I am interested in evaluating a Kawai MP8-II and/or CA71 but can find no store in my metropolitan area that stocks them or that even has any desire to do business with Kawai.

Does anyone else have the same difficulties I do trying to do business with Kawai?

Bought my CA 91 from Cherubini in Rome. Great piano, great price! Kawai dealers are few and far between compared with Yamaha, but they are worth the search, imo.

When I was searching around for piano dealers I found the Kawai only stocked at two "upmarket" piano dealers within reasonable driving distance from my home, unfortunately not the kind of dealers who would appreciate repeated visits to try out the pianos. At one of the dealers I was so subjected to high pressure selling I thought I was going to have to fight my way out of the store, I don't think they would like me to go back to have a quick tinkle on the ivories.

Back in December when I was looking for a new digital piano, Guitarcenter.com had the Kawai MP8-II listed with a "coming soon" picture, never did see an actual photo show up.

Now they list ten brands, not one Kawai at Guitarcenter.com. Looks like they don't even stock Kawais anymore.

Wonder what happened?

It sounds like I am not alone in my experience trying to buy Kawai. Problem with Cherubini and Thomann's of the world is that you have to know you want the instrument without having been able to try it.

Have you found anywhere within travelling distance that you could evaluate the piano(s) at?

I would contact Kawai direct to find out the best location for testing the models you want to try .

Yes. They direct me to the dealers that don't stock their products...

Ah - not a good sign! :rolleyes:

My guess is Kawai really don't want to sell their digital piano's. They just make DP's for fun (and accoustic's to annoy one's ears), and if they have to sell, they make fun of it by making sure they drain your time, wallet or banking account to the max.

In the last few month's I have been searching for especially the MP8 and the MP8 II extensively. As a live in a part of Holland where the majority of Dutch people are living, still I have to drive about 3 hours almost to the most southern border (it's even just a very little piece of the border which is that far) to buy an MP8 II.
In Rotterdam, where a quite good music store is located, I also tried my luck. The salesperson from the store was interested in selling Kawai DP's in the future (they have a lot of digitals but no Kawai). So he made an appointment with a representative from Kawai, the latter showed up, they made another (phone)appointment for 2 weeks later. A month after this first meeting I phoned the store, they never heard anything from Kawai after this period
Also the representative from Kawai seems to have said he would contact the store in Holland which does sell the MP8 II (I mentioned their price when I contacted the store). Why? To tell them they are selling the MP8 II for € 2349,- which is a much to low price according to Kawai. Can you believe that...?
Also check out the story from Hugh Sung on his website, after a lot of searching he found an MP8 in a store somewhere in the wilderness, a store where it seems the salesmen hardly knew the difference between a piano and dental prosthesis...

Also try counting the posts on this forum where people write something like: I've tested this DP and that DP, unfortunately the Kawai was not available.

This seems to be Kawai, marked by absence, trying to keep up an exclusive character, keeping a tight grip on pricing, or just plain stupidity?
I am almost fed up with this company, thinking about buying a Roland RD 700 SX.

I thought Kawai DP's were like the Loch Ness monster - there are a small group of people who are convinced they exist...

Lol ;-)

I have to, unfortunately, completely agree. I tried a lot and failed with buying Kawai in Poland. There is one official carrier of Kawai (with website saying "under construction"), and I failed to find even a single shop with Kawai to try-out. Being determined I have bought Kawaii from Germany on-line. But Kawai's distribution policy is far from good so to speak.


M.

GEM and Kurzweil have worse.

IMO worth it if you can find one though!

Re: Kawai - My own experience was that they look good on paper but are not at all what you expect when you are finally able to find one to audition/compare.

The piano samples in the Kawai dps are ancient sounding.

I'm lucky enough to have a knowledgeable Kawai dealer a few miles from my house. But it's worth mentioning that when I picked up my MP8ii in early January it was the only one available in the United States. I know this because the first one I bought had apparently been dropped or run over by a forklift. The dealer gave me his showroom keyboard as a replacement because nothing else would be available for many weeks.

HI,
i was lucky too. Kawai dealer 800 mt from my house and 3 piano dealers plus the official kawai store in a range of 4km!.
You may buy a ticket from Amsterdam to Milan (40 €?) and spend a day for a ful immersion incomparing DP. :-)
Stefano

Polliccio -- You are giving me dangerous ideas!!! I keep forgetting how cheap air tickets have become. I would never make it back to Amsterdam in one day -- would have to stay for at least one meal...spumante franciacorta, salumi di Milano, bresaola, risotto alla milanese, fegato alla Lodigiana, gorgonzola dolce, panadel...

...my mouth is watering. Please could you PM the address of the dealers -- and your favorite restaurants?

