) this would have to take a back-seat.

> even a simple ATI Radeon 1650 (128-bit, 256 or 512mb) PCIe video card can fit and can serve your PC DAW well.


SAMPLE CONFIGURATION[/b] for your DAW PC (click each link):

Processor: Intel E8400 (@ 3.0 GHz and FSB 1333)
Motherboard: MSI P35 Neo-3
Memory module: OCZ 2GB memory module (2 x 1 GB kit) (2 x 1GB DDR2 modules in dual-channel mode)
Videocard: ATI Radeon X1650 Pro DDR2 512 MB (128-bit)
Audio-card: M-AUDIO Audiophile 2496 or M-AUDIO 192
Hard drive: Seagate Barracuda 7200 rpm 250 GB (for OS and apps)
Seagate Barracuda 7200 rpm 320 GB (for music apps and piano sample libraries)

OR you can buy one 500GB/750GB or 1TB (terabyte) HDD and partition the disk. Check this out: Seagate Barracuda 7200 rpm (32 MB cache) (partition it so that your music apps or piano sample library would reside on a different partition from that of Windows XP/Vista)

REMEMBER: COST-EFFECTIVITY[/b]

> you can also try using Kingston Value DDR2 800 memory modules if you want to save a couple of bucks and these can be durable as well but these have slower timings but nevertheless can still get the job done.

> you can also use a 2.4 or 2.6 GHz Core-2-duo-based processor and it can still get the job done if you want to save a couple of bucks more should you find the E8400 (3 GHz) a bit pricey.

Some things to consider:[/b]

1) FSB:DRAM ratio[/b] . Ideally, for best performance it should be 1:1.

> e.g.: if your processor has a front side bus (i.e. FSB) of 1066 then it would be better if you got a DDR2 1066 memory module instead of getting a DDR2 800 memory module. But there's more to this, there is still the "timings" to consider for latency...it gets deeper so if you'd like to go all-geeky, then you might want to read about memory latency, tight timings...

> personally, I think you'd do fine with just DDR2 800. It'll run your music apps, piano softwares without a hitch.

> Don't get too overly excited about BENCHMARKS...they do their part in showing performance gains of newer PC components (processors, memory, hard drives etc.) and mind you these BENCHMARKS can fool us into thinking that buying newer hardware just for a few millisecond difference (or even 1-2 minutes difference) of achieving a certain task from the current processor that we have is enough reason to upgrade...but ask yourself this:

Can I really "feel" that 3-6 millisecond difference (when translated in real-time work experience) let alone accurately measure it while I'm all busy working or playing the piano software and happily practicing?

> But you know what, it will only make things complicated and might confuse you. Besides, the performance gain you achieve is measurable ONLY WHEN YOU USE BENCHMARKS...and you don't use benchmarks while your contently and happily playing piano sample libraries or while practicing anyway just to check if your memory modules are feeding your processors with enough data with a speed commensurate to the front-side bus speed with which your processor communicates with the system (i.e. "FSB")!

> In line with this, I also seriously doubt if piano software manufacturers would even bother mentioning that you should use at least 2GB DDR2 let alone DDR3[/b] 1333 memory modules or use this brand or that brand of memory module...in fact, if you look at the piano software websites of Garritan, Galaxy etc.
they just mention the amount of memory (DRAM) you should have...do you notice that they don't mention "USE DDR1, DDR2 or DDR3 modules". They just mention at least 2GB etc.

> for durability/quality of course, don't just get generic memory modules, but you don't have to get an overclocker friendly memory kit either and spend big-bucks for memory alone (unless your a PC-enthusiast or a hardcore gamer).


2) Always think of being COST-EFFECTIVE[/b]

> you don't need to buy a gamer's motherboard that can overclock your processor to insane speeds, that has humongous heat-pipes or that offers you bells and whistles that you won't even fully utilize in the motherboard's lifetime or for your targeted use.

> you can achieve the same target/purpose even if you don't buy the "gamer's choice/gamer edition/overclocker's choice" motherboard!

> to date you can get a stable, reliable and good performing motherboard, which would probably not top the benchmark charts, but nevertheless would give you the essential feature/functionality, relatively good performance, durability and reliability without overspending. Forget about cheap motherboards like AsRock, some ECS models, etc. I'm talking about the non-gamer versions of ASUS, MSI, ABIT, GIGABYTE or other reputable motherboard manufacturer.


3) Don't overclock[/b] :

a. remember "wear n' tear" and stress of individual PC components over time while in overclock mode
b. instability issues may crop up (PC won't boot, PC shuts down or restarts after some time, overheating problems)

> also, in line with this, while it may not be evident at the moment or for the next couple of months and while an overclocked PC might work without a glitch...as the stress within individual components accumulate, however, you might wanna think about how overclocking can potentially shorten the life-span of your processor, video-card, memory modules, motherboard chipsets and PCI card (audiocards, video-editing add-on cards etc.). Forget about water-cooling, they are bulky, expensive and can leak in time. Adding more fans to cool your overclocked PC? Consider the noise factor when adding fans and the availability of fan slots in your ATX computer case then.

c. save yourself from the headache of ruining other PC components if you don't overclock successfully and end up overclocking catastrophically (if you're not experienced enough in doing overclocks).

4) Consider your DAW PC as a form of investment:

> you've handpicked each component and intend to use it for as long as it functions or 'til the day when it can no longer run the newest version of your favorite music-related application.

Hope this helps.

Just to add to beowulfx post. For your first PC, you may find it easier to start with a "barebone kit" PC. I recommend tigerdirect for most of your purchases - they have some of the best prices (especially due to rebates), very fast shipping, and you can buy everything you need in one stop there.

Anyway - if you go there, you can browse their 'barbone kits'. Those usually include a case for your PC, and a motherboard. Sometimes they also add power supply, and a CPU. All you have to do is screw everything together. Buy some RAM, and hard-drives, and you're all set to go. Sure - it's extra work, but it's worth it, and you get the exact components you want/need.

You also learn a lot in the process, and are able to troubleshoot your computer easier in case a problem ever arises. And if something breaks in the future, you can easily replace it, because it's not proprietary hardware.

Niclas Fogwall from Modartt (Pianoteq) here.

It seems that your internal soundcard does not work well with ASIO4ALL. Acquiring a USB soundcard with native ASIO drivers might be a good idea.

With a 2.8 GHz Celeron, you should be able to run Pianoteq nicely, but for best possible performance you might need to reduce polyphony and/or internal sampling frequency. Everything depends on how vivid piano works you perform, and how frequently you are using the sustain pedal. Pianoteq is a CPU intensive software whereas the amount of RAM and disk speed is of minor importance.

You are welcome to contact the Pianoteq support team if you need further assistance.

Thanks for your input everyone! Lots to mull over here.

A different solution:

This is one I use for when I go abroad.

I take a 4 octave keyboard, plug in via the general midi connector a Roland sound module and plug that into speakers or headphones.

You can also plug the sound module directly into any TV via the Audio in socket and that way it comes straight out the TV speakers!

I picked up a Roland sound module off ebay for £35 - The SC33. The sound quality is excellent and you also have many different piano options as well as other instruments.

There's one on ebay at the moment the SC-55 which is the next one up from the SC-33.

Mark

What kind of keyboard are you using? Are its dimensions and weight such that you are able to check it in or carry it aboard on the airlines?

Hi the Keyboard I'm using is a CME M-Key - Click here

I usually check it in - but it's so light and thin - I don't think there would be a problem as hand baggage.

The advantage of this keyboard is that the joystick doesn't take up additional width as it's above the keys - so it utilises the most efficient space. I'm pretty impressed with the key action too.....I had an M-Audio 49 key keyboard but the CME is far superior.

The Roland Sound Canvas SC-33 is also very compact and weighs nothing. Word of warning though....it uses an AC power supply - thus it needs 240v - I got round this by buying an AC adaptor which changes 120v into 240v. Of course you'll only need this adaptor if you're travelling to countries that use 120v.

Finally if you do go for this option, you'll need a DC power supply for the keyboard...although if you have a laptop with you you can utilise the power from the laptop via a USB cable.

Here's your checklist:
* M-Key Keyboard £60 New
* Sound Module (SC-33 or SC-55 MK II) £35 Second Hand
* General Midi cable
* 2m Cable: 2 audio to 2 phono - Click Here

Optional:
* Headphones (if not plugging into a TV or speakers)
* DC Power supply for keyboard (if not plugging into USB of Laptop) - Click Here
* 120v to 240v power adaptor - Click Here

Hope this helps - and the sound quality really is very good. If you go for the PC/software option - remember that your limited to the quality of your sound card.

Mark

Well, this might be a solution for my "stuck in a hotel room without a keyboard" problem when on the road.

For the ideal (silent) practice instrument at home I want 88 realistic keys, stable support and pedals -- and the best sound possible. It will be interesting to see when the next generation of products from Yamaha, Roland & Kawai will bring the sound quality up to the level that the software pianos can deliver today...