Uhm,
you risk to spend more in food and wine than in your DP! :-)

I sent you four addresses dowtown with (my) comments and internet urls. You may check location with any maps software.
I strongly suggest to avoid saturdays.
Good luck!

Stefano

Grazie mille!

I have a question about this.
Given that Kawai seems to be judged by a majority as having the best action (hardware) but somewhat lacking in sample quality (software), is it possible that if one buys e.g. a CA71 today that there might be improved samples offered by Kawai as they become available. Or, would those only be reserved for yet newer instruments?

I'm not convinced the Kawai action is the best, or even very good. In the models I've tried (eg CA91 and some lower-end models) the action is measureably lighter than that of Rolands or Yamahas. This may be to some people's taste, but it can create problems if you practice on it for years and then try to play a real piano with a typically heavier action.

Also the sound volume produced from a keystroke on a Kawai does not seem to follow naturally from the key velocity as on a real piano (or a Roland PHA-II action). And in the extreme case, where you press the key very, very slowly, you always hear a note on Kawai. This is not the way a real piano works.

These are just my observations, and I realize that many people speak highly of Kawai digitals.

eJohn,
interesting point.

During my quest i tested CA91, HP207 and CA280. 3 Great DPs.
In the official shop i had the opportunity to test side by side a Kawai acoustic grand Piano and the CA71 (same KB of CA91) and I was not able to feel significative differences in the keys weight

Maybe it depends from skill level ('m only aroung grade 3-4)?

I also appreciated the HP207 but not convinced by the ivory feel (there was too much friction between the surface of the key and the finger).
But as you noted probably is just a matter of personal taste...

Stefano

polliccio,
Yes, I think you are right about it being a matter of personal taste. I'm just glad that somebody makes a piano for almost anybody. And not all acoustic grand pianos have real ivory or even simulated ivory surfaces.

Regarding key weight, I always had a sense that some pianos are harder to play than others, and I found it difficult to play certain acoustic pianos after practicing on my Technics digital. But I couldn't quantify this, so I "measured" the actions by stacking quarters on the keys to find how many were required to sound a note. I found the measurements corresponded very closely to what my subjective impressions had been.

My Technics required 14 quarters, same as the Kawai CA91. The HP207 was 16 and the CA280 was 15. Most acoustics (for notes near middle C) came in between 13 and 17, but there's a lot of variation. So maybe the Kawai grand piano you tried had a somewhat lighter action.

polliccio, KAWAI have been producing acoustic pianos for over eighty years. It therefore stands to reason that KAWAI researchers would model the weight of their digital piano actions on that of the company's own acoustic pianos.

On a similar note - and without wishing to appear overly biased - KAWAI acoustic piano actions are regarded as being more responsive than those of other manufacturers, which may explain why eJohn believes that the comparable digital piano action is too light.


eJohn, while using quarters to measure the weight of an action may appear reasonably valid, this process is rather simplistic, as it fails to consider differences in static and dynamic weight.

Moreover, some digital piano manufacturers graduate the weight of an action throughout a number of zones across the keyboard, with additional weights added for counter-balancing.

The digital piano action is an incredibly complex piece of hardware, the development of which requires a considerable amount of financial investment and research time. Accurately measuring the static and dynamic weights of each key is also a complicated process, ultimately requiring a little more than a handful of coins to gauge effectively.

Kind regards,
James
x

Thanks jmbattle,
Those are great points, and I admit I don't know a lot about the details of piano actions. However the correlation between these simple measurements with quarters and my prior sense of the effort needed to play a given piano was pretty robust. So I think the quarters are at least a good first approximation. I also agree that Kawai acoustic piano actions are excellent and responsive. I don't find them to be particularly light or heavy - only the digitals are on the light side.

And my apologies to the moderator for getting off topic. This wasn't supposed to be a critique of Kawai pianos, only their distribution!

The MP8II is a very limited market item. It ways 77 lbs so is not terribly portable. It is expensive for a keyboard. It is not a typical home use instrument. It is designed for stage/studio use. This is not the kind of product you will find in a piano store.

Kawai has great distribution worldwide on its acoustic and digital pianos. Clearly not on its specialty pro equipment.

For those of you in bay area, Carnes Piano in San Jose has both the MP8II and the MP5. They also have a variety of Bluthner, Seiler, Shigeru, Kawais, Charles Walter, and the usual assortment of used pianos to compare them against.

I would argue that Kawai also has distribution problems on their acoustic and digital pianos as well. Living in a metropolitan area of millions of people, there is no where I can audition a K5 or a CA71...yet I can play and buy Yamaha in multiple outlets.

Since Holland is serviced from Germany, we are essentially ignored. Dealers only tell horror stories of their treatment by Kawai reps and avoid them like you would a bad business partner.